Wessler 12/30

[BradleyBrave]

Thanks DallasBrave.

This thread is polluted with typical "Drive-by Media"/agenda-driven posts.

I don't think Wessler has an agenda against JL that's longstanding. Maybe I am naive, but KW is a BU fan at heart, and remembers JL's years as a player and his successes as a coach. I think as sports editor he really has no choice but to say something if he feels his people were wrongly informed, even if he does understand the motives. Whether he truly believes that or not, he kind of has to say something. Kind of like when a batter gets hit the inning after a guy on his team gets hit. You know one guy is gonna get it, but you gotta stand up and get tough anyways.

[tornado]

So why exactly did the players know on Thursday that they'd be without Ruffin on Saturday?

Daniel Ruffin was going to NEW JERSEY...that's like a thousand miles a way, you know.
He didn't even have the possibility of getting back until Saturday afternoon, and he was seeking help for a severely painful condition...
His plane wasn't even scheduled to leave New Jersey until Saturday morning, and if you were at the game, you saw,
that he arrived at Carver Arena with Ronnie Wright at precisely 2PM, five minutes before tip-off....
the staff knew they were not going to let Ruff play when he was getting off the plane just a few minjutes earlier.....
The staff and team knew this well in advance, that the earliest he'd be back would be too late, no matter how well he felt, to have him ready for the game. So I guess it was a no-brainer to figure Ruff wouldn't be playing Saturday.
If something JL said was interpreted differently, then you decide where the "fault" lies....

........I prefer to beleive that JL's decision was related to what was best for DR and not the PJS, NIU or any of us!

amen........and thanks for the voice of reason...
JL is not obligated to send us each a memo as to what he's doing, and how do we even know if maybe he DID tell the truth and the paper got it wrong and misquoted...
Given the history of stories like the Manual Cass committment to BU, and the misunderstanding about the BU expansion plans-where the media people claimed the agenda was being hidden and all the while the entire plans were on display openly in the foyer right in front of Jim Les' office!!!
........I'd have to think it's apossibility...

[longtimelistener]

Sorry, but this is a profoundly silly question. Again, you must simply NOT know the facts...
Daniel Ruffin was going to NEW JERSEY...that's like a thousand miles a way, you know.
He didn't even have the possibility of getting back until Saturday afternoon, and he was seeking help for a severely painful condition...
His plane wasn't even scheduled to leave New Jersey until Saturday morning, and if you were at the game, you saw,
that he arrived at Carver Arena with Ronnie Wright at precisely 2PM, five minutes before tip-off....
the staff knew they were not going to let Ruff play when he was getting off the plane just a few minjutes earlier.....
The staff and team knew this well in advance, that the earliest he'd be back would be too late, no matter how well he felt, to have him ready for the game. So I guess it was a no-brainer to figure Ruff wouldn't be playing Saturday.
If something JL said was interpreted differently, then you decide where the "fault" lies....





amen........and thanks for the voice of reason...
JL is not obligated to send us each a memo as to what he's doing, and how do we even know if maybe he DID tell the truth and the paper got it wrong and misquoted...
Given the history of stories like the Manual Cass committment to BU, and the misunderstanding about the BU expansion plans-where the media people claimed the agenda was being hidden and all the while the entire plans were on display openly in the foyer right in front of Jim Les' office!!!
........I'd have to think it's apossibility...

Then he's not a game-time decision, as Les said.

I don't care if Les divulges the information or not. But don't say he's a game-time decision when you know for a fact he's not.

I guarentee this resurfaces before the season is over, but I'm out of this thread.

[onetuffshot]

Post reply

My biggest problem with the article was when KW, during the article, turned from positive to negative. Even the headline "Depleted Braves Not Yet At Point Of No Return" was a positive slant on a disappointing performance. But, as the article continues, he just couldn't leave it that way. At the end he just had to fire the zinger at Les. If he really wanted to help, as was implied by an earlier post, he needed to omit his last point.
As JC said in today's Reynold's article, "It's important for everyone to stay positive." No question, as Reynolds points out, the Braves psyche is very fragile right now. Negativity by the press will only make things worse. As JC points out, "You can't control adversity, but you can control how you respond to it." It's quite possible things could get worse before Ruff gets back, but as the old cliche says, "When the going gets rough, the tough get going."
This team is at a crossroad. They can feel sorry for themselves and roll over, or they can fight through the adversity.
It will help immensely, if those around them stay positive.

