If Drake wins the MVC Regular Season...

[BradleyBrave]

...as it looks like they will, that would mean that every MVC team with the exception of Missouri St (who has made 5 title games since '96) would have won either the regular season title or conference tournament since BU last won either of them (BU's last title of any kind was the 1996 regular season).

Drake - '08 Regular Season
ISU - '98 Regular Season/Conference Tournament
CU - '07 Conference Tournament
SIU - '07 Regular Season
MSU - 5 title games since '96
WSU - '06 Regular Season
UNI - '04 Conference Tournament
INSU - '01 Conference Tournament
UE - '99 Regular Season

Looking at things from a 'big picture' perspective, that is very, very upsetting. Of course there are reasons here or there why we didn't win either the regular season or conference title, but up until about 10-12 years ago, we were tied for the most conference titles of any league member with 6. Since then, we've been blown away by SIU and CU. I guess if anything, it shows how far BU has fallen from the league's elite in the last decade. I would like to think that we're on our way back up, especially with the new facilities coming, but only conference championships will truly show if that's the case.

I'm not posting this to be negative, just maybe to get people's thoughts on how we got to this point, and how we get back to being among the league's elite. We're certainly due to win the thing, that's for sure.

[ph]

My guess why: 10 years too late for finally razing Robertson and improving the facilities.

Unfortunatley, it took 10 years for the donors (who rightfully loved Robertson) to realize that it had to go.

[BradleyBrave]

My guess why: 10 years too late for finally razing Robertson and improving the facilities.

Unfortunatley, it took 10 years for the donors (who rightfully loved Robertson) to realize that it had to go.

I have no doubt that is part of it, but I think it's a much smaller part of it than some want to acknowledge. We've had plenty of good players - players good enough to win a conference title or conference tournament - in those 10-12 years.

[Double D]

IMO we need to thank SIU and especially Creighton (private school in a public facility) for defining what BU fans want and expect.

I think for many years those who were passionate about BU hoops were perceived as out of step with what BU could acheive. They were told things like you can't expect to be ranked or considered a "top" team, those days are gone, etc.

But, the upswing in the Valley as a whole but more specifically the consistent sucess (top of the conf., tournament championships, NCAA wins, etc.) of the two named above has given us a template for "success."

I still believe the level of passion for BU hoops in Peoria along with our history give us an edge. Those things along with our facilities upgrade and hopefully a long tenured coach will give us a much better chance at winning the way that we feel like we should.

[real fan]

I believe we would have won several conference championships had we not lost O"Bryant,Tucker, and Granger; when you lose good players like those 3 it makes it almost impossible as you cannot replace those types of players; if Pat had stayed no one would be able to stop us and we would win the championship easily.

[BradleyBrave]

I believe we would have won several conference championships had we not lost O"Bryant,Tucker, and Granger; when you lose good players like those 3 it makes it almost impossible as you cannot replace those types of players; if Pat had stayed no one would be able to stop us and we would win the championship easily.

Every school loses people. CU has been losing people for a decade and is still winning conference titles. Same with SIU. That doesn't hold much water IMO. We've had plenty of good players during that time period.

How can you say we would have won the conference easily with POB? I'm not saying we wouldn't have won it, but we didn't come close to winning the regular season title with him, and SIU was one of the best teams in America last year. Perhaps this year would have been 'the year' had he stayed, but it was supposed to be 'the year' without him too.

[Double D]

I believe we would have won several conference championships had we not lost O"Bryant,Tucker, and Granger; when you lose good players like those 3 it makes it almost impossible as you cannot replace those types of players; if Pat had stayed no one would be able to stop us and we would win the championship easily.

Obviously you can't control the POB deal, but the other two defections related directly to a coaching change.

That just puts more honus on the tenure of your coach (ala Altman and the Weber decendants).

I think if JL stays (I think he will) along with the new facilities give us a much greater chance at those conference and tourney championships that BB covets.

