BU goes to 1-0 at Doug Collins Court

[tornado]

I just wanted to start a separate thread that tells a little of what I thought from being at the game in Redbird Arena last night.

FIRST and FOREMOST...what a really, really GREAT ceremony and a totally great crowd.
ISU folks have a fine tradition for the relatively short years they've been D-I, and last night showed that the crowd can and will get behind the team. But what will it take? I have a few thoughts further on down......but

I want to respond to this post from an ISU fan:

Hey BU fans, just wanted to say congrats on the win. We just cant seem to get it done in big rivalry games these days. You guys and SIU own us. Tonight was a huge game for both teams, a good atmosphere and good crowd of over 9200, and you guys came in and got it done. Congrats. You've swept us 2 straight years. Im sure it feels good.

Also, I do want to tip my cap to all the BU fans who stood and/or cheered for Doug Collins at halftime. Not that I was surprised you did, but I thought it was cool and respectful on your part to applaud a basketball legend like Doug. Thanks for showing some good sportsmanship and genuine respect toward the best player to wear a Redbird uniform.

It was a good game tonight. One of these days we'll figure out how to beat you guys again

Congrats on the win. You have a very good team.

phantom, I was one of those Bradley fans sitting right behind the bench who stood both before the game and through halftime for the ceremonies.
Doug was a great player and individual and worthy of the honors. (although I am not quite sure if he was really trying to take some credit for the fact that two Black head coaches are in the superbowl today. )

It is indeed too bad your home team couldn't feed off the energy of your biggest crowd in a while and win one.
I took a large contingent of family and friends to the game and we were pleased with the courtesy and respect the vast majority of the ISU fans showed.
Now all you gotta do is get winning, and I am going to spend the next couple lines telling you how...
(you could try honoring some of your past teams like the ones that got you into the postseason with halftime ceremonies)


First, the single overwhelming observation I have that caused me to feel confident about BU's chances even when we were down by 10 was that your point guard spends 30 seconds out of every 35 seconds on offense just dribbling the ball around in circles then he passes or shoots. I think he passes up numerous assist opportunities.
Just look at the stats....Boo played 36 minutes, and I'll bet the ball was in his hands at least 18 of those minutes and still the guy has only ONE ASSIST! RUN SOME PLAYS to get someone open and then get them the ball!

I guess I have to ask...is this Porter's plan??
If this is Porter's plan then you need a new coach. I never saw one set play when ISU was on offense, just chaotic dribbling all over the place. Very few high screens, and very little motion on offense. BU seemed to know exactly where ISU was going with the ball all the time. If Boo dribbled, then Ruffin hounded him, and if Boo made an entry pass, then BU sagged and doubled on the low post. Dilli was 5-5 in 31 minutes, but why only 5 shots (a couple of which came off broken plays and were NOT part of your offense.)?

My final thought is that either Porter has to do some coaching, or you gotta get another point guard.

ISU made 5 of their first 6 3-pointers, then ended the game 8-24 from 3-point range. That means over the final 35 minutes of the game, the 'Birds hit only 3 of 18. So that leads me to say only one more thing, in all due respect, about the Redbird offense.
You gotta get a couple of more consistent shooters.
Bradley also didn't shoot well from 3-point range, but we have enough guys who can shoot that ultimately we can find someone who's on!

OK-- now to the BU aspect of the game.
Great crowd for the Braves. About 1000 BU folks would be my guess, more than half of which took up a few sections in the upper bowl near the BU bench. And we could hear you guys just fine from down by the bench, and it mattered!! I know the players' parents and the assistants were impressed with the ovations that came from those sections in the upper deck.

DRuff was great again. They couldn't keep up with him as he runs the offense with lightning speed and passed tremendously.
Only 5 turnovers all night, and our two point guards, Will and Daniel, combined for ONLY ONE TURNOVER.
It's hard to win on the road, but we found a way.
And without giving away any trade secrets, here's what I heard from the coaching staff.
"If Danny Adams hits his first three-pointer, then feed him the ball 'cause he's gonna hit the next three."
That's what was said just before he hit his first, then he hit his next 3 as well just as Lennox Forrester (fresh from his Alaska trip) said.
And Bradley's rebounding and low turnovers, teamed with our defense causing turnovers led to Bradley getting 58 shot attempts as compared to ISU's 44 shot attempts.

