Travesty...ESPN's Top 25 College Players of All Time

[tornado]

As I have always said, I guess anyone is entitled to any opinion they want, no matter how absolutely asinine it is.

ESPN is counting down the Top 25 College Basketball players of all time.
I don't expect there to be a whole bunch of Valley players in there, but I guess I did expect a little reason and fairness.

But the guy (or guys) who are making the calls on this Top 25 countdown have to be under 16 and
maybe can be excused for not knowing the difference between Bill Bradley and Larry Bird.

Check this out.......

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3230172

They have counted down all the way to #7...and Larry Bird is at #9!
Seriously, Bird is ranked #9, so these guys obviously think there are 8 guys who they think were better college basketball players than Bird was.

I guess there goes their credibility, as clearly Larry was easily one of the top 3 or 4 ever, with Oscar Robertson being one of the other among the top 4.
(which then should give the Valley 2 of the top players)
(no doubt what hurts Magic and MJ is that they left college early and didn't accumulate career stats)
I know there will differing opinions, but let's just see.....
is there anyone who thinks Bird isn't inside the Top 8??

[Lakeview Brave]

Bradley did take a mediocre team to the final four, i think he deserved to be in the top 10. I would think the BIG O, Bill Russell, Lew Alcindor, Bill Walton and Pistol Pete will make up the top 5 in some order. If I had to bet, I would say Alcindor is 1. Which one of these guys doesnt deserve to be in the top 5?

[MacabreMob]

What about Kareem Abdul-Jabbar??? Nobody mentioned that name?





Just kidding... but kinda wondering if they will use Alcindor or Kareem... LOL!

[Beninator]

Christain Laettner at number 12 is a little on the high side as well considering the players listed from 13-25.imo I wonder where Bob Cousey will rank?

[Braves4Life]

Sampson, Bird and Laettner are the most glaring. No way Laettner should be that high; Sampson should definately be top 10; Bird top 5. David Thompson WAS that good (IMO).

Might Danny Manning make the top 6? In my book I'd go with:

1) Big O
2) Walton
3) Alcindor
4) Bird
5) Maravich

[Lakeview Brave]

Sampson, Bird and Laettner are the most glaring. No way Laettner should be that high; Sampson should definately be top 10; Bird top 5. David Thompson WAS that good (IMO).

Might Danny Manning make the top 6? In my book I'd go with:

1) Big O
2) Walton
3) Alcindor
4) Bird
5) Maravich

I think when you are ranking these guys you can use two measures. One is stats and the other is how thier teams did/championships. Walton, Alcindor had both states and multiple championships. I think one of these guys has to be number won based on thier winning percentage + stats. Pete and Big O both had amazing stats better than almost anyone ever and Big O made it to the final four twice. Bird had great stats and one final apperance but IMO does not match Russell who won two championships with San Francisco and had better stats.

[Da Coach]

Might Danny Manning make the top 6? In my book I'd go with:

If he is, I would be suspect of that choice. Manning got a couple Player of the Year awards in 1988, but most of the National Player of the Year awards that year went to Hersey Hawkins, and Hawk's career numbers are way better than Manning's.

[tornado]

Sampson, Bird and Laettner are the most glaring. No way Laettner should be that high; Sampson should definately be top 10; Bird top 5. David Thompson WAS that good (IMO).

Might Danny Manning make the top 6? In my book I'd go with:

1) Big O
2) Walton
3) Alcindor
4) Bird
5) Maravich

There is no doubt that Pistol, Walton, Oscar, and Alcindor will be in the remaining picks, but I agree on Laettner.
He hit one great shot in his life, then was less than mediocre in the pros.
The team he played on won the national championship, but just barely on that fortunate shot, but the guy had several other all Americans on the team with him.

My point about Bird, is that he was good enough to single handedly carry a completely average team to the title game.

[Dallas Brave]

Sampson, Bird and Laettner are the most glaring. No way Laettner should be that high; Sampson should definately be top 10; Bird top 5. David Thompson WAS that good (IMO).

