Midstatehoops final 2007 rankings

[scout4126]

http://www.midstatehoops.com/players/final07.html

Maniscalco ends up #25 as a 3star and the #8 rated pg in the state.

Other recruits BU recruited:
Fay #8
Watt #9
Bocot #12
Dunson #13
Martin #18
Flowers #26
Thompson #29
Dehm #50

Illinois Wesleyan commit Travis Rosencrantz is rated #41 over DI committed Dwight McCombs (Miami-OH), Josh Parker (Drake), and Justin Dehm (Furman). Also, Class A players Kreps (UIC) and O'Rear (UNI) aren't rated.

Just getting opinions. I'll state mine later.

[Daniel Poneman]

Brandon Dunson is a friend of mine, and he is a great kid and a great hooper, but to have him ranked #13 ahead of Pullen Johnson, Cole, Flowers, Maniscalco, and others is almost comical.
Watt is good, but theres no way that he is top 15. He is not a high major talent and guys like Bill Cole and Tim Flowers clearly are!
Flowers is the most productive post player in that class, and though he isnt overflowing with potential he is the best right now, and to have him #26, a few spots behind Jeff Jordan, is rediculous.
I dont know if you noticed this, but Kevin Johnson, the guy who went for 20 and 9 on Oak Hill, isnt even on the list!!! He could make it the the NBA!!! Have these guys ever watched basketball???
24 mike stovall 25 sam maniscalco 29 mike thompson 33 mike capocci...
I understand them having sammy at #25 for one reason:
They obviously have not seen him play! On paper, a 6-1 PG that isnt super athletic and isnt a three point specialist doesnt seem to be a top 20 player. I thought of Sam as a top 20 player at best too, until i saw him at the Proviso West tournament and he was scoring on PE at will.
having stovall at 24 makes me laugh, because last night i talked to a former pro who trained stovall for the last week, and he said this : "I have seen a lot of basketball in illinois, and trained a lot of kids, and im surprised i havent heard much about this stovall kid because i think he is the best i've had. We did a dunking drill and he blew me away. I think with the right coaching he will be a pro."
Juice at 29 and Capocci at 33 means they have a grudge against northwestern.
I could go on for hours talking about how they put a kid who went NAIA because he didnt get any D1 offers and Lewis U got a guy they liked better over guys with high major offers, or talking about how he put a D3 kid over 3 D-1 kids that play his same position and are better, but i will stop here and give you one final complaint.
Dwight Mccombs at #45 is a joke. Mccombs has almost a 7-0 wingspan, and if he had waited until the late period to commit he wouldve had a lot of high major offers. With the right nurturing, D'wight can be an NBA SF and these guys ranked him #45, and despite all the potential he has they gave him 2 stars..... WOW!

[tornado]

I guess each is entitled to their opinions....

But clearly if you play in and around Chicago, or have played in any of the numerous "exposure" events in and around Chicago, or are a prep schooler, then you will be listed substantially higher.

Mike Capocci is good, but Lucas O'Rear is just as good.
and Ray Sims (from Boys to Men) at #43 ahead of Parker, Dehm, Kreps, O'Rear, Hobbie...?

Ray Sims was at Boys to Men last season but pretty much played on their "B" team. Also he is a "post grad" student and was Class of 2006, so he doesn't even belong in here.
He played behind Jeremiah Kelly and others.

[DUBulldog]

Re: Midstatehoops final 2007 rankings

Illinois Wesleyan commit Travis Rosencrantz is rated #41 over DI committed Dwight McCombs (Miami-OH), Josh Parker (Drake), and Justin Dehm (Furman). Also, Class A players Kreps (UIC) and O'Rear (UNI) aren't rated.

They also don't check facts, apparently....on Josh Parker's profile, it says:

Additional Notes:
Son of Sonny Parker

This might come as quite a shock to Josh's father. Sonny Parker is a friend of the family, but no relation. My sources on this are absolutely impeccable.

[scout4126]

Poneman, no offense but you're 15 years old and these guys are on the nomination staff for the McDonald's All-American Game. I think I'd trust their opinion a little more than them .