Anthony Slack had a bad ankle sprain near the end of the game, we'll have to see if he misses any games.
ISU has fine cheerleaders and dance team and we really never saw much of them. They spend way too much time standing on the end of the court and throwing mini-balls into the crowd.
Lastly, if ISU could only buy the old school football field right across the street and convert it into a decent parking lot, I can assure that you'd draw better crowds. It is my understanding that ISU already owns the school but not the field, but it sure would give Redbird Arena something they sorely need. Fans have to scrounge for parking blocks away and then hike to the arena, and a NICE, well lit, and nearby parking lot would be GREAT for groups, families, small kids, and late arrivers.
Carver Arena has tons of public, well lit, sheltered/indoor parking immediately across the street from the front door of the Civic Center. RA needs the same, and then open the south door as a general ticket entrance.

Three more thoughts-
Nice pass and awesome dunk on the full run by Zach whose arm was 24 inches about the rim!
Will is one of the best players in the league but is not flashy and people probably don't even notice him at times. But 15 pts, 6 assists, no turnovers, and 4-4 from the FT line.
Andrew Warren will really be fun to watch next year. With Will, JJ, DA, and Zach gone, Andrew will have the chance to step in and I know he'll be ready.

[tornado]

This says it all

[DannyCooksey]

good post Tornado. I agree with all of it. The Redbirds are a program in disarray right now.

Sadly in 36 years of D-1 ball, the 'Birds have had just 6 losing seasons. 3 have occured in the last 5 years.

I think you offer some good suggestions. I'd only ask which football field you are referring to? If it's the one that is directly North of Horton, that's the practice field for our Football team so that's out.

If it's the field that is due south and across the street from Redbird, that's Normal Community HS field. Not Illinois State's property.

I think you have a very good idea, but I'm not sure where a parking lot can be created. Or if there is a need for one. Illinois State basketball is on life support right now. For the attendance they draw, they have too much parking.

I think the bottom line is that Illinois State is simply becoming a football school. Our AD has a football background as an administrator and Coach and with the remodeling projects in line for Hancock Stadium I think one can assume that basketball (at least men's, will become an afterthought in Normal). Attendance will never recover. The losing has demolished the once proud program.

Let's face it, the only reason there was a good crowd last night was Doug Collins and Bradley. The bracket buster game is the next home game and that puppy will barely scratch 4500. No one cares about basketball anymore, No one. the football team was Top 10 in attendance in the nation for the Championship division. They averaged nearly 13,000 per game and that will likely grow next year as there is a ton of talent returning. people like a winner. they have lost too bad for too long now. The last 6-7 years have been absolutely pathetic. 1 post-season in that time. The locals are tired of the losing and the attendance depends on people like me. The die-hards who will drive 200 miles round trip to see nearly every home game. The ones who spend nearly $200 on season tickets when they could use that money to pay bills.

I think Illinois State basketball as we've all come to know it, is gone. Forever. I am a hoops fan 1st and foremost, but I really believe it's over. It will take too long to rejuvenate a fan base that simply doesn't care anymore. It's over. It would take 3-4 straight 20 win seasons and some serious post-season runs to return to the passionate fans we knew in the 80's and 90's. With the way this league is right now and more importantly the status that SIU and BU have reached.

[Murph]

good post Tornado. I agree with all of it. The Redbirds are a program in disarray right now.


I think the bottom line is that Illinois State is simply becoming a football school. Our AD has a football background as an administrator and Coach I think one can assume that basketball (at least men's, will become an afterthought in Normal). Attendance will never recover. The losing has demolished the once proud program.

