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UNI gets bad news- caution... off topic Covid/vaccine discussion
- Thread starter braves16
- Start date
It is interested how the topic of "UNI gets bad news" has morphed into vaccine opinions. Today, few people reject the polio vaccine, but there was resistance to it when it was first made and there were serious problems in the manufacture. Science evolves over time. I trust most people of science over most people in politics.
Canton BU fan
Member
Polio vaccine has been proven to work while the covid vaccine has not
Yes, you are right. The polio vaccine was based on a long-proven type of vaccine technology using direct antigen (actual viral protein parts or inactivated viruses) to provoke an immune response that our immune systems are normally quite efficient at doing. It has lead to a near eradication of polio worldwide, which used to kill or paralyze as many as half a million people worldwide each year.
The new Covid vaccines use a completely new vaccine technology that delivers messenger RNA (a foreign protein similar to DNA) that enters our cells and programs our own DNA to create proteins that simulate parts of the Coronavirus. That in turn is designed to "trick" our bodies into producing antibodies against the virus.
No previous vaccines or other treatments have ever manipulated our cells' DNA like this before, and we have no long term studies to know if the manipulating of our DNA could lead to lasting effects in our immune system, or other long term side effects.
The Covid vaccines have been less effective than hoped mostly because the SARS-CoV-2 (the correct name for the Covid virus) continues to mutate quickly,
The influenza virus does something similar, which is why we need updated flu vaccines each year.
PhiAlphaBoy
Member
Yes, you are right. The polio vaccine was based on a long-proven type of vaccine technology using direct antigen (actual viral protein parts or inactivated viruses) to provoke an immune response that our immune systems are normally quite efficient at doing. It has lead to a near eradication of polio worldwide, which used to kill or paralyze as many as half a million people worldwide each year.
Everyone got the polio vaccine when it came out so polio was stopped dead in its tracks. Because our country has become so fractured and everything politicized through social media the same national response (regretfully) did not happen with COVID. This enabled COVID to live on and mutate to the point that the initial vaccine became ineffective, which is why a new vaccine is being introduced now. Perhaps if everyone reacted as they did with polio we would not be having this discussion. Refusal to be vaccinated and where masks (among other things) at the outset ended up causing millions of Americans to needlessly die.
The new Covid vaccines use a completely new vaccine technology that delivers messenger RNA (a foreign protein similar to DNA) that enters our cells and programs our own DNA to create proteins that simulate parts of the Coronavirus. That in turn is designed to "trick" our bodies into producing antibodies against the virus.
No previous vaccines or other treatments have ever manipulated our cells' DNA like this before, and we have no long term studies to know if the manipulating of our DNA could lead to lasting effects in our immune system, or other long term side effects.
This "new" messenger RNA vaccine technology has been studied and developed for well over 30 years and has been proven safe, so stop spreading misinformation. Read and learn :!: :idea:--
https://www.nature.com/articles/s12276-022-00757-5 :idea:
The Covid vaccines have been less effective than hoped mostly because the SARS-CoV-2 (the correct name for the Covid virus) continues to mutate quickly,
The influenza virus does something similar, which is why we need updated flu vaccines each year.
other than Covid can you name a single "mRNA" vaccine that has ever been approved, released onto the market for use or tried in any other setting than extremely limited studies? (Answer- nope, there are none) And NEVER in history was an mRNA vaccine ever even tested on a human until 2013 - and even then only in extremely rare cases of rabies. And NONE were ever given to anyone under the age of 18 until just two years ago and none given to children under 12 until just one year ago.
- so there's simply no way to make the claim they are safe if they've never been given to any significant sized group of people.
(recall the "swine flu vaccine" was declared safe but then resulted in over 100,000 cases of Guillian-Barre that paralyzed people and killed more than the swine flu itself ever killed. In retrospect the vaccine was NOT thoroughly tested before being approved and declared "safe". It was NOT safe nor would it ever be given again)
btw- some of the vaccines initially approved for children & deemed "safe", have now been removed from the approved list due to safety concerns!
The Johnson & Johnson vaccine isn't even available at all in the US (after previously being approved and deemed "safe")
and has been banned completely due to safety issues.