If you saw Dunson play within the last season. He scored 40+ on the Adam Allen (signed with Florida) last season and averaged 27 pts for one of the better AAU teams in the state. He also put up a near triple-double this season. You obviously haven't seen him play.

Flowers is a very good player but shys away from contact when people go head to head with him. I just don't see him doing much in college.

Watt will be a very, very good college player. Mark my words. If he had just a little more perimeter skill, he would be a top 5 player in his class to me. Have you seen him?

Kevin Johnson in the NBA? That's comical. Now he may have been good enough to break a top 50 list but there's no way he'll play in the league.

I agree that Maniscalco should be higher as well as Thompson and Stovall. I also like Mccombs a lot. He's a very solid player. Top 25 in my opinion.

But overall, I think they did a very good job.

[scout4126]

On a sidenote the article before states that UNI landed John Moran (2008 Illinois Wolves PG)

http://www.midstatehoops.com/articles/2007/moran.html

[Daniel Poneman]

I told you i think Brandon is a very good player and i have seen him a few times, and he told me all about how he put in 40 on Allen but he is not top 15 player.

You are sadly mistaken if you think flowers shys away from contact. He is one of the most physical players in Illinois.

Watt is very good and i have seen him over a dozen times. He rebounds better then anyone this side of Flowers, and he will never play on the perimeter.

Johnson and Mccombs have as much upside as anyone in the class...

How could you possibly leave off O'rear and Kreps?!?!?!?! They are 2 of the top players in class A, and Kreps was 2nd in MR Basketball voting!!!

I may be 15, but i am a 15 year old that sees a lot more BBall then them which is evident by these rankings

[georgethedog]

Re: Midstatehoops final 2007 rankings

http://www.midstatehoops.com/players/final07.html

Maniscalco ends up #25 as a 3star and the #8 rated pg in the state.

Other recruits BU recruited:
Fay #8
Watt #9
Bocot #12
Dunson #13
Martin #18
Flowers #26
Thompson #29
Dehm #50

Illinois Wesleyan commit Travis Rosencrantz is rated #41 over DI committed Dwight McCombs (Miami-OH), Josh Parker (Drake), and Justin Dehm (Furman). Also, Class A players Kreps (UIC) and O'Rear (UNI) aren't rated.

Just getting opinions. I'll state mine later.

Maniscalco as the #8 point guard in the state? That's terrible and probably very wrong! I hope he is better than the rating, and I am sure he is or Jim would not have recruited him.

[dogsrus]

Daniel...NOT that you asked for my advice but I guess age sometimes brings a certain amout of wisdom (through experience from all those mistakes).

Its wonderful that you have so much conviction and passion about YOUR picks.

It does you no good though to rip others. A "respectful" disagreeing will gain you many more "fans" IMO.

I had a very successful and shrewd Peoria businessman who I worked for tell me that "running down" the competition will do you more harm then good. He said this to me after hearing me blasting my competition to a perspective client.

I spent SOOOO much time downgrading the "others" I had no time left to sell them on what I had. It made me appear I was "worried" about how good they (my rival) were.

"Sell" what you have and let the readers decide. IF you disagree with the others go ahead and point it out, state your reasons and move on. Using words/phrases like "comical" or "a joke" reflects worse on you IMO then those its directed at.

YOU do a great job....sell yourself WITHOUT trying to bring down your "rivals".

JMHO.

[chitownBUB]

Re: Midstatehoops final 2007 rankings

http://www.midstatehoops.com/players/final07.html

Maniscalco ends up #25 as a 3star and the #8 rated pg in the state.

Other recruits BU recruited:
Fay #8
Watt #9
Bocot #12
Dunson #13
Martin #18
Flowers #26
Thompson #29
Dehm #50

Illinois Wesleyan commit Travis Rosencrantz is rated #41 over DI committed Dwight McCombs (Miami-OH), Josh Parker (Drake), and Justin Dehm (Furman). Also, Class A players Kreps (UIC) and O'Rear (UNI) aren't rated.

Just getting opinions. I'll state mine later.