[tornado]

But don't say he's a game-time decision ....

I personally never heard anyone say this....are you sure Jim Les said "game-time decision"?


Here are Kirk Wessler's PRECISE words....cut and pasted from his story....

"Les told a Journal Star reporter he probably wouldn't know Ruffin's status until Saturday. When pressed, the coach refused to rule out Ruffin as a possible participant in the game."

The words "decision" and "game-time" or "game time" do not appear anywhere in Wessler's writings, nor anywhere in the PJ Star!!!

well...since Ruff was in New Jersey and Les had no way to know how he was until Ruff got back to Peoria at about 2PM Saturday...I'd say it is
VERY believable that Jim Les would NOT know Ruffin's status until he returned to Peoria.

And the next line....that Jim Les "refused to rule out"...
Wait a minute.................this doesn't say he was a game-time decision...
this is just a simple comment that JL was refusing to tip his hand....
How can anyone call this a "bold-faced lie"....because it is actually the truth...he refused to say, and he honored his refusal...he didn't lie about refusing to say!!

I don't see the issue.....looks to me like JL carefully worded his answer to be BOTH truthful and careful, since your FEDERAL governmant has actually implemented "HIPPA" laws that PROHIBIT Coach Les or anyone from speaking about Daniel Ruffin's personal medical information without the proper signed consent forms first!!

Once and for all...let's hope this ends it....
Jim Les did not say anything untruthful, he did not lie, and he did what just about every coach would do to protect the patient's privacy and the plan for the game.
If this is the worst lie some of you guys can imagine or that KW has ever heard coming from a coach's mouth, then I have some land in Florida to sell you!!


by the way...have a read.....

http://taylorbunts.blogspot.com/2005/10/debunking-sports-hernia.html

[lefty]

I don't know if was bold-faced lie or not. I can see both side of this issue.

I think other coaches would have handled it differently but it's nothing to get all upset about. Other writers may have wrote about diffently as well but it doesn't make KW a bad guy..
Now it might make him a little tentative to believe what JL says about a situation but that's all and personally I don't think JL cares about that.

I do think JL could have told KW off the record as well.....all that said we all got better things to worry about

[Average Joe]

After decades of hit pieces and back stabbing columns (Lien, Theobald, KW, etc.)
the PJS people want to know why the BU coaching staff is careful about opening
up and telling them the most intimate details and answers? Surely they know if they
want a candid response in an interview, thy should have started years ago to foster a decent
and not a hostile relationship with people. I'm not a coach or a public figure, but I would never give
a statement to anyone from the paper if I didn't have to, and if I had to, I'd be pretty darn careful
what I say so they don't turn the whole thing on me.
Does anyone recall how they reported the visit to a grade schooll by VP Dan Quayle?

[Murph]

After decades of hit pieces and back stabbing columns (Lien, Theobald, KW, etc.)
the PJS people want to know why the BU coaching staff is careful about opening
up and telling them the most intimate details and answers? Surely they know if they
want a candid response in an interview, thy should have started years ago to foster a decent
and not a hostile relationship with people. I'm not a coach or a public figure, but I would never give
a statement to anyone from the paper if I didn't have to, and if I had to, I'd be pretty darn careful
what I say so they don't turn the whole thing on me.
Does anyone recall how they reported the visit to a grade schooll by VP Dan Quayle?

And they wonder why they're losing money, a few months ago after 32 years I cancled my subscription and I don't miss it.

[Average Joe]

Here's apart of the column that interests me more.

From the Kirk Wessler column___
"Les, however, was less than honest with the public about Ruffin's status.

When pressed, the coach refused to rule out Ruffin as a possible participant in the game."

I would love to have actually witnessed what is described as "when pressed", because generally
when I imagine a reporter "pressing" for an answer, I picture the reporter already deciding what answer
he wants and trying to trap the interviewee into spilling it, or I picture the reporter actually putting the words
into the person's mouth and then going ahead and reporting what he wanted to hear rather than what was actually said.