Might Danny Manning make the top 6? In my book I'd go with:

1) Big O
2) Walton
3) Alcindor
4) Bird
5) Maravich

That's a pretty good list. Two MVC players as well!!!

[Beninator]

There is no doubt that Pistol, Walton, Oscar, and Alcindor will be in the remaining picks, but I agree on Laettner.
He hit one great shot in his life, then was less than mediocre in the pros.
The team he played on won the national championship, but just barely on that fortunate shot, but the guy had several other all Americans on the team with him.

My point about Bird, is that he was good enough to single handedly carry a completely average team to the title game.

Personally, I liked Bobby Hurley on those Duke teams better than Laettner.
I also agree with your opinion about Larry Bird. I saw the Indiana State teams with Bird at the Fieldhouse. Bird was incredible. I also saw the Sycamores the following year at the Fieldhouse. They were a very average team.

[houstontxbrave]

I want to say I am not a fan of Laettner's nor in the least a fan of any Duke Basketball team, and I am not writing to defend Laettner but please his numbers, awards and success in college are deserving of atleast number 12 all time but more likely much higher.

He played and started in 4 consecutive final fours. Runner up once, Winning twice.

He holds the following NCAA tourney records:

NCAA Tournament Records Held:

Most points scored: 407
Most free throws made: 142
Most free throw attempts: 167
Most games played: 23

He was voted the following:

1992 USBWA College Player of the Year
John R. Wooden Award 1992

Naismith College Player of the Year 1992
NABC National Player of the Year 1992
The Sporting News National Player of the Year 1992
AP National Player of the Year 1992
Scripps-Howard National Player of the Year 1992
ACC Male Athlete of the Year 1991, 92
ACC Men's Basketball Player of the Year 1992
ACC Tournament MVP 1992
NCAA Basketball Tournament Most Outstanding Player 1991
NCAA East Regional Most Outstanding Player 1990, 92

He averaged 16.6 per game and 7.7 rebounds per game and is the all-time three-point shooting percentage leader at Duke with 48.5%. He averaged 80.6% from the free throw line, 57.4% from the field. Scored over both 2000 points and had over 1000 rebounds.

Yes he is remembered for the shot versus Kentucky, but he had to make the shot and he also made a huge shot to beat UCONN. And countless other huge high pressure shots during his career.

I know he was a cocky arrogant jerk when he played at Duke and he was not much of an NBA player, but his success in college is virtually unrivaled. He is purely by success as a college basketball player top ten all time minimum.

[tornado]

Well, the ESPN list is done................

Here is how they finally ended up...........

1-Kareem Jabbar
2-Oscar Robertson
3-Bill Walton
4-Bill Russell - should have been higher, would have eaten Walton for lunch!
5-Pete Maravich
6-Jerry West
7-Bill Bradley
8-David Thompson
9-Larry Bird
10-Wilt Chamberlain
11-Jerry Lucas
12-Christian Laettner
13-Michael Jordan'
14-Elvin Hayes
15-Magic Johnson
16-Patrick Ewing
17-Tom Gola
18-Ralph Sampson
19-Elgin Baylor
20-Bob Kurland
21-Tim Duncan
22-Austin Carr
23-Calvin Murphy
24-David Robinson
25-George Mikan

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3230172

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.........here's mine.......

Larry Bird put an entire mediocre team on his back and personally carried them for years all the way to the title game.
He is the best ever, recall that as good as Jabbar and Walton were, they had 6-8 McDonalds AA's and College All Americans on the teams with them, something Bird did have the luxury of.

Bill Bradley was good, but come on....better than Larry Bird??
Better than Wilt Chamberlain??
Does anyone see just a little bit of the age old and oft proven east coast
BIAS that goes with everything ESPN ever does??

Unfortunately most of the best 20 or so college players were NOT from the east coast, but by placing players like Bill Bradley, David Thompson, Christian Laettner a whole lot higher than I'd have placed them (and interestingly a whole lot higher than others have placed them) then it at least puts a few easterners in the mix.

http://www.cardchronicle.com/story/2007/11/13/135115/36

http://www.americasbestonline.net/index.php/pages/top100collegebasketballplayers.html

[RaiderOfBradley]

Hello all,

Well, the list isn't bad overall. I had some thoughts, though.

