Collins

[ER3]

I don't think it would have mattered very much since MSU almost had more offensive rebounds than we had all together. If you are going to question Collins toughness, how many boards did Egolf have? I still have yet to be impressed with him.

What in the world does Egolf have to do with this thread? I guess you can bring him up to try and change the subject if you'd like to, but it doesn't have anything to do with this discussion on Collins.

My assessment of Collins was merely answering those posters above that seem to be bewildered as to why Les didn't give DC minutes in the second half. If you give significant minutes to Collins in the second half of that game, Bradley loses by 15. DC did nothing on the defensive end to earn additional playing time in the second half. That's how I saw it.

If you want my assessment of Egolf...he was overmatched in this game as well. That's why he spent the second half sitting next to Collins. And that's where those guys needed to be to give BU any chance of pulling this one out.

As I said above...I hope Collins and the rest of BU's bigs learn a lot from this game. It has been mentioned before by Les that these big guys suffer from being too nice and they need to develop a bit of a mean streak in them to be successful at this level...and I think we saw that on display tonight...

[BUconnorD]

Collins had a ball tipped away from him on Offense in the 1st half. it didn't lead to a turn over but it leads to one of his 3 biggest problems...and here they are:

1) Ball control: He's not very steady on his dribbling and control of the ball. SS is better, not the best. and MS is the best at this. That is why, I think, he is still starting (among 2 other reasons *see below)

2) Decision making: He's not the brightest when picking between MS and SS. HOWEVER, this could be Les's fault. I think Bradley brought in Collins thinking he's gonna know what to do and be 100%. So they did very little for him at the beginning and focusing on Egolf and Theron. I think with more playing time Collins will get smarter and a better presence under the hoop.

3)SOFTNESS!!! For a 7'er he is not that powerful. Gray, Sutton, Naymek were able to post up against him, get in front of him on the O & D boards, and overall walk all over him.

DC needs more time and some more coaching. Give him time and he'll be great.
But
the way Salley played tonight I'm not sure he is that great of a choice. MS needed to produce to save his starting spot and he did tonight.

[squirrel]

You guys realize you are questioning the same coach that said Sam Singh would be essential in order for BU to be competitive against MSU last season, and didn't play him until Bradley was down 30+ and the game was out of reach. . .

Collins was out of position on some rebounds, but he was able to alter a large % of MSU's shots in the first half, and in the second half, they shot 4-5% better, which if you want to split hairs was the difference in the result.

[jasonpeoria911]

That's true squirrel but I think you may have missed DC getting burned to the hoop about 4 times for easy layups and also getting manhandled on the boards, he was like a ball in a pinball machine. On the plus side, DC only missed 1 shot again for his 7th in 9 games. Went 2 of 3 in 12 minutes. He's now shooting like 72% or something. It's clear Wilson is coming along great and it's very obvious the coaches need to work on DC's defense as they are the 2 huge contributers at this point in the season along with Sam. This will be fixed, I have confidence in Les and gang.

Jason

[BUconnorD]

You guys realize you are questioning the same coach that said Sam Singh would be essential in order for BU to be competitive against MSU last season, and didn't play him until Bradley was down 30+ and the game was out of reach. . .

Collins was out of position on some rebounds, but he was able to alter a large % of MSU's shots in the first half, and in the second half, they shot 4-5% better, which if you want to split hairs was the difference in the result.

Singher was still recovering from his many...maaaany...MAAANY injuries

but your second point was an overall team effort.
Bradley's Defense died in the second half...It may have been Collin's sitting, it may ahve been JC being tired, it may have just been the team being tired.

I think Les realized that collins was getting manhandled and felt Salley was a better matchup...which he was (8 rebounds)

[Scouter]

Singher was still recovering from his many...maaaany...MAAANY injuries

If you're referring to last year, wasn't that one of the instances in which SS WAS healthy? Why would Les say we need Singh to play well to have a shot if he knew Singh was nursing maaaaaaany injuries?

I think Les realized that collins was getting manhandled and felt Salley was a better matchup...which he was (8 rebounds)

Salley -- 8 rebounds in 20 minutes
Collins -- 4 rebounds in 13 minutes

I understand that DC is a liability right now on the defensive end. But what he does on offense should at least warrant him A FEW minutes in the second half. His presence down low opens things up for Ruffin, Crouch, Warren, basically everyone on the outside.

Is Singh really that much of an upgrade on defense and on the boards? I'm not so sure.