[longtimelistener]

I personally never heard anyone say this....are you sure Jim Les said "game-time decision"?


Here are Kirk Wessler's PRECISE words....cut and pasted from his story....

"Les told a Journal Star reporter he probably wouldn't know Ruffin's status until Saturday. When pressed, the coach refused to rule out Ruffin as a possible participant in the game."

The words "decision" and "game-time" or "game time" do not appear anywhere in Wessler's writings, nor anywhere in the PJ Star!!!

well...since Ruff was in New Jersey and Les had no way to know how he was until Ruff got back to Peoria at about 2PM Saturday...I'd say it is
VERY believable that Jim Les would NOT know Ruffin's status until he returned to Peoria.

And the next line....that Jim Les "refused to rule out"...
Wait a minute.................this doesn't say he was a game-time decision...
this is just a simple comment that JL was refusing to tip his hand....
How can anyone call this a "bold-faced lie"....because it is actually the truth...he refused to say, and he honored his refusal...he didn't lie about refusing to say!!

I don't see the issue.....looks to me like JL carefully worded his answer to be BOTH truthful and careful, since your FEDERAL governmant has actually implemented "HIPPA" laws that PROHIBIT Coach Les or anyone from speaking about Daniel Ruffin's personal medical information without the proper signed consent forms first!!

Once and for all...let's hope this ends it....
Jim Les did not say anything untruthful, he did not lie, and he did what just about every coach would do to protect the patient's privacy and the plan for the game.
If this is the worst lie some of you guys can imagine or that KW has ever heard coming from a coach's mouth, then I have some land in Florida to sell you!!


by the way...have a read.....
http://taylorbunts.blogspot.com/2005...ts-hernia.html

You didn't settle anything because you're looking at the wrong stories.

http://pjstar.com/stories/122907/BRA_BFB70E1T.080.php

In which, Reynolds writes:

As of late Friday afternoon, Ruffin's status was still uncertain for today's Missouri Valley Conference opener at Carver Arena against Northern Iowa (8-3).

Ruffin was examined Friday by an out-of-town specialist for his lingering lower abdominal strain and BU coach Jim Les said he wasn't expecting to hear the results of the doctor visit until today.

But he wasn't willing to count out Ruffin for this game even though the fifth-year senior has practiced little in the past week.

"I never rule out anything," Les said. "We're taking it one day at a time with Daniel. It's a little frustrating for him that, even though the MRI was negative, he still has pain. So we want to get a handle on what we're dealing with and go from there."


Then this story, http://pjstar.com/stories/123007/BRA_BFBNAK4M.077.php Reynolds writes:

Ruffin's teammates learned Thursday they would be without their leader for an extended period, senior guard Jeremy Crouch said.

The news wasn't publicly acknowledged by Bradley until about an hour before tipoff Saturday.

"We just want to be supportive of him, try to keep him involved and count the days until he comes back," Crouch said. " Everybody is going to have to fill some of Daniel's roles. He did so many things. Losing Daniel is going to be a big blow for us, but I think we have some guys here who can fill the void."




So ... How exactly can the players know on Thursday that Ruffin won't play on Saturday, but Les isn't sure on Friday of Ruffin's status for Saturday? Unless, of course, Les isn't being given all the information ... and if that's the case, we certainly do have bigger problems.



PS. I know I said I was out ... I guess I was unwilling to drop the subject. Call me a liar.

[wily coyote]

I am completely amazed at the idiocy of this thread!

I am too. This is the craziest thread in quite some time. I'll worry about what JL says when then NCAA comes in and tells me this is serious. Give me a break and move on. This is so stupid . JL doesn't owe us or the JS any scoops on our game plan. Could it have been handled better? Yes, but so what.

[Dub]

Hopefully this thread is dying out, but I have to get my .02 in as well.

I am shocked by the folks that have gotten fired up at JL for this. Nothing of what he said can be called a "lie" or "dishonest" based on the amount of information we have. You could potentially call it "less than open" or even "misleading" but not dishonest. Wessler is embarassed that the PJS came to the wrong conclusions and published it. It is their job to press for answers and get what they can, but then they have to decide whether they have strong and direct enough answers at that point to publish it. They screwed up this time, and are now playing games with JL... trying to make him look bad. The only result will be even less information for us, the customers who matter the most. Thanks PJS!

