cpacmel

[Da Coach]

The 2 ISU posters in this thread, Danny and cpacmel are indeed great fans of ISU and I have never seen any derogatory, anti-BU stuff from them. They have been remarkably pro-Bradley these past few weeks and so have many people in that Bradley thread on the iSU board. I did not mean to suggest that all ISU fans are anti-Bradley as that is clearly not the case. But there were still several BU-hating posters, some of who posted multiple times in that one thread alone. And I just used that 1 thread as an example. There are other threads that degenerate into anti Bradley themes. And there are threads that have totaly erroneous stuff like suggestions that Bradley knowingly paid their players extra money to entice them, like Patrick O'Bryant and Will Franklin to come to Bradley. I wouldn't even have the time to respond to every anti Bradley post, or try to correct every post containing anti-Bradley stuff.

Yet all this participation by ISU fans was started by a couple joking, clearly not serious, comments made by a couple posters on a different board, not this one. So while we welcome ISU fans' participation here (unlike the ISU board which is quite intolerant of opinions from Bradley people), I just think this is an overreaction.

[cpacmel]

OK...time to move on. Perhaps I was the one being too sensitive but, like I said, just felt BU fans needed to be defended for something I said in jest.

Mel and Cooksey are welcome anytime.....

Didn't mean to rattle feathers

dogsrus, no problem. I apologize for anything that might have rubbed you the wrong way.

We are cool. No Biggie.

Sometimes things get lost in translation and I really never meant to demean BU fans or yourself.

[cpacmel]

So while we welcome ISU fans' participation here (unlike the ISU board which is quite intolerant of opinions from Bradley people), I just think this is an overreaction.

I think there are always going to be super sensitive fans. I can't say that I always agree with them, but you know...you have to take the good fans with the bad...

Peace

[tornado]

Danny cooksey, I am sorry my opinion is so offensive to you and cpac, and I am not sure that I buy your "if you have never seen him as much as I have, then you aren't entitled to an opinion" stance.

I have seen him play, mostly during the summer when nobody is playing the kind of defense you will see in D-I.

Funny how you refute my points, but you cannot deny they are true, you just spin the truth.
Chicago Phillips played in a Chicago Public League division that had only one winning team, Westinghouse. And although Westinghouse was a good team, they were considerably down from their usual strength.

I also wonder if you can tell me how many other All Staters were on Devan Bawinkle's Winnebago team when he led them almost singlehandedly to the State Finals two straight years, or how many other All Staters play with Jon Scheyer?
BUT- a solid star can carry a team.
Just because Phillips doesn't have a lot of other talent can work both ways.
It also means Osiris can take a lot of shots, and can have the opportunity to lead the team and show his talents.
I am just not too sure I buy the line that he is real geat and that his team's subpar performance is all the fault of his talentless teammates.

"Brutal league"??
The CPL was way down this year.
There were lots of good guards, but out of the state's best 20 seniors, only three CPL players (Sherron Collins, Pat Beverley, and Eldridge) are among the top 15 or so players statewide.

Same goes for the state's best juniors, as only two stand out (Derrick Rose & Michael Thompson - both guards) among the states best player.

There's a real lack of Chicago Public League big men, so the game has become a guard-oriented game in Chicago. Osiris is a fine 6'2"- 6'3" shooting guard, but at the college level, a 6'3" SG had better be able to shoot like Nate Funk, Ben Jacobson, or Hersey Hawkins. I still contend he will not be able to get the points that now comprise 60-70% of what he's getting now.
DeAaron Williams couldn't, Calvin Brock isn't and most guys that size had better have a nice outside shot.

We'll see....
As I said, all those people who put names on All State teams are not the guys who determine the outcome in college.
Carbondale guard Ray Nelson (cousin to Josh Tabb) averaged 27 points his junior year, and has a game that's a lot like Osiris', and also helped lead his team to the State Finals.
Tell me where he is tearing up Div-I?

Also, the people who voted for the AP All State team put OE on the 3rd team with a couple low D-I recruits and a couple guys who didn't go D-I, so his overwhelming talent isn't unanimously agreed upon.

And in the Mr. Basketball voting in Illinois, I must have missed something, or is it possible he didn't get even ONE SINGLE VOTE?
He didn't finish among the THIRTY players who received votes.
Why???

[dogsrus]

OK...time to move on. Perhaps I was the one being too sensitive but, like I said, just felt BU fans needed to be defended for something I said in jest.

Mel and Cooksey are welcome anytime.....

Didn't mean to rattle feathers

dogsrus, no problem. I apologize for anything that might have rubbed you the wrong way.

We are cool. No Biggie.

