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**amckillip** · 03-12-2007, 10:10 AM

How is this commitee decided? I am so shocked at this year, not that Bradley didn't get in, but that there were so few mid major at larges, and I feel even then they screwed those up(ODU over Drexel and MSU). I almost feel if last year was two steps foward and this year is 5 steps back... Grrrr....

**thefish7** · 03-12-2007, 10:15 AM

Yeah, I agree.. Bradley's bid had a major flaw (record against top 50) and we didn't quite put away a few games that would have made us... But the teams that got in are what hurt me, and worry me that next year or a year after we'll have a great resume and get left out because of some situation like this.

**tornado** · 03-12-2007, 10:21 AM

I agree...there is no doubt that the representatives of the power conferences have rallied around
Gary Williams, Digger Phelps, Billy Packer, etc. and have somehow broken the code to stack the NCAA selection committee and keep the mid-majors out.
It is clear they just don't want to suffer through the embarrassment of the BU's beating Kansas (and Pitt) and of the Wichita State's beating Bruce Pearl's Volunteers, and they don't want to split Final Four money with a mid-major ever again.
And they don't want 4 mid-majors ever again in ther Sweet Sixteen (last year we had BU, WSU, George Mason, Gonzaga).
this is obviously the payback the smaller schools get for having the gall to be so danged good.
How dare the schools like Drake and UNI beat Iowa and Iowa State in the same year!
How dare Indiana State - the worst team in the MVC beat a Big Ten school!
How dare teams like Butler beat a bunch of biggies.
And how dare middle of the pack teams like WSU and MSU beat the biggies like Stracuse and Wisconsin.

I am convinced the big-school guys went into this committee with an agenda to keep the mid-majors out.

Look for a trend in future years for guys like Illinois, Iowa, Indiana, Syracuse, etc... to completely avoid ever allowing a Valley team on their schedules again!

**amckillip** · 03-12-2007, 10:24 AM

Originally posted by thefish7

Yeah, I agree.. Bradley's bid had a major flaw (record against top 50) and we didn't quite put away a few games that would have made us... But the teams that got in are what hurt me, and worry me that next year or a year after we'll have a great resume and get left out because of some situation like this.

Exactly, What if were Drexel next year, and see an ODU(say SIU or MSU) get in ahead of us, and lets not even talk about and Arkansas or Stanford! Or what if were like Creighton and see Purdue get a see higher than us. I hope CU and SIU tear up.

I think Creighton has a very tough 7 seed, but a very weak 2 seed in memphis. Then their sweet sixteen teams aren't too bad.

SIU has a VERY doable road to the sweet sixteen, and Bill Self has not been a very good coach under pressure, so anything could happen...

**Majik45** · 03-12-2007, 12:31 PM

I now see why Drexel was left out after reading a little more. It wasn't because of their non-conference games, it was because of their conference games. They finished 4th in their conference and were 1-5 against the top 3 teams in their conference. ODU was definitely in front of them because they finished ahead of them in conference and beat them twice head to head.

Missouri State had the same problem. They were 0-5 against SIU and CU this year.

**randy** · 03-12-2007, 01:46 PM

Originally posted by Majik45

I now see why Drexel was left out after reading a little more. It wasn't because of their non-conference games, it was because of their conference games. They finished 4th in their conference and were 1-5 against the top 3 teams in their conference. ODU was definitely in front of them because they finished ahead of them in conference and beat them twice head to head.

Missouri State had the same problem. They were 0-5 against SIU and CU this year.

This isn't convincing, it just means these teams play in good conferences. Using this logic, Purdue, Illinois etc should be eliminated because they couldn't beat the top teams in their conference. In fact, it's virtually by definition that the top teams in a conference have beaten teams below them.

This is why the non conference play is so important in gauging the 'worthiness' of a team. Look at Drexel's nonconference record and compare it with, say, Purdue or Illinois. Who should be in?

What's disconcerting to me about the selection process is the gradual disavowal of the rpi and other objective criteria. Humans are fallible when it comes to decision-making. When you think of Arkansas you think Nolan Richardson etc--it's hard to put that bias out of your mind when you're comparing them with, say, Drexel or Missouri State (teams that don't readily evoke images of past glories). If you don't rely on objective criteria like the rpi, then natural biases are going to creep into the decision-making. That's what has happened, to the detriment of the sport.

