Midstate Hoops latest listing of point guards

[Da Coach]

MidstateHoops.com has released their 2007 Point Guard rankings. It is a little comical. I'd love to know what Daniel Poneman thinks.
They list Sam Maniscalco #8, just behind Illinois walk-on Jeff Jordan and Western Illinois' Ceola Clark, and just ahead of a string of non-division I kids.

http://www.midstatehoops.com/players/07pgs.html

But then they list the #2 point guard as Mustapha Farrakhan, who is not a point guard. I searched the web and couldn't find anyone who mentions Farrakhan as a PG. In fact, even MidstateHopps themselves list him as a shooting guard as recently as 3 months ago--

http://www.midstatehoops.com/articles/2007/early.html

http://rivalshoops.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=2&pr_key=56291

http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=8&c=1&nid=1968064

In their head-to-head matchups, Sam outplayed #3 Demetri McCamey.
ChicagoHoops.com, which I believe is more legitimate, ranks Sam the #10 player in the state in the class of 2007, and he is the #4 point guard behind Rose, McCamey, and Pullen.

http://www.chicagohoops.com/articles1/2007rankings.html

And www.Illinoishsbasketball.com (Daniel Poneman's site) which also is a more believeable site because Daniel personally watches these guys a lot more than some sites do, lists Sam #13, and he is the #5 point guard behind Rose, McCamey, Pullen, and Aaron Johnson--

http://www.freewebs.com/chipatsj23h/topcommittedseniors07.htm

It'll be fun to see how these guys turn out over the next few years, and we'll revisit these rankings.

[tornado]

Since Da Coach and I have also seen many of these kids, I think I will post my own personal rankings.

Here are my rankings of Illinois point guards - regardless of the class they are in.
(non-PG's like McCamey and Farrakhan are not listed. They might be better described as combo guards or 2-guards)

1-Derrick Rose, sr
2-Lewis Jackson, jr
3-Sam Maniscalco, sr
4-Verdell Jones, jr
5-Kevin Dillard, jr
6-Jacob Pullen, sr
7-James Kinney, so
8-Ty Nurse, jr
9-DeAndre McCamey, fr
10-DJ Cooper, so
11-D'Mitri Riggs, so
12-Aaron Johnson, sr
13-Michael Thompson, sr
14-Robert Kreps, sr
15-Justin Dehm, sr
16-Darius Smith, so
17-Isaih Williams, jr
18-Jeff Jordan, sr
19-AJ Rompza, jr
20-Josh Parker, sr
21-Mike Dinnuno, jr
22-Jon Rice, sr
23-Cully Payne, so
24-Michael Horton, sr
25-Kenyon Smith, jr

Daniel Poneman, any thoughts?

[Daniel Poneman]

I was hoping that someone would post this, because as a journalist i dont like bashing others work and i already did some of that on their post rankings, but since you insisted....

My reasons why those ranking suck:
1) Mustapha Farrakahn is a Shooting Guard. I have seen him play about a dozen times, and i dont think i have ever seen him take the ball up the floor. He is a pure shooter, and Leito recruited him to be a 2 at Virginia.
2) Farrakahn is good, as i have him ranked as the #14 player in the state for the class of 07 (#4 ranked wing), but he isnt on the same level as guys like Pullen and Mccamey. Farrakahn can shoot, and he has a great feel for the game, but he is not overwhelmingly athletic, isnt great off the dribble, and isnt a great defender. That is why he was ranked in the 20's untiul last summer, and didnt get any high major offers until very late in the game, while pullen had around 10 high majors drooling over him after the nike camp (the one that Farrakahn also attended and was clearly not as good as Pullen in), and McCamey had the likes of Illinois and Wake Forest on him since the summer after his sophomore year. McCamey is going to be a starter his freshman year at illinois, and has a legit shot at making the league. Pullen was the heart and sole of one of the top teams in the state, has just as good a shot as farrakahn, is a pure PG, and did i mention i picked him as defensive player of the year???
3) To have Jeff Jordan and Ceola Clark above Sammy Maniscalco and Juice Thompson is almost comical. Sammy Maniscalco is the only guy i have seen OUTPLAY Pullen (at the proviso west tournament- PE won, but Sammy had 12 in the first Q but ran out of gas).. (i have seen Mccamey and him go point for point but st joes always won). Juice was on Ceola and Jeffs AAU team, and the same scouts that came and watched him during the summer watched jeff and ceola in the same game, so dont you find it weird that those scouts offered "juice" instead of offering ceola and jeff- the "better" players? The reason is because Juice is better! Juice is playing in the Big Ten, Sam is playing at Bradley by choice (if he had waited he couldve gone "high major" but as you all know he had his heart set on being a brave), and yet they rank a walk on and a low-mid major kid ahead of them...
4) they rank Horton, Parker, Dehm, and Kreps as 17 18 19 20. First off, Dehm is a shooting guard, and he finished 2nd in this years state three point contest. Parker and Horton are both D-1 players and Parker especially is a top 10 PG. Kreps finished 2nd in this years mr basketball voting, and lead his team to a class A championship despite having apendicitis the week before and missing the regional game. To have him at #20 is an insult to Illinois High School Basketball.......