Sometimes things get lost in translation and I really never meant to demean BU fans or yourself.

I need a tissue.....

[cpacmel]

"Brutal league"??
The CPL was way down this year.

2 of the top 4 teams in the state were from the CPL. And you could really debate that the 2 best teams were from the CPL, the IHSA in their wisdom decided to have Marshall meet Simeon in the Semi's.

[cpacmel]

I also wonder if you can tell me how many other All Staters were on Devan Bawinkle's Winnebago team when he led them almost singlehandedly to the State Finals two straight years, or how many other All Staters play with Jon Scheyer?
BUT- a solid star can carry a team.

it's funny that you mention Bawinkle. If he is such a star, like you say he is, how far did he carry Winnebago this season? Or does your star theory not work every year?

[cpacmel]

Also, the people who voted for the AP All State team put OE on the 3rd team with a couple low D-I recruits and a couple guys who didn't go D-I, so his overwhelming talent isn't unanimously agreed upon.

3rd team put him ahead of:

Bill Cole (Illini recruit)
Jeff Ryan (Northwestern recruit)

even TJ Marion....

[cpacmel]

And in the Mr. Basketball voting in Illinois, I must have missed something, or is it possible he didn't get even ONE SINGLE VOTE?
He didn't finish among the THIRTY players who received votes.
Why???

Maybe because he plays in Chicago and each voter only gets 3 votes for Mr. Basketball.

With Sherron Collins, Patrick Beverly and Derrick Rose all being in the CPL....and Eldridge being behind those 3 talent wise, it is no surprise that he didn't get any votes.

And with Phillips playing the majority of their games in the city, getting press outside of Chicago was pretty tough for him. (trust me, I know this, because I tried to follow him as close as I could this season)

Explain this to me then Tornado:

Eldridge is 3rd team All-State, Jeff Ryan is Honorable Mention All-State, but Jeff Ryan gets 5 total points for Mr. Basketball?

Even take it a step further, Mike Capocci from Glenbard West wasn't even HONORABLE MENTION All-State! But he got 4 votes for Mr. Basketball.

You have your doubts about Eldridge. That's cool, that's your opioion. But to say the kid can't play because he didn't get any votes for Mr. Basketball isn't right. I can link you to a few sites that have Eldridge as one of the top 15 seniors in the state. I can also link you to where Florida, Cal and Marquette were all after him, if that helps his street value

[tornado]

I am glad you asked me to compare Devan Bawinkel's Winnebago team to Osiris Eldridge's Phillips team.

Bawinkel literally carried his team to State again for the third year, despite having very little talent on the team besides Devan.
(remember, the games in the Sweet Sixteen are all considered "State" even though only the Elite Eight make it to Carver.)

Unlike Chicago Phillips, Winnebago this season won 24 of their 26 regular season games.
They finished their regular season 24-2, 10-0 in conference and ranked #6 in the state. (one of their losses was to a ranked Class AA team)

As for using the strength of Simeon and Marshall to boost your argument about Phillips is hard to follow.
Eldridge and his team did not play many of the stronger teams in Chicago, and they lost every time they did.
Winnebago then swept through their Regional as champions, and won their Sectional quite easliy, having only one post season game all the way to Supersectional that was even within 20 points margin.

They lost their Supersectional to the ultimate State Champions Seneca to finish the season 28-3, a far, far cry from the sub-.500 record Phillips had, and their one-and-done showing in the state tourney.


*********************************


Also, one more thing cpac....as I am sure we are both loyal to our teams and a bit biased by our loyalties, but this whole debate is eerily similar to the ones I have had with ISU fans each of the past 3-4 years.
Maybe you even remember some of these debates, but most were on the other board. I will remind you....

4 years ago.... I debated whether the Jim Les hire was good or bad. Most ISU fans sided with the Wayne McClain supporters and thought it was bad and one particular, prominent ISU fan on the PJS board was very vocal in saying Les wouldn't last long and without D-I experience would get eaten alive in the Valley. I think THIS is one debate that the facts have now proven me right.

3 years ago when BU brought in Marcellus Sommerville & Daniel Ruffin, I had a lively debate with several of the other board's ISU fans about who was better...and who would have more impact...
Sommerville...or....Najeeb Echols
Ruffin....or....anyone ISU put on the floor
...........Well--case closed on both of those arguments...I think I was right and the ISU guys who laughed at my predictions were so dead wrong that now they try to deny their claims (especially the ridiculous one about Echols).