[Bravesfan]

...as it looks like they will, that would mean that every MVC team with the exception of Missouri St (who has made 5 title games since '96) would have won either the regular season title or conference tournament since BU last won either of them (BU's last title of any kind was the 1996 regular season).

Drake - '08 Regular Season
ISU - '98 Regular Season/Conference Tournament
CU - '07 Conference Tournament
SIU - '07 Regular Season
MSU - 5 title games since '96
WSU - '06 Regular Season
UNI - '04 Conference Tournament
INSU - '01 Conference Tournament
UE - '99 Regular Season

Looking at things from a 'big picture' perspective, that is very, very upsetting. Of course there are reasons here or there why we didn't win either the regular season or conference title, but up until about 10-12 years ago, we were tied for the most conference titles of any league member with 6. Since then, we've been blown away by SIU and CU. I guess if anything, it shows how far BU has fallen from the league's elite in the last decade. I would like to think that we're on our way back up, especially with the new facilities coming, but only conference championships will truly show if that's the case.

I'm not posting this to be negative, just maybe to get people's thoughts on how we got to this point, and how we get back to being among the league's elite. We're certainly due to win the thing, that's for sure.

Agreed, but I'll gladly trade a Valley championship for another Sweet 16 run as we had in 2006. Granted, winning the Valley regular season and/or tournament makes making the NCAA Tournament much easier. But I think that being a fifth place team making the tournament shows us how strong the Valley has become. Now the fifth place team from the Valley won't earn an at-large bid in most years, but my point is we don't have to win the conference every year. Finishing at least second each year though should make things a lot easier in terms of making the tournament.

[TheAsianSensation]

This year is sort of a punt with the Ruffin injury - it's clear we'd have some of those losses back if we were at full strength.

You also can't predict things like losing an MVC player to the NBA lottery as a sophomore. But I suppose it was a fair trade

[BradleyBrave]

This year is sort of a punt with the Ruffin injury - it's clear we'd have some of those losses back if we were at full strength.

You also can't predict things like losing an MVC player to the NBA lottery as a sophomore. But I suppose it was a fair trade

I don't think it's a 'punt'. We should have won 2-3 more games, Ruffin or no Ruffin. That would give us a 2 seed at the very least, and a shot at Drake had we hung on against them.

Was it a fair trade? I'd trade that one win over Pitt for potential national rankings, potential conference titles, and potential 3 straight NCAA's with potential wins in the tournament with POB for 4 years. The win over Pitt was great, and that week was something I will never forget. But without that game by POB he likely stays all 4 years, and our program may have become the elite team in the league. But, who knows. SIU was a powerhouse last year, and Drake is destiny's darling this year. 'Ifs' and 'buts'. Let's just win tomorrow and keep this thing pointing upwards.

[BradleyBrave]

Jim Molinari - Through 6 years

Took over a program coming off 2 straight 20 loss seasons

MVC record: 63-45 (.583)
1 MVC title
1 COY Award
2 second-place finishes
1 MVC Championship game (0-1)
2 NIT (3-2)
1 NCAA (0-1)
1 NBA player (Anthony Parker)

Jim Les - Through 6 years

Took over 9-20 team, 1 year removed from 2nd place finish and MVC title game appearance

MVC record: 49-55 (.471)
0 MVC titles
0 COY awards
0 top-three finishes
1 MVC Championship Game (0-1)
1 NIT (1-1)
1 NCAA (2-1)
2 NBA players (Danny Granger, Patrick O'Bryant)

Jim needs to do better. One weekend in March of 2006 shouldn't cover up the fact that we're not moving upwards in our conference. We should have won a conference title by now, or at least finished in the top 3. This level of performance among our MVC peers is unacceptable, and needs to change in a hurry. An MVC Tournament win this year would help.

