Wessler 12/30

[Scouter]

And yet there are apparently people at the PJS and even some on this board, who not only expect, but DEMAND that Jim Les must make such a statement, or they consider him to be lying.
Again, note the exact language Coach Les used...
"Les told a Journal Star reporter he probably wouldn't know Ruffin's status until Saturday. When pressed, the coach refused to rule out Ruffin as a possible participant in the game."

......so how is this a lie?...it fits precisely with every other statement that comes from Jim Les, BU, or the team doctors.

And to confirm it...even Dave Reynolds agrees totally in his column...
"as of late Friday afternoon, Ruffin's status was still uncertain for today's Missouri Valley Conference opener"
"he wasn't willing to count out Ruffin"
"I never rule out anything," Les said. "We're taking it one day at a time with Daniel."

seems everyone is saying the same thing, so I see no lies here at all.

This statement after Saturday's game by Crouch, which by the way has already been cited, contradicts what Les said to Reynolds on Friday and appeared in Saturday's paper (which is a pre-game story and not a column, tornado. There's a big difference between the two.)

Ruffin's teammates learned Thursday they would be without their leader for an extended period, senior guard Jeremy Crouch said.

Make what you want out of it. I take it as a lie because he told the team Thursday that Ruffin would be out, then JL talked to Reynolds the next day and said he wouldn't count Ruffin out.
Now, tornado has already explained to us that he doesn't believe this part of the story because it doesn't have direct quotes and apparently has a preposterous definition of paraphrasing (I checked my course catalog for this semester and Bradley is offering three sections of Journalistic Writing courses. PM me if you want more info on it, tornado. I think it could really help you out.)

Also, someone brought up the Manual Cass incident, which I've heard of but wasn't here to understand everything that happened from it. I will ask this, though -- if you choose not to believe the PJS or any other media outlet for "lying" or providing faulty information on a story, couldn't you say the same thing about Jim Les after this incident? Couldn't you say the same thing about anyone if they lied to you?

[Buesch N Chips]

You are so right Average Joe. Dick L though was a real Bradley fan. I know Theobald wasn't and I have my doubts about KW.

I really think KW is a Bradley fan, or tries to be, but I don't think he and Les have ever thought much of each other.

Also, Les keeps his cards very close to his vest, and in interviews he never really says anything of substance beyond standard coach talk, which is not good if you are a writer looking for a scoop. As a result, he's not gonna be a media darling.

[MacabreMob]

...and I have my doubts about KW. (being a Bradley fan)

No, wait... KW is a grad... that means he is a fan. A REAL fan.

[bigdaddystuck]

I guess the biggest thing to take away from this thread is that a lot of people here think it's OK to lie publicly.

So it is ok to lie as long as it isn't publicly?!?

JL has no responsibility to the media to tell them the status of a player. His job is to prepare the team and get them ready to play, not worry about the questions of a reporter. I am sure the team figured out that DR wouldn't be playing much or at all when SM was at the point most of the week leading up to the game, so I don't think JL lied to his team.

[tornado]

So it is ok to lie as long as it isn't publicly?!?.....

Ok, hopefully for the last time...

Please cite or show ONE quote from Jim Les that you consider a lie.

Don't give me someone else's paraphrase or a third hand description of what a couple people mighta said in a closed practice...
Please....just ONE actual quote from any reliable source...

I expect nobody will be able to, so unless someone can comply, I am thinking of closing this thread and disallowing false & unfounded accusations of lying.

[Braves4Life]

Ok, hopefully for the last time...

Please cite or show ONE quote from Jim Les that you consider a lie.

Don't give me someone else's paraphrase or a third hand description of what a couple people mighta said in a closed practice...
Please....just ONE actual quote from any reliable source...

I expect nobody will be able to, so unless someone can comply, I am thinking of closing this thread and disallowing false & unfounded accusations of lying.

Yes! Please close this thread. It is going in circles as two or three posters obviously seem to have a personal agenda against Coach Les!

[longtimelistener]

Close the thread and it only shows how narrow minded you are and how wrong you know you are.

I provided examples of the lies. It wasn't good enough for you because it didn't have quotes around it. But when it says, "The team learned they'd be without Ruffin on Thursday, senior guard Jeremy Crouch said," it means JC said it.

[Scouter]

Yes! Please close this thread. It is going in circles as two or three posters obviously seem to have a personal agenda against Coach Les!