What Bill Bradley and Christian Laettner are doing on this list is beyone me. I think James Worthy and Danny Manning were two choices who deserved to be on there more than those two.

Chamberlain isn't ranked higher because he left school to join the Globetrotters. He could have been one of the most dominant collegiate players ever if he had stayed in school and not pursued the almighty dollar.

The thing about lists, though, is that they are subjective. It makes for good argument and conversation and, since we're talking about it here, it's done the job.

[tornado]

I agree...the guys, like Magic Johnson and Isiah Thomas (who was amazingly left off altogether)
clearly were penalized for leaving early and therefore shortening their career stats.

BUT-- I offer this argument.....that ESPN proposes this list to be the
"GREATEST PLAYERS IN COLLEGE BASKETBALL"

AND...personally I believe greatness can be seen and recognized even in less than four years of college....
since guys like Russell, Chamberlain, and others didn't play four years in college either.

Wilt Chamberlain averaged 30 ppg in his final season at Kansas, and Russell averaged only 20.7 at San Francisco....
but Russell gets the higher nod because of the championships, obviously.
Maravich, however, gets the higher nod purely because of the stats....so I observe the ESPN people seem to be going both ways with this.
Calvin Murphy scored 42 ppg in his senior year and didn't have a lot of help on his squad, so does he get the boost that Pete gets for scoring or the penalty Isiah obviously gets for lack of longevity, or the limitation that Ralph Sampson obviously got nailed with for never winning a championship?

I can't argue their opinions on this, but I feel if you have any basketball savvy at all, you can see the greatness
without watching them for four full years and without seeing them in a championship.
Therefore, I'd have put Jordan, Isaih, Magic, Bird, Mikan, David Robinson, and Chamberlain higher....
and I'd put Kareem, Walton, Bradley, Thompson, and Laettner lower.


So here would be my list even if nobody cares...and some college stats added......

1-Larry Bird - 3 seasons, 30.3 ppg, 13.3 rpg, 4.6 apg
2-Bill Russell - 3 seasons, 20.7 ppg, 20.3 rpg
3-Oscar Robertson - 3 seasons, 33.8 ppg, 15.2 rpg, 4.8 apg
4-Michael Jordan - 3 seasons, 17.7 ppg, 54% FG shooting
5-Wilt Chamberlain - 2 seasons, 29.9 ppg, 18.3 rpg, and believe it or not 62% FT shooting
6-Kareem Jabbar - 3 seasons, 26.4 ppg, 15.5 rpg
7-Magic Johnson - 2 seasons, 17.1 ppg, 7.6 rpg, 7.9 apg
8-Pete Maravich - 3 seasons, 44.2 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 5.1 apg
9-Jerry West - 3 seasons, 24.8, 13.3 rpg (how many people realized how great his rebounding stats were?)
10-Bill Walton - 3 seasons, 20.3 ppg, 15.7 rpg
11-George Mikan - four seasons, 19.1 ppg, changed the game entirely from a small man's game (Squeaky Melchiorre-style) to a big man's game
12-David Robinson - four seasons, 21.0 ppg, 10.3 rpg
13-Elvin Hayes - 3 seasons, 31.0 ppg, 17.2 rpg
14-Patrick Ewing - 4 seasons, 15.3 ppg, 9.2 rpg
15-Bill Bradley - 27 ppg over 3 seasons, against clearly weaker competition than anyone else on this list, drafted in 2nd round by Knicks!
16-Isiah Thomas
17-Ralph Sampson
18-Jerry Lucas
19-Elgin Baylor
20-David Thompson
21-Christian Laettner - 4 seasons, 16.6 ppg, 7.6 rpg, surrounded by numerous other future NBAer's
22-Tim Duncan
23-Calvin Murphy
24-Bob Kurland
25-Hersey Hawkins - four seasons, 24.1 ppg, 3008 career points

[Chico]

The Hawk belongs on that list.