[Rusty 54]

What level was the Valley at during Molinari's time? With Creighton and Southern being very strong programs During Les' years, and the Valley as a whole being highly regarded at least in terms of mid-major conferences, was the Valley as strong when Molinari was here?

[georgethedog]

What level was the Valley at during Molinari's time? With Creighton and Southern being very strong programs During Les' years, and the Valley as a whole being highly regarded at least in terms of mid-major conferences, was the Valley as strong when Molinari was here?

Don't forget the great Tulsa teams of the Moinari era! They were as good as SIU has been.

[BradleyBrave]

What level was the Valley at during Molinari's time? With Creighton and Southern being very strong programs During Les' years, and the Valley as a whole being highly regarded at least in terms of mid-major conferences, was the Valley as strong when Molinari was here?

Great point on Tulsa. They were every bit as good as SIU is now. They were a ranked team that made the Sweet 16 back then before leaving the MVC. Yet, we were able to still win the league title in '96.

The MVC was not as strong back then as it is now. But, everything is relative. We weren't is as bad of shape when Les took over as when Mo took over (Les even said at his opening press conference that the cupboard wasn't barren). Since Les took over downtrodden programs Northern Iowa, Wichita St, and Drake have all elevated themselves past BU to win either the conference tournament or regular season title while we still haven't finished higher than 4th. I think that speaks for itself. We need a conference tournament title this year to be able to say this thing is on the right track.

[ghunt]

Agreed, but I'll gladly trade a Valley championship for another Sweet 16 run as we had in 2006. Granted, winning the Valley regular season and/or tournament makes making the NCAA Tournament much easier. But I think that being a fifth place team making the tournament shows us how strong the Valley has become. Now the fifth place team from the Valley won't earn an at-large bid in most years, but my point is we don't have to win the conference every year. Finishing at least second each year though should make things a lot easier in terms of making the tournament.

Contemplating the current state of affairs made me think about a similar comments a few weeks ago. Look at the realistic odds of the the 5th place team in this conference even making the NCAA again, yet alone putting in a Sweet 16 run--it is pretty, pretty, slim. So, nothing personal, but that statement is a red-herring and pretty much moot--it just isn't going to fly. Either the regualr season title or the tourney title are almost the only ways to get to the NCAA, or if the same team does both, a 2nd place finish in some years gets one in (maybe not even this year), and once in a blue-moon, the 3rd place team makes it. Consider the last time we even finished 2nd, or even 3rd.

In the interest of trying not to be too negative, I had deleted some postings I made on this current theme. I am trying not to go in a certain direction on my opinion for a variety of reasons. However, just think what it would mean if we consider the building of the new facilities as something of a new starting point for the current staff, and the number of years we would "wait for results" after the building. Also, look at what we have in terms of the system in combination with players for the next two years--domination of the conference is not going to happen. Suffice it to say that the wait and see approach may, just may, be risking another five-plus years of mediocrity whereby we risk going three decades without a MVC tourney title and two without a confernce title. We, believe it or not, are on the cusp of the worst period in the program (in terms of conference performance)--the only saving grace has been the Sweet 16 appearance. And, although on the balance that was by far a positive, it may have been, in a strange way, in some fashion, a complication for determining the direction of the program when it may have just been a "one-off" experience.

I'm worried that there is fatigue at more than one level of this program--a tired shooting guard being forced to guard centers and power forwards, bench players whom do not know their roles and are suffering from up-and-down playing time and expectaions, a point guard that has been injured and has played as though the weight of the whole team's performance rests on his shoulders, a coaching staff that probably knows the pressure that is starting to mount, an offensive system that is highly suspect, a roster that plays the guards a large number of minutes, and a fan base that is frustrated.

Let's just hope the guys put together one heck of a run this year. Winning can heal a lot of problems, but therein lies the issue--we need to win. But, something doesn't create itself, there are steps and foundations to winning, and those just are not in place yet.

Please guys, we all know it's possibe, let's get it on, let's go BU!