I have no personal agenda against Jim Les, but whatever. I think he's a good coach and I love Bradley basketball. But that doesn't mean I'll let something slide by if he LIES, as has been referenced and SUPPORTED NUMEROUS TIMES.

Also, if the ignore sticky is in regard to longtimelistener and me, I'm sorry some of you have problems handling the truth.

[TheGreatOne]

Well, this certainly has been a very entertaining thread to read. I had no idea there was such a controversy over player injuries and whether or not Jim Les lied to the media and fans.

I am not big into the whole Jim Les conspiracy stuff that has been floating around Peoria and Bradley since he was hired all those years ago. I thought that had all passed after the Sweet Sixteen season, however I realize we live in a what have you done for me lately world.

I will say this though. I think this entire scenario is being blown out of whack. Does it really matter when Jim Les knew the extent of Daniel Ruffin's injury? To me, the only real concern is how fast will Daniel be back. I think we can all agree that without Ruffin at point, BU is a much less dangerous team.

I honestly do not know what a coach or school's responsibility is when disclosing injuries. I know the pros are forced to disclose injury status, but that is really for the purpose of betting lines. Regardless, none of this helps BU or gets Daniel Ruffin back on the floor.

I think everyone is "on edge" a bit because BU was picked 2nd in the Valley, and they now seem lost.

I surely hope Jim Les and the players are focusing on what they can control, which is their preparation and effort. Tonight is surely not going to be easy for the Braves.

http://thegreatonesports.blogspot.com/

[longtimelistener]

I have no personal agenda against Jim Les, but whatever. I think he's a good coach and I love Bradley basketball. But that doesn't mean I'll let something slide by if he LIES, as has been referenced and SUPPORTED NUMEROUS TIMES.

Also, if the ignore sticky is in regard to longtimelistener and me, I'm sorry some of you have problems handling the truth.

What he said. I want Bradley athletics as a whole to do well, but specifically hoops because I understand the impact it has on the overall success of the school. And I agree that JL's a good coach. I don't want to see him leave. He's a tremendous recruiter.

As for the ignore thread ... whatever. If you want your puppy dogs and sunshine and pretty rainbows board, ignore me. But isn't that what a message board is about ... discussion? Differing opinions? Discourse?

[tornado]

But when it says, "The team learned they'd be without Ruffin on Thursday, senior guard Jeremy Crouch said," it means JC said it.

Maybe, but either give me a quote from JIM LES...or prove without speculation that Crouch was quoteing Jim Les, as he never even remotely says so.
I still have great difficulty figuring out how a quote (actually a paraphrase) from Jeremy Crouch can be used as proof that Jim Les said anything, when JL's name in that story is only mentioned in regards to what he said to the reporter on Saturday, AFTER the BU news release had already stated they'd be without Ruffin for Saturday's game.
That article has NO OTHER quotes from JL especially not from Thursday!!
In fact I guess I am surprised you guys don't go after JC, as it seems the misquote/paraphrase of whatever he said seems to be the issue, but I remain unconvinced, as nobody has shown a JIM LES QUOTE, that even remotely can be identified as inaccurate or a lie. Even the paraphrase from JC doesn't say he heard anything from Coach Les. If JC doesn't identify the source of what he's heard, could it have been someone, anyone else?

[longtimelistener]

So you think the team found out, but JL didn't know?

As I said earlier, if that's the case, the team has more issues than we know.

[tornado]

Still waiting....where's the Jim Les quote that's false?
Has it occurred to you that much of what you base your accusations on are reports from the media that might
just be the real problem here, as they are NOT quotes from Jim Les and maybe, just maybe, if you are going to hang your
entire hat on what's said in a paraphrase in the PJ Star, then I feel I need to state my case no further.

[Scouter]

Still waiting....where's the Jim Les quote that's false?
Has it occurred to you that much of what you base your accusations on are reports from the media that might
just be the real problem here, as they are NOT quotes from Jim Les and maybe, just maybe, if you are going to hang your
entire hat on what's said in a paraphrase in the PJ Star, then I feel I need to state my case no further.

Tornado, you're inability to trust, understand and comprehend the concept of paraphrasing is ***********. You seem to be the only person left here who fails to believe that Jim Les wasn't honest with Dave Reynolds about Ruffin's status, even after all of this evidence has been posted time and time again. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Since tornado refuses to acknowledge these things and shows no sign of backing off, I suppose there is no reason to keep this thread open, and I ask that the moderators (tornado, you can even do it yourself!) go ahead and lock this thread.