The Janssen vaccine which was initially approved was later banned from use in children due to thrombocytopenia - a serious, sometimes fatal, side effect. So some would say that they idea of proclaiming them "safe" with such little data is fraught with problems.
also- one suggestion - do not use "google" as your search engine when trying to find out about vaccines, especially issues, problems, side effects and failures. Google has been proven to be vigorously censoring certain results in favor of the vaccine industry and hiding reports of adverse effects.
The claim that mRNA vaccines have been around a long time and proven safe is not correct (see final paragraph).
First, the persistence of the coronavirus is not due to the "fractured" or politicized country. In fact, the US had one of the highest percentages of people who were vaccinated (over 70%), and yet had by far the most cases and the most deaths attributed to Covid. On the other end of the spectrum, Haiti did not vaccinate anyone, nobody wore masks, and there were no lockdowns, yet they have one of the lowest case rate and death rate in the world-
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/05/04/992544022/one-of-the-worlds-poorest-countries-has-one-of-the-worlds-lowest-covid-death-rat#:~:text=Haiti%20has%20one%20of%20the,of%20just %2022%20per%20million.
Most African countries had extremely low numbers of their population vaccinated, and yet the pandemic barely affected those countries-
https://healthpolicy.fsi.stanford.edu/news/how-has-africa-largely-evaded-covid-19-pandemic-0
The reality is that the vaccines just were not very effective in provoking effective immunity or preventing the disease.
As was mentioned, for nearly the last 2 years, more cases of Covid have been in vaccinated people than in unvaccinated, even when adjusted for the percentages of people vaccinated. Natural immunity has proven to be a far better protection against the disease. Most of us probably know vaccinated individuals who have gotten Covid, 2, 3, or 4 times. Jill Biden and Whoopie Goldberg, who both just revealed they have Covid for the 3rd time, are just a couple examples of the innumerable cases of "breakthrough" Covid in fully vaccinated people. That happens rarely in those with natural immunity.
And yes, mRNA technology goes back decades. But what we are using today is quite new, and long term testing has yet to be done.
The very first time that mRNA vaccines were ever given to humans was in 2013, and they failed because the human body eliminated the "foreign" mRNA quickly, before it could produce an immune response. It was not until the introduction of nanoparticles with the Pfizer and Moderna Covid vaccines that shielded and allowed the mRNA to successfully imbed into the human DNA. Those vaccines date back only 3 years. So this current mRNA vaccine technology that successfully imbeds mRNA into our cells and incorporates it into our DNA is very much new, and no long term testing has been done on humans.
We are the guinea pigs-
Role of nanotechnology behind the success of mRNA vaccines for COVID-19
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7997390/
First, the persistence of the coronavirus is not due to the "fractured" or politicized country. In fact, the US had one of the highest percentages of people who were vaccinated (over 70%), and yet had by far the most cases and the most deaths attributed to Covid. On the other end of the spectrum, Haiti did not vaccinate anyone, nobody wore masks, and there were no lockdowns, yet they have one of the lowest case rate and death rate in the world-
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/05/04/992544022/one-of-the-worlds-poorest-countries-has-one-of-the-worlds-lowest-covid-death-rat#:~:text=Haiti%20has%20one%20of%20the,of%20just %2022%20per%20million.
Most African countries had extremely low numbers of their population vaccinated, and yet the pandemic barely affected those countries-
https://healthpolicy.fsi.stanford.edu/news/how-has-africa-largely-evaded-covid-19-pandemic-0
The reality is that the vaccines just were not very effective in provoking effective immunity or preventing the disease.
As was mentioned, for nearly the last 2 years, more cases of Covid have been in vaccinated people than in unvaccinated, even when adjusted for the percentages of people vaccinated. Natural immunity has proven to be a far better protection against the disease. Most of us probably know vaccinated individuals who have gotten Covid, 2, 3, or 4 times. Jill Biden and Whoopie Goldberg, who both just revealed they have Covid for the 3rd time, are just a couple examples of the innumerable cases of "breakthrough" Covid in fully vaccinated people. That happens rarely in those with natural immunity.
And yes, mRNA technology goes back decades. But what we are using today is quite new, and long term testing has yet to be done.
The very first time that mRNA vaccines were ever given to humans was in 2013, and they failed because the human body eliminated the "foreign" mRNA quickly, before it could produce an immune response. It was not until the introduction of nanoparticles with the Pfizer and Moderna Covid vaccines that shielded and allowed the mRNA to successfully imbed into the human DNA. Those vaccines date back only 3 years. So this current mRNA vaccine technology that successfully imbeds mRNA into our cells and incorporates it into our DNA is very much new, and no long term testing has been done on humans.