Sorry if i rambled, but i get passionate about this kind of thing. If you havent seen em, dont try and rank em!

[Daniel Poneman]

Tornado, I just saw your list, but I gotta get to class! comment on it later...

[Da Coach]

Ceola Clark is listed by many sites as a shooting guard also, not a point guard--

http://www.chicagohoops.com/2007profiles/clark-ceola.html

Scout.com also lists him as a shooting guard--

http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=8&c=1&nid=2122717

He played some PG, and is probably a combo guard, but he didn't have much interest from higher div I schools. I hope Bradley didn't miss the boat by going for Sam.

[tornado]

Tornado, I just saw your list, but I gotta get to class! comment on it later...

Good decision Daniel, I wouldn't recommend wasting time on BradleyFans if you have to get to class!

Keep those grades up so you don't end up with writing skills like this:

lol u people are **** dumb, I just got off the phone with him, and he is going to some school in the big 12, damm people think about who we just loss, a damm good player. but all i know that he didnt leave b/c of that rumor for pot

A fine example of college kids using the English language

PS, I have seen Justin Dehm more than anyone else on the list since he plays right here in Peoria, and he does indeed often play point guard. Richwoods utilizes 2 or 3 guards who play simultaneously and share PG duties, but Dehm definitely can play the point and does.
At 6-1 I suspect he'll be expected to play point at Furman as well as some SG.

[DUBulldog]

Keep those grades up so you don't end up with writing skills like this:

lol u people are **** dumb, I just got off the phone with him, and he is going to some school in the big 12, damm people think about who we just loss, a damm good player. but all i know that he didnt leave b/c of that rumor for pot

A fine example of a college kid using the English language

LOL, T.....that is actually one of the more literate posts from that poster on The Bluejay Cafe. In a later post, the guy claims that he is Isacc Miles.

[Daniel Poneman]

Tornado's list:

1-Derrick Rose, sr
2-Lewis Jackson, jr
3-Sam Maniscalco, sr
4-Verdell Jones, jr
5-Kevin Dillard, jr
6-Jacob Pullen, sr
7-James Kinney, so
8-Ty Nurse, jr
9-DeAndre McCamey, fr
10-DJ Cooper, so
11-D'Mitri Riggs, so
12-Aaron Johnson, sr
13-Michael Thompson, sr
14-Robert Kreps, sr
15-Justin Dehm, sr
16-Darius Smith, so
17-Isaih Williams, jr
18-Jeff Jordan, sr
19-AJ Rompza, jr
20-Josh Parker, sr
21-Mike Dinnuno, jr
22-Jon Rice, sr
23-Cully Payne, so
24-Michael Horton, sr
25-Kenyon Smith, jr