**amckillip** · 03-12-2007, 03:44 PM

Originally posted by randy

Originally posted by Majik45

I now see why Drexel was left out after reading a little more. It wasn't because of their non-conference games, it was because of their conference games. They finished 4th in their conference and were 1-5 against the top 3 teams in their conference. ODU was definitely in front of them because they finished ahead of them in conference and beat them twice head to head.

Missouri State had the same problem. They were 0-5 against SIU and CU this year.

This isn't convincing, it just means these teams play in good conferences. Using this logic, Purdue, Illinois etc should be eliminated because they couldn't beat the top teams in their conference. In fact, it's virtually by definition that the top teams in a conference have beaten teams below them.

This is why the non conference play is so important in gauging the 'worthiness' of a team. Look at Drexel's nonconference record and compare it with, say, Purdue or Illinois. Who should be in?

What's disconcerting to me about the selection process is the gradual disavowal of the rpi and other objective criteria. Humans are fallible when it comes to decision-making. When you think of Arkansas you think Nolan Richardson etc--it's hard to put that bias out of your mind when you're comparing them with, say, Drexel or Missouri State (teams that don't readily evoke images of past glories). If you don't rely on objective criteria like the rpi, then natural biases are going to creep into the decision-making. That's what has happened, to the detriment of the sport.

Very well put, I agree with randy here completely.

**real fan** · 03-12-2007, 04:21 PM

Andy you got it right as the criteria changes for the big schools as far as beating the top teams in their conference; also if all the mid-majors don"t complain about this it will only get worse ; Missouri State beat Wisconsin which is something most of the big 10 teams that are in could not do so how do they explain that ; Drexel deserved to be in period and Arkansas and 6 big ten teams getting in is a joke and smells like a conspiracy.

**houstontxbrave** · 03-12-2007, 10:06 PM

I have been wondering something after all this with the selection and the committee pretty much moving the criteria from play a strong SOS and good RPI and quality opponets to not really sure what they would want the Valley or other so called mid majors to do.

But, would it be in the interest of the non BCS conference schools who are considered Mid major to simply stop scheduling or showing any willingness to play a BCS conference school at all? Non conference games only versus other non mid major school and the BCS conferences can play each other or load up on MEACs of the world. Meaning they get either the high end or the rear end but nothing in the middle.

I dont know but this whole situation with the NCAA is extremely disturbing. The committee had an agenda and was able to pull this agenda off with the appearance of bringing into their tournament the best teams. Each year there are problems but this year the favoring of BCS conferences and schools is appaling.

**bravesonly** · 03-12-2007, 10:20 PM

how bout some addresses and phone numbers to go with those names...

just kidding...kinda

**BTID** · 03-12-2007, 10:41 PM

I read this on a valleytalk thread and couldn't believe my eyes. Collectively, Purdue-Illinois-Indiana-Michigan State went 10-31 in true road games this year. The victories included such "impressive" wins like: Penn State (4 times), Northwestern (3 times), Minnesota (2 times), and Connecticut. Obviously, the number of road wins didn't mean much when it came to some teams. Come to think of it, only Indiana and Michigan State were able to beat Wisconsin. Purdue and Illinois both lost a total of 3 games to the Badgers, and none of them were able to beat Ohio State. Bradley and Missouri State didn't have much success against Creighton or Southern Illinois this year, but they generally beat teams in the lower part of the conference. I guess the committee figured Penn State and Northwestern qualify as "good road wins", but nobody in the MVC gets props for winning at Drake or Indiana State (something Purdue failed to do, but Bradley and Missouri State did). Last year, the committee got ripped for including 3 mid-majors in the field (Bradley, Air Force, Utah State). This year, they are getting heat for including some also-rans from major conferences. One plus for Purdue I guess, is that they scored the highest point total in the Big Ten tournament--a whopping 74 points against Iowa. Overall, that tourney was painful to watch.

**beyondthearc14** · 03-12-2007, 10:44 PM

contact info

I know you where kidding ,but here is some contact info
anyways.

Craig Littlepage
Director of Athletics
McCue Center
P.O. Box 400846
Charlottsville,VA,22904-4846

Phone number=434-982-5100
Fax=434-982-5012

Gary Walters(The chairman of the selection comm.)

walters@princeton.edu

We should write these guys and let them know what we think,
but hopefully we'll be civil when contacting them.

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The Names of the NCAA Selection Committee Members

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