We are the guinea pigs-
Role of nanotechnology behind the success of mRNA vaccines for COVID-19
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7997390/
bradleyfan124
Well-known member
Can we get off this political crap. I see enough of this on TV. This is a sports forum for Bradley
LongTimeFan
Active member
This happens when there isn't much Bradley basketball news to discuss.
Canton BU fan
Member
I'd say it has relevance with the possibility of not being allowed to attend games again or restrictions at least.
algotrader
New member
But you own the site so let me guess you get to? :lol:
MacabreMob
New member
I believe this discussion is relevant to Bradley and all of college basketball as we discuss a health issue for the athletes.
I think discussion & debate about things like this are perfectly fine & even healthy and PERFECTLY CONSISTENT with what science is.
I have no problem at all with people presenting opposing viewpoints or argument . I don't want them silenced, shut down or banned.
So it puzzles me why supposed experts, the media and the government worked overtime to suppress, censor, eliminate and even prosecute opposing viewpoints. (Does it not make you curious that the vaccine companies have sealed away their research and safety data so nobody can see it for 75 years!)
I have no problem at all with people presenting opposing viewpoints or argument . I don't want them silenced, shut down or banned.
So it puzzles me why supposed experts, the media and the government worked overtime to suppress, censor, eliminate and even prosecute opposing viewpoints. (Does it not make you curious that the vaccine companies have sealed away their research and safety data so nobody can see it for 75 years!)
Everyone gets to (within the rules)... nobody's opinions have been censored.
In fact, it is only your side that appears to be pro-censorship, and in favor of punishing anyone who disagrees
THANK YOU for shutting down the wackjob, anti-vaxer nonsense BUfan. People need to get the facts before they open their piehole!
And if anyone thinks I am anti-vaccine, you would be wrong. Just check out some of my previous posts regarding vaccines-
https://www.bradleyfans.com/forum/s...ness-bracket-and-schedule?p=502041#post502041
https://www.bradleyfans.com/forum/s...souri-state-66-bradley-69?p=369414#post369414
https://www.bradleyfans.com/forum/s...souri-state-66-bradley-69?p=369693#post369693
I am very much pro-vaccine. However, the current Covid vaccines are vastly different than any previous vaccines. They contain a much different technology than any prior available vaccine. They were rushed through testing and approved under emergency circumstances with far less scrutiny and testing than they deserved. For the first time in history, people were forced to take them and punished for refusing with loss of their jobs, loss of their freedoms, and other severe penalties. Side effects have been hidden from the public. And there have been no long term studies.
People should be informed of the facts. However, as pointed out, our government officials (Biden, Fauci, Walensky, Birx, Collins, and others) have downplayed the current ineffectiveness of the vaccine, and the potential for side effects. In case you missed it, here are just a few-
https://www.bradleyfans.com/forum/s...-covid-vaccine-discussion?p=512161#post512161
Here is a paragraph from the prescribing information included with Pfizer's own Covid vaccine. Has anyone heard any of the medical professionals promoting the Covid vaccines tell you this?
Often, where there is big government (taxpayer funding), there are special interests that lobby for this money to enrich themselves first over analyzing cost vs benefit ratios. It is not just in health care , but millions have wasted on military projects that have little or no value. Bridges get built to nowhere and grants are allocated to questionable research. But, it was difficult in the early Covid outbreak for politicians to make the call on the best course of action. Personally, i believe the leaders in China are responsible for not communicating with other scientists as to the seriousness of the outbreak in China.
Once upon a time you could come to Bradleyfans.com and read or talk about Bradley basketball. It gave us an opportunity to flee the division within our country. Since some are now talking about vaccines instead of Bradley basketball, this has become the perfect prescription to destroy this website and turn people off!
PhiAlphaBoy
Member
There are probably thousands of other threads and this one is clearly marked "OT"... scroll on to another thread, no one is forcing you to read or comment on this one.
Just think how much worse "the division" might become if our governing powers decide they want to re-impose masking, vaccine passports, school closures, travel restrictions, event cancellations, and business shutdowns again, especially since we now have a preponderance of evidence that they all did far more harm than good.
PhiAlphaBoy
Member
I think this would be disastrous for any politician who did this and destroy their chance for re-election. I don't see this happening again on a national scale.