Let's face it, the only reason there was a good crowd last night was Doug Collins and Bradley. The last 6-7 years have been absolutely pathetic. 1 post-season in that time. The locals are tired of the losing and the attendance depends on people like me. I think Illinois State basketball as we've all come to know it, is gone. and more importantly the status that SIU and BU have reached, ISU is on the outside looking in. They will NEVER win another recruiting batlle in-state ever again with the way this looks right now. No kid will pick ISU over either of those 2 schools. It's over.

Why would Roth even consider ISU as a choice is beyond me.

[Da Coach]

I disagree about ISU's basketball program being beyond repair. There is a solution, but far be it for a Bradley fan to tell ISU what they need to do.
ISU needs to admit their mistake and move on.

[DannyCooksey]

ISU needs to admit their mistake and move on.

therein lies the problem. That's not gonna happen. Therefore, it's beyond repair.

[tornado]

I'd only ask which football field you are referring to? If it's the one that is directly North of Horton, that's the practice field for our Football team so that's out.

If it's the field that is due south and across the street from Redbird, that's Normal Community HS field. Not Illinois State's property.
.

yes, the field to the south.
And I said that I kinda knew the university does not own the property, but I think They do own the grade school next door, don't they?
If they could swing a deal to maybe allow the high school to use the college field, or acauire the high school field and help set them up elsewhere, I was only trying to hint at getting some better contiguous parking (that means parking right next door! )

As for basketball gone - forever....NO WAY
You guys are right where Bradley was in the 70's, declining and marginally good overachievers. All it took was an upgrade of facility and some nationally known players and teams.

You are right where Northern Iowa was 5-10 years ago and where Missouri State was a couple decades ago.

Go hard for some fine local talent (and hope they don't change their minds and go to prep school), and I have never been a fan of bringing in more than 1 or 2 jucos at a time, as they are short term fixes at best and role players, but they send a strong, strong message to kids who DO and who want to go to ISU right from high school.

Jim Molinari told me exactly that after he had been in the business 20 years (with DePaul since the 70's, at NIU, and at BU)
As soon as you build with jucos, transfers, walkons, and freshmen playing over seniors, it will send a very noticable message to your recruiting base that they can work and get more playing time elsewhere as long as they are willing to wait.
Maybe you don't agree...but go ask Ritchie McKay what kind of brief, temporary benefit Danny Granger (and a few jucos and transfers) got for him, and how terrible his recruiting has been ever since.

[Average Joe]

>>>>ISU created the "perfect storm" of extra factors last night.
New name on the floor,
dedication by their all time greatest,
new scoreboard new graphics,
huge home crowd,
greatest rival in the house,
New pregame intro, lights out, blaring music, etc.
and a little smack talking and planning to peeve Jim Les by making so darned much pre-game about the ceremony, and spending 15 minutes before the game and 20 minutes at halftime honoring just about everyone including the Chicago Bears.

>>>>But it didn't work, and here's what I saw.
First, Jim kept the team in the lockerroom before the game until all the festivities were done and everyone was fully off the floor.
Then they didn't make a grand exit during the ISU intros, and just completely ignored it while they went about their own pregame preps. Had they gone back off the floor, it would have been a blatant admission that ISU had one-upped them.
Then Jim again kept his team in the locker room until all the halftime stuff was done and never heard nor likely knew about Doug Collins' snippet that was meant to try to show up Coach Les as a crybaby when he spoke about the dedication and how it wasn't going to be a distraction to BU and how Jim was going to prime the players to seek payback for ISU using BU as their dedication-opponent.