I must say you have done your homework, and this is a nice list, but there are some changes i would make.
starting from the top... You have to have Dmitri Mccamey on the list! there is no doubt in my mind thatPullen is #2... i love his game. James Kinney is more of a SG, though he plays some 1 for the Stars when Ron Steward isnt in, and Chris Colvin is more of a PG, so i would sub Colvin for Kinney. Dmitri Riggs is also a wing player. I would put Aaron Johnson at #3... he didnt get a lot of exposure as he was in a bad situation at a football school (Hubbard) and could actually be better then Pullen and he could be #2! He was a steal for UAB, as ASU and others were on him and he was the MVP of last years Real Deal in Arkansas. DJ Cooper is awfully high, and though he is very good, to have him ahead of Darius Smith is rediculous. I see smith as the #1 player in the class at the moment, and though others are more athletically skilled in the class (which means as they catch up to his skill level he may move down as low as 6 0r 7th in the rankings) there is no one that produces more then him in the class. I have been his biggest fan ever since i saw him dominate Evanston in the super sectional, scoring 13 first quarter points, and finishing the game wit haround 27 points, 8 assists, and 8 rebounds in a super sectional game. After that i saw him lead Marshall singlehandedly to the final four (they lost to Simeon; Hare made most of his points on freethrows, Stovall had to play in the post, Ardarius Simmons and Dion Stamps played terribly). Most of the sportswriters i was with had him ranked third on thier all tournament list behind Rose and Flowers. He has potential to produce offensively like Patrick Beverly, yet he is the #1 defensive player in the class, hands down ( i believe he was guarding Rose vs. Simeon). His Illinois Hawks also beat the Illinois Stars (strs have Kinney, Richardson. Humphrey, Evans, Demoss... Hawks have him and Tramel Owens). I think the Hawks won something like 60-54, and Smith had around 36 points while shutting down DJ. That is a player right there!
Lastly, Ty Nurse is a soph, not a junior, and doesnt deserve to even look at this list. He is a solid mid-major PG and nothing more. He dominated in canada, and was good running the point for DC because all he needed to do was pass the ball and let his teammates do the rest. Playing for the Illnois stars at 16u state he looked lost on the floor, and was clearly not as good as ron Stewart.
Romza, Dinnuno, and Smith are better then Isiah Williams in my eyes ( Williams didnt do anything for Farragut this year offensively, and he has no offers despite all the exposure his school and AAU team get, while Dinnuno has offers, Rompza has 3, and Smith is offered by Texas A&M and Florida st.)
lastly, Deandre Mccamey is waayy too high.


I know it sounds like i tore the list apart, but really other then the Darius Smith travesty and Ty Nurse being on it, it is a very good list. I would make a few small changes, but good compilation of players. Nice work

[tornado]

DUBulldog, my post was not an effort to rip on the CU board as
they are one of the better boards around, but I did get a laugh
out of a few posts in that thread about Miles.

And Daniel, it's hard to rank all four classes together but I did
and tried to use a bit of potential as well as present talent.
A lot of sites list McCamey as a SG or combo guard but obviously
he does play PG too.

http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:xJzp3eqz-RoJ:www.midstatehoops.com/players/profiles/2007/demetri_mccamey.html+%22demetri+mccamey%22+and+%22shooting+guard%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

http://www.core1training.com/041306_article.html

http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:h6pmCwjEmPQJ:www.dailyillini.com/news/2006/11/09/Sports/Weber.Signs.Three.InState.Recruits-2449127.shtml+%22demetri+mccamey%22+and+%22combo+guard%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=us

http://michigan.scout.com/2/530059.html

So I just did the best I could.

As for Ty Nurse, I saw him play several games and maybe I just
picked the best he had, but I was impressed.
Of course he was overshadowed by Hamga, Stula, and Staiger and other gunners
who took all the shots and hogged the ball because they needed
to get some press and garner D-I offers, but I still think we'll be
hearing more about Nurse in the future.

Any idea where he is going?

And 'Dre McCamey had a really great tourney this weekend at
the Bob Gibbons TOC and I moved him up accordingly, so my list
is actually the most current!

http://www.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/stories/052807aaf.html

PS--Rivals has a new ranking of the Class of 2010 and they have DeAndre McCamey right behind Jereme Richmond

http://illinois.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=678217

[DUBulldog]

DUBulldog, my post was not an effort to rip on the CU board as
they are one of the better boards around, but I did get a laugh
out of a few posts in that thread about Miles.

I know you weren't trying to rip the CU board....I was just laughing because the post you quoted was actually one of the more coherent posts by that particular poster (who later claimed to be Isacc Miles himself).

I also got a laugh from several of the posts in that thread.....if those were indeed college students posting, then we've been doing a horrible job teaching things like grammar and spelling.