Junior College Players - is more than 1 new one/year really needed?

[JasonAtBradley]

I was looking at our poor depth recently, especially after the result of the Creighton-BU game. Then, I thought about how many JUCO's Jim Les has been recruiting lately. Honestly, I think that it's better to recruit a high school senior who shoots around 50% from the field and 70% from the FT line rather than a JUCO that shoots around 55% from the field and 75% from the FT line. In the short term, the JUCO player is better. However, in the long term, the high school senior is better, as it gives him 1-2 years to get acclimated to the program, and improve his stats (possibly making him better than the JUCO player that the coach considered recruiting by the time he reaches his junior year). This is especially notable when looking at the number of junior college players that have really been contributors to our team. The only two I can think of for the past 2-3 years are Theron Wilson and Will Franklin. I would much rather have a good freshman who becomes great by his junior year rather than a great JUCO, simply because it eases the transition from year to year with graduations and possibly NBA drafts. Therefore, I think that we should "acquire" no more than one JUCO player per year, with one more possibly allowed if too many of our high school recruits choose other schools.

What do you all think of this?

[MacabreMob]

Tony B, Boogie and Zach were some of my fave players in recent years.

[shaunguth]

In the short term, the JUCO player is better.

Not all the time.....see TCS/DC vs. Maniscalco.

[Braves4Life]

IMO an ideal roster should never be made up of more than 2-3 Jucos per year. Any more than that tells me that the program is struggling, or desperate for players due to losing out on the H.S. recruiting trail.

The juco recruit should be looked at as a "stop-gap" measure, or a "hired gun"; brought in as the missing piece to the puzzle to get a team "over-the-hump" so to speak.

I'd like to see our program settle in over the next few years with this kind of balance. I fear if Les cannot do this he will not be able to develop the consistency needed to keep all parties (fans and Admin.) happy.

[BradleyBrave]

Not all the time.....see TCS/DC vs. Maniscalco.

Agreed. If given a choice, I would choose the 4 year player every time. Less turnover, more continuity, more stability, and more talented. I think it's been made obvious that the more time a player spends in our system, the better he becomes and the better the system becomes. I'd much rather have guys like DR, JC, AW, and now SM and see them blossom into all-league players than JUCO guys who barely get acclimated and barely start blossoming before its time for them to graduate. It's hard to keep replacing guys like TB, WF, LW, and ZA every year or every other year. I'd rather have to worry about that every 4 years rather than every 1 or 2.

[Da Coach]

You forgot Marcellus Sommerville, Tony Bennett, Lawrence Wright and Zach Andrews who were integral parts of the Sweet 16 team, and were big contributors at Bradley, and Matt Salley.

Jim Les had signed only 1 or 2 juco players each year, and they were very good players, until this year, when he signed 4 (Wilson, Collins, Austin, and Cole-Scott). This year was unusual, though, because of the losses of Dwight Buycks, Ray Brown, DeAaron Williams, and Jeremy Fears. There simply weren't any quality players left to recruit out of high school when those scholarships were filled. So thus the late signing of a couple more jucos than was planned.

I would hate to restrict the options Jim Les could use. There are not enough good big men to go around for midmajor schools, that it is necessary to recruit the jucos. Unfortunately, good big men out of high school all too often prefer to go to major schools and ride the bench than go to schools like Bradley and play a lot.
The talent level at jucos is much greater than it was in the past, and now even high-majors like Kansas, Kentucky, Arkansas, and even Illinois recruit the better juco players regularly.
Illinois State is one of the league's top teams suddenly, and they have 6 jucos on their roster. 5 of their top 8 players are from junior college. They have built themselves into a power in the MVC with their jucos. Even Dana Altman, who rarely has had jucos for many years, has had many of them in the last couple years.

There is a place for jucos. I don't think the fact that Bradley has jucos this year is the problem. The bigger problem is that Bradley got a late start signing them because of the situation with Brown, Buycks, Williams, and Fears.

[amckillip]

Not all the time.....see TCS/DC vs. Maniscalco.

See TW vs. any freshman

[shaunguth]

See TW vs. any freshman

OK...so one out of four juco's is providing what I consider quality minutes and one out of two freshmen is providing what I consider quality minutes.

I'll take the freshmen.

[MacabreMob]

You forgot Marcellus Sommerville, Tony Bennett, Lawrence Wright and Zach Andrews who were integral parts of the Sweet 16 team, and were big contributors at Bradley, and Matt Salley.

Jim Les had signed only 1 or 2 juco players each year, and they were very good players, until this year, when he signed 4 (Wilson, Collins, Austin, and Cole-Scott). This year was unusual, though, because of the losses of Dwight Buycks, Ray Brown, DeAaron Williams, and Jeremy Fears. There simply weren't any quality players left to recruit out of high school when those scholarships were filled. So thus the late signing of a couple more jucos than was planned.

I would hate to restrict the options Jim Les could use. There are not enough good big men to go around for midmajor schools, that it is necessary to recruit the jucos. Unfortunately, good big men out of high school all too often prefer to go to major schools and ride the bench than go to schools like Bradley and play a lot.
The talent level at jucos is much greater than it was in the past, and now even high-majors like Kansas, Kentucky, Arkansas, and even Illinois recruit the better juco players regularly.
Illinois State is one of the league's top teams suddenly, and they have 6 jucos on their roster. 5 of their top 8 players are from junior college. They have built themselves into a power in the MVC with their jucos. Even Dana Altman, who rarely has had jucos for many years, has had many of them in the last couple years.