2 years ago, after a disappointing season by the Braves, the ISU fans snickered at any hint that Bradley had better recruits than ISU.
After all, BU had a couple of unheralded jucos (Wright & Bennett) and a big clumsy guy from Minnesota. ISU was going to bring in a top point guard and post player and would contend for the MVC title.
Turns out the point guard went elsewhere, and ISU, even with it's strong senior guards and newcomer of the year still finished only one game ahead of BU in the standings. Meanwhile, that big, clumsy senter started drawing NBA scouts to watch him and that "newcomer of the year" flunked out of school.
Considering both BU & ISU finished disappointingly, at least BU fans had something to look forward to.

Then last year came a big debate with some of the ISU posters (esp. bb Fan) who said the Redbirds' prospects for 2005-2006 was far, far better than the Braves'. They said they'd still rather have what they had coming back over what BU had.
This seemd like an insane argument, but then what the hey----even most of the supposedly pro BU people on the PJS board didn't think BU had a chance of more than maybe an NIT bid.

Again, I think I won that debate....so in four years, I feel I can now debate from the confident standpoint of being 4 for 4 in debates over the past 4 years.
So I am not yet sold on packing up the Newcomer of the Year trophy and putting Osiris' address on it yet.
Let's wait and see.........

[DannyCooksey]

Tornado..........

yep let's wait and see. I don't like comparing Class A to Class AA either. I think it's foolish. But......... since you insist: Bawinkel will get destroyed at West Virginia. I think the kid has outkicked his coverage with that choice. A freshman embarrased him in his last highschool game as well. Totally dominated him to the point that Bawinkel became so frustrated he started a fight and was summarily ejected. he finished 17 points below his average. not good.


Eldridge will be just fine regardless of his non-impact in Mr.
Basketball voting. Or all-state consideration or anything else.

Shawn Jeppson finished 5th in Mr.Basketball his senior year. The others???

Q Richardson, Magette, Joey Range, I can't remember the other guy. Would you put Jeppson in their class as a player??? Only if you were very very stoned.

Jepp had a solid 4 year career but wasn't even close to being as good as these guys were at the same age. Yet Jepp was far more effective than Range in college. the other 2 are NBA mainstays.

Translation: Mr. Basketball doesn't mean jack $hit. Certainly doesn't make or break someone in regards to whether they can play or not.

Phillips sucked this year, he did the best he could despite the circumstances and talent around him.

Garrett Callahan (Seneca) had a tremendous High School career. Two-time allstater (1st team) finished with an unbeaten state title. he will get a scholarship somewhere. Prob D-II.

Because his team was far superior and he had many more individual accolades than Eldridge, does that make him the better college prospect???

No

If Eldridge tanks, (doubtful) then we will all know you were right all along. I can tell you this there are many many more people that like Eldridge's game/talent than do not.

I know Jim Les liked his game quite a bit. I am not being a smart-a$$ here, but we can all agree that Les wanted Eldridge badly, right??? Les has proven to be a shrewd talent evaluator/recruiter. If he liked his game and wanted him badly, isn't that enough to satisfy you as to his ability and potential???

[tornado]

I never said Eldridge would "tank", and you know it.

Go back and see that all i said is that it will be hard to live up to the expectations,
as some have already said he will be ISU's best player, he will be a starter, he will be NOY, he will be a star in the Valley.

I am just not yet convinced and said why.

When Bawinkel had one bad game, you say he was embarrassed by a freshman (even though Evans was not the only player guarding
Devan)

You failed to note that the team that beat Bawinkel's team went on to beat all but one of its opponents on the way to a STATE TITLE by pretty healthy margins.

Did Phillips get embarrassed by the state champ on its way in the playoffs?? Of course not--they never even got out of their own regional.
No, they actually got a pretty favorable #8 seed in their region even though their record could hardly have supported being seeded #8 out of 21 teams.
Phillips must have had few other representatives in their pockets when they went to the seeding meeting.
None the less, even though they had a nice seed, they couldn't do a thing.

By the way, Osiris didn't do nearly as well this year in the Dunk Contest, and failed to even advance beyond the preliminary round to defend his title.

[DannyCooksey]

By the way, Osiris didn't do nearly as well this year in the Dunk Contest, and failed to even advance beyond the preliminary round to defend his title

who cares???

[DannyCooksey]

Did Phillips get embarrassed by the state champ on its way in the playoffs?? Of course not--they never even got out of their own regional

you are correct they lost to the 3rd place team. Marshall. is that embarrasing????

[DannyCooksey]

I am just not yet convinced and said why.

yep. he didn't get any Mr. Basketball votes and the compettiton he played was weak and that his team sucked.

plus the summer events are non-defense leagues. the dunks are a product of that. he had inflated stats because of a poor team. he didn't dominate.

he did a bad job at this year's dunk contest, too.

I am sure you are relieved you won't have this guy on your team. I get it.