>>>>Also-- all the smart alecks in the crowd who were shouting insults and profanities chose the wrong targets.
Perhaps some of the players might have been intimidated, but the only thing I heard all night that was aimed at anyone who was playing was an organized chant of "Erika Nelson" when Danny Adams hit a couple threes. I think they were simply trying to get his attention and distract him, and the chant was probably devised for when DA was on the free throw line, but he never got there.
Anyway, I doubt DA heard the chant because BU was in the huddle then.
All the rest of the slams were at Jim Les or the refs (even though BU was called for more fouls when it mattered and ISU got more FT's not counting the fluury at the end when ISU fouled intentionally), but Jim clearly is oblivious to it and can easily handle it.
Or one repeated taunt was aimed at Ray Brown with a repeated chant of a drug-related insult.
But guess what? Ray Brown wasn't in the game and wasn't going to be.
How the heck was anything aimed at Ray going to bother anyone on the floor...dumb, just dumb.
The rest of the chants were just juvenile and adolescent like "F-you BU" (in the cadence of the "overrated"-chant") with the word instead of the "F"
and a couple "Buck Fradley" signs, that some lame student who's about 25 years behind the times probably stole from the ISU message board.
I agree though that 99% of ISU fans are really classy, friendly, and congratulated us and BU.
I think the BU students are much more creative and effective.

[patrick_o'brian]

The feeling that I get from here is that Doug Collins was trying to show up Jim Les last night with his comment. "Well I better get out of here before Jimmy Les gets mad at me". I don;t think that it was an insult to him. I know Doug and Coach know each other from their years in the league. Collins coaching and Les playing. I took it as a small tribute to their relationship. Maybe I'm being naive, but I looked at it as funny that Coach les' name came up during the ceremony, but their was no mention of Porter Moser. Maybe I took it wrong? Fill me in.

[chitownBUB]

Great game, glad I got off for the weekend.
I have two questions.
One, my coaches always said in pregame and in practice, "never practice shots you aren't going to take in a game and only practice the shots you are likley to get."
That said, in the early pregame shoot around, all the ISU players (except maybe Boo) went into about 15 minutes of a dunk drill. One after the other. Dilligard, Slack, Osiris, Vandello, all of them dunking one after the other. (and I was told this happens every game)
From the right side then from the left side. As long as the refs hadn't tkaen up position they just kept doing it.
But none of them every get any real benefit since they never dunk in a game, least of all Vandello. It was just a wasted 15 minutes while the BU players repeatedly practiced outside shooting.
Is this what PM wants?

Second, Bobby Hill starts and plays 25 minutes.
He did not impress me. So I thought maybe I just caught him in a bad game.
I'd describe him as an undersized Dinma Odiakosa.
He is big and a little athletic but can't score and can't keep up with BU's guards. Unless a play breaks down and he finds a "look what I found" shot opportunity, or he gets fouled, he isn't likely to score.
Bring back Holtz.
Hill's stats on the year, 1.6 points, 0.7 rebounds, only the walkons are worse.
I don't get it.

[Chucky T's]

I believe that Doug Collins and Jim Les have known each other for years. I really doubt that Doug was trying to take a shot at JL or BU. It was his attempt at humor IMO.

One thing that caught my attention was when Collins thanked the fans and said "this team really needs you." It kind of sounded like a cry for help for the ISU basketball program. Maybe I am reading too much into this but it sounded to me like he was trying to rally more support for this team. I also found it kind of wierd that he never mentioned coach PM (or did he and I didn't catch it)

[DannyCooksey]

All it took was an upgrade of facility and some nationally known players and teams.

They already have one of the best facilities in the midwest. I've been to many in the Valley and as far as sightlines, I don't think any are as good as RA. Though I haven't been to UNI's new place or Creighton's. RA is as good as it gets as far as seeing the game and making noise (when full).

I don't know what else they can do in this area.

As far as the JUCO's, I completely agree with this. You cannot build a program with JUCO's.

[wingrider81]

OK

Tornado, Danny,
Thanks for the insight. The Redbirds (my brother's school) seem to lose a lot of games they shouldn't and win a paltry few that they also really shouldn't. It starts to now make sense.
Last night the most valuable Redbird out there was the one from Metamora. Danny keep up the good work.
Tom "81"

[tornado]

There's a little parallel between Michigan and ISU as to whether they wanna put their emphasis on their FB program of whatever.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/cs-0702040041feb04,1,2380000.story?coll=cs-sports-print

[DannyCooksey]

good article. I think that's starting to take place at ISU. Certainly looks that way anyway.