After trying to look ath this from both sides, I support the coach and will be there at the games myself to get the information I need going forward.

[Beninator]

And they wonder why they're losing money, a few months ago after 32 years I cancled my subscription and I don't miss it.

Way to go Murph. I cancelled my subscription as well. I have had run -ins with the PJS staff in the past over editorial issues that were reported wrong by the PJS. It was an issue that the PJS was for so they suppressed opposing facts.

The PJS and their writers are pure garbage!

[tornado]

Long time listener, first...the thread is about Wessler's column, now you are asking about Reynolds' column...so I will address that one, too...
EVEN though I still don't see any such term as "game time decision" in Reynolds' column either.

It just says he wasn't willing to "count out" Ruffin....not willing doesn't mean "is going to play" or "game time decision".

In your quote, you acknowledge that Jim Les said this:
"Jim Les said he wasn't expecting to hear the results of the doctor visit until today." (Saturday)

so....please tell me how he could have been expected to have known Ruffin's status on Friday, when he SAID he didn't and wasn't expected to know the results of Friday's consult with the Dr. until Saturday?

I still think it an incredible stretch to quote Jeremy Crouch telling that they practiced Thursday without Ruffin in preparation for playing without him on Saturday, something that seems like daggone good coaching and preparation if you ask me.
Then you jump to some wild conclusion that maybe Les knew on Friday that Ruff is 100% unable to play, a guaranteed outcome that you can take to the bank, and that he was obligated to draw such conclusion, and then give it Friday to the press??

Gimme a break.......you have to be a born and bred JL-hater to find a problem here, so I can move on and not be the least bit bothered by any of this.


Lastly, the 2nd Reynolds article you cite and link....scroll to the end...
doesn't actually seem to be quoting Crouch in regards to his teammates...note there are NO QUOTATION marks..
I have no idea what to make of it, but newspaper people are generally pretty careful about putting quotes on people's words, and they don't exist here.
There are quotation marks on Crouch's words further down......so I can only conclude those wordsa re Reynolds' not Crouchs....unless someone says otherwise.
Anyway, why is this in Sunday's story.....if crouch said this, then couldn't they have put this in thursday's or Friday's edition....why does this comment show up on Sunday and it is not cited as a quote?
I guess I have some real doubts about who really said what and when, and there sure just isn't enough for even Sherlock Holmes to draw many conclusions there.

[Scouter]

Lastly, the 2nd Reynolds article you cite and link....scroll to the end...
doesn't actually seem to be quoting Crouch in regards to his teammates...note there are NO QUOTATION marks..
I have no idea what to make of it, but newspaper people are generally pretty careful about putting quotes on people's words, and they don't exist here.
There are quotation marks on Crouch's words further down......so I can only conclude those wordsa re Reynolds' not Crouchs....unless someone says otherwise.
Anyway, why is this in Sunday's story.....if crouch said this, then couldn't they have put this in thursday's or Friday's edition....why does this comment show up on Sunday and it is not cited as a quote?
I guess I have some real doubts about who really said what and when, and there sure just isn't enough for even Sherlock Holmes to draw many conclusions there.

Like longtimelistener, I said I'd stay out of this, but tornado's inability to comprehend words and sentences just baffles me.

FROM REYNOLDS' STORY AFTER THE UNI GAME:
Ruffin's teammates learned Thursday they would be without their leader for an extended period, senior guard Jeremy Crouch said.

1. It is not a direct quote, but Crouch still said it and DR attributed those words to Crouch. It's called "paraphrasing." Perhaps you've heard of it.

2. Why is this in Sunday's story? Ummm ... probably because Crouch said it SATURDAY. When writer's write stories they typically don't say what day things were said because it's generally assumed it was said the day before (in this case, Saturday) for the next day's paper (Sunday). If Crouch said it Thursday or Friday or last February, Reynolds or any other writer would've included that.

3. If Crouch had said that Thursday or Friday, don't you think DR would've put that in Friday or Saturday's paper instead of Les saying he wouldn't "count out" Ruffin? Duh.