My take on the top 50-
First, since no player from Boys to Men has done anything yet at the college level, even though they were hyped to smithereens (insert Thijin Moses, Xavier Crawford) then I wouldn't rate Mac Koshwal at #2.


If Demond Watt is a top 10 player ahead of Big Ten and MVC recruits, then how come nobody outside of Texas A&M Corpus Christi went after him very hard?


Bocot and Dunson are way too high, same thing about Bloomington HS kids, they never seen to do anything in college.

Dehm and Cole almost knocked off Derrick Rose and his other two D-I teammates and they were only juniors, so how come they are raetd so low?

[scout4126]

Let me clear some of this up.

To DP:

Kreps getting voted that high was very much a political thing and everyone knows it. Not saying he???‚¬?„?s a bad player but he is nowhere near a top 30 player in the state. He may be top 50, but don???‚¬?„?t act like he???‚¬?„?s top 2. Every Class A person who got a vote voted for him, that???‚¬?„?s why he finished 2nd. He was barely a top 5 player in Class A ball. Tisdale, Fay, Dunson, and O???‚¬?„?Rear all received at least 10 more scholarship offers than Kreps did.

McCombs is a 6???‚¬?„?7???‚¬?? center and Kevin Johnson is a 6???‚¬?„?6???‚¬?? power forward???‚¬?¦where???‚¬?„?s the upside?

O???‚¬?„?Rear was good enough to get on the list, I won???‚¬?„?t debate that one.

You must not have watched Flowers on the AAU circuit against bigger, beefier guys. He wasn???‚¬?„?t a factor! He did good against some of the higher named competition but what you fail to realize, he did well against the 6???‚¬?„?9???‚¬?? 215 pounders, not the 6???‚¬?„?8???‚¬?? 265 pounders.

Watt and Lonnie Lawrence are the state???‚¬?„?s two best rebounders, period. Even Brian from Chicago Hoops agrees with that along with Scott Powers. They???‚¬?„?ve both stated it as did Midstate.

As far as chitownBUB goes:

Koshwal not at least #2 in the state? Your opinion is invalid with that statement. That???‚¬?„?s something clear enough to be stated as a fact. He???‚¬?„?s rated top 20 in the nation!

I suggest you watch some video of Justin Bocot. Averaged 20, 6, and 4 for a very respectable team with other Division I talent.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7Jke_WYDZH4

I suggest you watch some video of Brandon Dunson. Averaged 15, 10, and 5 for a respectable team with other Division I talent.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZV8ItxdoQrM

I don???‚¬?„?t see how you can judge the Bloomington HS players. They???‚¬?„?ve only been in college for a year or two. Dodie Dunson was a part-time starter for a Big XII school and had a solid freshman campaign. Don???‚¬?„?t see what???‚¬?„?s ???‚¬?“nothing???‚¬?? about that. Brandon Holtz had a very good freshman campaign at Illinois State as a part time starter.

Demond Watt had over 15 offers from Division I schools including Northwestern and a ton of schools in the MVC and Atlantic 10!

Not trying to defend midstatehoops but you all have made some ignorant statements. Though you may not agree, don???‚¬?„?t defend yourselves with lies and try to down your competition to earn brownie points for your site (in DP???‚¬?„?s case).

[chitownBUB]

scout, I am fully aware Koshwal is rated high by lots of people,
but I am not going to just echo other people's thoughts, as
apparently you expect me to.

I am coming up with my own opinions, something lots of the
raters just don't do, they feed off other people's opinions and
don't go watch the kids themselves. Sometimes they even
seem to draw their opinions from Youtube videos
I have seen Koshwal, Bocot, Dunson, etc. several times.