There is a place for jucos. I don't think the fact that Bradley has jucos this year is the problem. The bigger problem is that Bradley got a late start signing them because of the situation with Brown, Buycks, Williams, and Fears.

DC... that is the real story.

And it makes too much dang sense.

So stop it will ya... where is the fun in reading/posting on a message board when you swoop in too early with the real story on it all?

End of story.... next topic.

[shaunguth]

You forgot Marcellus Sommerville, Tony Bennett, Lawrence Wright and Zach Andrews who were integral parts of the Sweet 16 team, and were big contributors at Bradley, and Matt Salley.

Jim Les had signed only 1 or 2 juco players each year, and they were very good players, until this year, when he signed 4 (Wilson, Collins, Austin, and Cole-Scott). This year was unusual, though, because of the losses of Dwight Buycks, Ray Brown, DeAaron Williams, and Jeremy Fears. There simply weren't any quality players left to recruit out of high school when those scholarships were filled. So thus the late signing of a couple more jucos than was planned.

I would hate to restrict the options Jim Les could use. There are not enough good big men to go around for midmajor schools, that it is necessary to recruit the jucos. Unfortunately, good big men out of high school all too often prefer to go to major schools and ride the bench than go to schools like Bradley and play a lot.
The talent level at jucos is much greater than it was in the past, and now even high-majors like Kansas, Kentucky, Arkansas, and even Illinois recruit the better juco players regularly.
Illinois State is one of the league's top teams suddenly, and they have 6 jucos on their roster. 5 of their top 8 players are from junior college. They have built themselves into a power in the MVC with their jucos. Even Dana Altman, who rarely has had jucos for many years, has had many of them in the last couple years.

There is a place for jucos. I don't think the fact that Bradley has jucos this year is the problem. The bigger problem is that Bradley got a late start signing them because of the situation with Brown, Buycks, Williams, and Fears.

Good post. It doesn't happen as often as it has this season and there were definitely circumstances that caused us to go the late juco route. That said, it is my personal preference to get four-year players as opposed to jucos. I wouldn't mind one or two jucos, but I hope we don't end up with three or four on a consistent basis.

[BradleyBrave]

OK...so one out of four juco's is providing what I consider quality minutes and one out of two freshmen is providing what I consider quality minutes.

I'll take the freshmen.

Agree 100%. Successful programs (keyword being 'programs', i.e. meaning not a winning season here or there, but year after year) are built on the backs of the 4 year player. Yes, JUCO's have a place - that place should be as a stop-gap or immediate-need type player. We've bemoaned on this board time and again how JUCO's are so hit or miss. I think this year's team is a perfect example of that. Heck, our best team in the JL era was anchored by a 4-year seven footer, a 4-year point guard, and a 4- year big guard. Yes, we started 2 JUCO's, but I don't even really consider Sommerville a JUCO player because he went DI out of HS. Yes, we've done well with JUCO's, but I think we all would rather get kids like TB, WF, LW, ZA, and TW as freshmen and have them for 4 years rather than two. To become the conference power we want to become, we cannot continue to have so much turnover year after year. It makes Jim's job as a coach that much more difficult.

[Da Coach]

Good post. It doesn't happen as often as it has this season and there were definitely circumstances that caused us to go the late juco route. That said, it is my personal preference to get four-year players as opposed to jucos. I wouldn't mind one or two jucos, but I hope we don't end up with three or four on a consistent basis.

I agree, and I know it is also Jim Les' preference. The coaching staff has spent almost all their effort and time recruiting high school and prep school kids. Chris Roberts is a freakish athlete, and they felt he was too good to wait on, and Dodie Dunson was not a typical juco player, like Marcellus. If they sign another juco, it will be only because the quality of kid out of high school just isn't there. But I know they would rather get the 4-year kid.

I am not making excuses, but I hope fans realize just how hard recruiting is for Bradley, and what a great job this staff is doing. Believe it or not, despite the Sweet 16 run, the majority of kids, even Illinois kids, do not even know where Bradley is located, and many have never heard of Bradley, nor thought of wanting to go there before they are contacted by the coaches. That is like starting 1/2 mile behind everyone else in the 1 mile run.

[TheAsianSensation]

The problem is the shuttling in and out of players without ever playing in a game for us. Jucos should be a stopgap.

Another reason I'm not a fan of the direction of the program - we need to find some stable ground in this regard. This can't be healthy longterm.

[BradleyBrave]

The problem is the shuttling in and out of players without ever playing in a game for us. Jucos should be a stopgap.

Another reason I'm not a fan of the direction of the program - we need to find some stable ground in this regard. This can't be healthy longterm.

I think the foundation is getting more stable. Maniscalco, Warren, Egolf, and Thompson are a great foundation IMO. McCain looks to be another solid 4 year player. The 08-09 class will be very important in that regard. If we can fill that class with predominantly 4 year players, we'll have a roster of mostly 4 year players, anchored by a veteran group that's been in the system for 2-3 years.

[Braves4Life]

Illinois State is one of the league's top teams suddenly, and they have 6 jucos on their roster. 5 of their top 8 players are from junior college. They have built themselves into a power in the MVC with their jucos.

Whoa......hold on there big fella! Let's not get carried away! No one calls ISU a power around here!