[it's boogie time]

The offense went down the tubes when Sam Singh was in there. I root for him as much as any fan since he has preserved though a lot. However, Mighigan State didn't respect him as a threat at all. His defender was wondering and cloggin things up for BU. His screens were ineffective since they only had to worry about the player with the ball (he does set the best screens). The offense became a pass around the perimeter drill the last 12 minutes of the game.

Unfortunately, every big man on the BU roster has his shortcomings and Michigan State took advantage of it. I'm sure a few other teams will too.

[Dallas Brave]

David Collins is not the second coming of Bill Russell, but he is the best big man that BU has and brings elements to the floor that none of the other "big men" at BU can. I watched the game on TV and saw many of negative things about DC's play that other posters pointed out, but MSU had a much easier time scoring inside when DC was on the bench along with Bradley being relegated to being just an outside jump shooting team because we do not have any other inside scoring threat.

While not a perfect indicator of shot location, I did review the play-by-play and noted the following:

MSU made shots
1st half -- 5 jump shots, 7 layups or dunks, 38.7 shooting percentage
2nd half -- 4 jump shots, 8 layups or dunks, 42.9 shooting percentage

BU made shots
1st half - 5 jump shots, 7 layups or dunks, 40.0 shooting percentage
2nd half - 5 jump shots, 4 layups or dunks (3 if you take away the last second gimme to DR), 36.0 shooting percentage

My take on the situation ... While DC is not perfect, he does force the other team to take more outside shots and he is the only legitimate inside threat that BU has which also allows for BU's perimeter players to get better open looks when they take their jumpers. I think JL needs to design some more offensive plays designed around DC which will pay dividends to our outside game as well.

[thefish7]

I'm going to watch the game again on DVR, I think... But my take on it, was we went small for the last 10 minutes and could not score. I'm absolutely tired of the 4 guards and Salley lineup. We had a 9 point lead when Sam Singh sat down (I think that's how it went anyway) and it feels like we weren't able to score again. We have bigs and we have to use them... 4 guard should be something we used with some success out of necessity, not the focus of the team.

[ph]

Singh is one of those PCC croud favorite guys. Fans seem to love his percieved hustle, and he got some of the bigger cheers of the night. Plus, as I found out from the obnoxious MSU fans behind me, Sam* Singh is also the mayor of East Lansing http://www.cityofeastlansing.com/ ssingh@cityofeastlansing.com

How can you not play the mayor against MSU?

[basketball nut]

All of the upside that Collins gives you on the offensive side, he completely gives it away...and then some... on the defensive end.He played a terrible, terrible game on the defensive side tonight...He is SOFT, SOFT, SOFT right now. He was getting completely manhandled on MSU's offensive boards tonight. Rebounding is all about blocking out, desire, and effort...and unfortunately Collins was 0-for-3 in those categories tonight. Singh had to be brought in for him just to show MSU that someone from BU was capable of putting a body on someone.

Hopefully this will be a learning experience for him...but he simply had to be taken off the floor tonight in the 2nd half...MSU might have had 75 offensive rebounds if Collins would have been in there for much of the second half...

This is a perfect assesment of why DC isn't playing when the game is on the linie. The first rebound he tried to grab was taken out of his hands like I would take a ballout of my 3 Y/O granson's hands. He isn't just soft he has no hands what so ever. At least 3 times there were rebounds that he had in his hands and they just took the ball away like taking candy from a baby and MSU score on each of those times. The only time DC can score is if the ball is put directly into his hands and no one is guarding him very close, otherwise he will bobble the ball and loose it to the other team. BU might as well just give the ball to other team whenever DC is in the game if he is being guarded very close at all. Is there hope for DC, of course and he willget better. Is he ever going to POB, no I do not see that but, then again, one never knows what is going to happen. Will BU see a bigger inside presence then MSU? Absulately not before the NCAA tournament. Can BU win the MVC? Of course as long as they play like they did last night and the newcomers continue to improve and, yes, I am talking about both DC &WE

[Murph]

Maybe he isn't D1 material after all.....

[ph]

DC is currently D1 backup material, he's just not a POB. We got spoiled. He gave what I hoped for, pre-season: decent minutes with 2 great dunks.

I still can't believe that MSU kept bailing us out. We kept pounding the ball into one of our weakest offensive players (Salley) and MSU would bail us out by fouling. If they just stood there, they'd probably get another rebound.