Here, I have a question for you.
If you were rating high schoolers in 2004, where would you
have rated Robert Swift?
Everyone and their grandmothers had the guy top 10 or top 20
nationally, Rivals and scout had him 5-star, and he went in the
first round of the NBA draft to Seattle in a lottery pick.
But he was so bad they essentially gave up on him right away
and drafted a center in 2005 (Petro) and 2006 (Sene) with
their top picks, and they are still so bad that they have the top
pick again this year and will probably take another center
named Oden.
But, I saw Swift play and I happened to have a different opinion.
I thought he was a big, flatfooted stiff and that he was
overrated big time. Sure his size alone might get him a few
years in the NBA but he was way overrated by the national folks,
probably because they only saw him on Youtube.
Guess who was right, and maybe in a couple years I will be
shown right about Koshwal. He will have the potential to be a
solid player but not dominant.
By the time he gets to college, everyone else will have a 22-
year old body (like he has now playing against 18 year olds.)

I saw most of the other Boys to Men kids playing and thought a
lot of them were overrated such as Moses, Relphorde, Brackins,
even Holloway. Keep in mind, these guys are all 20 and older
still playing in high school, which gives them a huge advantage,
kind of like the varsity playing against the JV.

Koshwal, like a lot of the prep kids, looks better and is rated
higher because he is 2-3 years older than the competition.
In college, that won't be the case, as Thijin Moses is finding
out the hard way.
I never said Koshwal is a bad player, just that he isn't the 2nd
best in the state.

As for Bocot and Dunson, come on scout- you should know
that highlight reel dunks don't mean much when a kid gets to college.
I have seen those U-tube videos, and I have seen both play for
real, and yet their teams still struggle against mediocre competition.
How many games have they ever won beyond their regional?
Holtz is buried deep on the bench of a perennial bottom
dwelling team that can't find scoring anywhere, and Dodie
averaged 5 points, one asst in 22.3 minutes, but isn't even
there at Iowa State anymore.

In 2005, when Bloomington HS had Four D-I kids playing on the
court (both Dunsons, Holtz, Bocot) along with a D-II kid
(Lawrence) and D-III (Hainlen), they couldn't even win a game
in their own regional. Sorry, I am not impressed by the hype.
Whenever they've played other big schools in tournies, they come up short.

Maybe you are impressed by what the other people say in their
rankings, and by You tube highlight dunks, but I watched those
kids play in real games and my assessment is made on their
abilities to help their teams win games, not on their ability to
look good when they are on the court all by themselves.
Do you also think Brian Stinnett is dead wrong?
He doesn't have Bocot in the top 10, and he has Dunson #35.
Rivals has him in the 20's.
And you are saying Brandon Dunson had more than 10 scholarship offers?
And he whittled them down and chose Chattanooga?

[scout4126]

I've seen them all play numerous times.

Koshwal is dominant now and will be in the future. People can say what they want about his age but I guarantee you he will still be dominating competition in college. His skillset is amazing.

I've never liked Robert Swift as a player. He's always been overrated IMO. Same with Brian Butch and Mustapha Shakur. Also, I bet you thought Dee Brown was better than Iguodala like many others did...

Brackins is the real deal. None of the other B2M players were very good IMO anyway.

According to Rivals.com???‚¬?„?s Jerry Meyer, Dunson had 12 offers.

http://rivalshoops.rivals.com/content.asp?SID=910&CID=588165

Dunson led his team to two sectional championship appearances and Bocot led his team to one sectional championship appearance and one super sectional appearance???‚¬?¦so what???‚¬?„?s your point?

[tornado]

nobody is required to prove a point, but opinions do vary...

There has been a ton on Koshwal all over the recruiting services, but a kid still has to prove their worth in college, and there have been a few overtouted kids that never seem to live up to the hype. With Koshwal, the hype has been so dominant, the kid will actually have a hard time living up to it.
Certainly I can think of a few others who haven't been able to produce at expected, Brian Randle, JR Giddens, and sadly Sebastian Telfair.

As for Dodie Dunson, given an extra prep school year and the caliber of teams that went after him
(Big Ten, Big XII, Big East), I'd say he has yet to prove he was worth the rankings he was given.


Here is an interesting flashback...

This is actually the oldest remaining thread on BradleyFans...

http://www.bradleyfans.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=11a

Look who then were the top two rated kids are in our area...
If there's a proof that skepticism does indeed have its place, this is it!
Dodie Dunson and Jamar Smith.
Anyone who'd have put their money on those two kids being instant successes at college would have lost their wad....