[Les is More]

DC does look lost. i think he deserves les on is a$$ to toughen him up. He (Along with all our big men) are entirely too soft. The mich state game only proved that. we got pushed around to get out rebounded. we got purely dominated and ultimately hurt by being out rebounded the way we did.

if DC plays right now later in the season vs. Faulkner, he will be sitting on the bench again.

I wish our big men would taken after TW. He plays way bigger then he is, and i am impressed with his attitude, strength, and overall skill each game.
He is going to be a phenominal asset to have.

[ghunt]

Thank you

I'm going to watch the game again on DVR, I think... But my take on it, was we went small for the last 10 minutes and could not score. I'm absolutely tired of the 4 guards and Salley lineup. We had a 9 point lead when Sam Singh sat down (I think that's how it went anyway) and it feels like we weren't able to score again. We have bigs and we have to use them... 4 guard should be something we used with some success out of necessity, not the focus of the team.

I'm glad that Sam got in because I noted some of the things that the others did with DC--DC getting out-muscled and not properly postioning himself at either end of the the floor. Sam has more mass and places himself better, however, he is obviously not as quick or as explosive as DC--i.e., DC does have moments as an atheletic 7 footer.

But the most important point is that both need more playing time. I've been trying to decipher what Les is doing with the line-up, and I figured he starts small in order to try and establish our game. However, we obviously played at MSU's tempo last night, and that looked to be a conscious coaching decision to do so--and I have noticed other stretches of other games this year where this has happened as well. However, Jim has went small in the clutch more than once. This is just plain strange--it does not take a rocket scientist to realize that with such a line up we only have a Matt S to match up to three guys 6'8" or more, and we have bizarre mismatches of Sam M. or JC getting posted up by or trying to outrebound someone half-a-foot taller or more. If DC is getting played with by such players, what the heck makes you think the samll guys are going to do better? Such line-ups obvioulsy do not improve interior defense or rebounding. If going small does not shift the tempo, the only other rationales are improved ball handling and outside shooting--but this really does not result nor does it justify the small lineup--we still turn it over, give up more rebounds, give the opposition stronger or more more posessions, and 4 3-point threats versus 3 does not really give us that much of a positive over having a true 4 and 5 in there.

Another thought as to why we are still not seeing us go big enough and acutally playing who we recruited to address a glaring weekness, is as others have mentioned, the players are still raw, and like we did with POB, Jim is nursing the minutes. DC is a raw juco who may be a diamond in the rough, Will is a frosh from Alaska, and Sam S. is possibly healthy for the first time and actually experiencing his first full and real year of D-I ball. However, there are three of them, and with Salley in that mix, you mean we cannot have two of them on the floor at the same time? Jim had been bringing DC and Will in together at the first time out, but that has not been the case lately, though. I'm still trying to figure out what is going on before I challenge the coaching decisions any more strongly, so as you can see, I'm listing both sides of the coin here, but I am definitely leaning toward a "what the h***?" moment. I was afraid of Jimmy getting beholden to the system he established last year, given some of his comments from last season and in the off-season, especially when it looked like we were bringing in quick small forward types. But when, those fell-through, and it looked like we had real size coming in, I was relieved somewhat, but with some apprehension still.

Bottom-line--yes the big guys need to be developed, but this comes through actual minutes, and with even their raw talent, they are, almost by definition, better at playing 4 and 5 than the small guys that are out there. The concern for their development should not result in a hesitancy to use them that is at the detriment to the team. And, as I noted earlier in the season, there is no reason in any game, yet alone one we willfully play at a slow tempo against a big team, that we should not have a true 4 and 5 out there at the same time.

P.S. Another thought on going small--and in this case not using it properly--where the heck is the ball pressure? If we are supposedly small, quick, and athletic, then where is picking up full court or pressing or trapping? We could have done those things numerous times last year (and I thought we would especially with Chuck on the bench) and did not, and lost. We also could have done that at times last night. When I seen the Mizzou game agaisnt MSU and watched how MSU crumpled under it, I thought to myself, "Hey, I hope Jimmy is watching this, becuase we could do this even better." Well, I guess the only time we decided to seriously do anything full-court defensively last night is when we thought we had to foul really quick. Things are starting to get little odd, but I just hope I am just a little overly anxious and this is not what is going to continue, and that we'll see the big guys develop and get more minutes as the season progresses.

P.S.S. And, maybe on a sad note, this discussion, and not just from my view, but from the others here as well, is leaving out Rashad Austin. I wonder what is happening there--a juco who just is not where he needs to be yet?