Has the name "Braves" run its course?

[Braves4Life]

Agree with Real Fan and Tornado

I agree RealFan -- "Once a Brave, always a Brave".

Bradley Braves just rolls off the tongue. No alternative should be accepted! The only concession I would make and favor would be changing the nickname to "Brave". This still rolls off the tongue and fits to a "T" (no pun intended) with Tornado's fine research. (By the way Tornado, I will be very interested in seeing the finished product of your historical research).

I'd love to see Tornado take his book of research and facts to a nickname committee meeting along with about 5000 students/alumni in tow (ala Mr. Smith goes to Washington/George Bailey It's a Wonderful Life) and convince these academics to forget all this other stuff and go with Bradley Brave. Get to work T!

[BI_Brave_alum]

[quote="squirrel"][quote="BI_Brave_alum"]

personally i don't associate the name "braves" with native americans ....

.

And maroons was probably the first associated name with Bradley's teams, and that has an even worse connotation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maroon_%28people%29

yes that has a terrible connotation. just curious is this where u of chicago got its name?

[dogsrus]

Probably one of the BEST threads I've ever been involved in. Kudo's to keeping it civil and for all being openminded AND for providing me and hopefully everyone else with a plethora of information, thoughts and ideas.

I would offer someone submit this to the PJstar or to BU if they want to hear an excellent dialouge on this topic.

Couple of thoughts...."once Brave always a Brave". Why would changing the name change how you feel? Don't millions of women come into the world as _____ and leave as_____ after marriage. Do they lose their identity...family?

We will ALWAYS be BRADLEY.....the nickname really is secondary. What about students that have no athletic association or care about sports what-so-ever? They aren't Bradley BRAVE alums they are alums of Bradley University.

I just think if we ARE the Braves I want to know what that is. It, the name, needs an identity and just from this thread alone you can see that it means different things to different people...that ambiguity or better yet uncertainty doesn't do anyone or the University any good.

You're wearing a Bradley Braves sweatshirt in San Fransico and someone asks you.....What is a Brave? What do you tell them?

[Chico]

If we have to get rid of the nickname Braves, I don't think we should, how about changing to Calvary. They helped get rid of the Braves also. That would stir em up.

[dogsrus]

[quote="numbr_9"]

it is sad that a small, vocal minority can so greatly influence the population at large.

Not always 9...history reeks (in a good way) of a small vocal minority influencing the population in positve life and historical changing ways.

1) change the name -- this will take us off the NCAA watch list, allow us to have a suitable mascot/imagry, please many special-interest groups, and allow us the opportunity to schedule some great schools that won't currently consider playing us. The downside is that I would expect major backlash from alumni/donors, in the form of reduced giving, possibly reduced attendance, and general conflict

2) status quo -- keep the name "braves", continue to disassociate from all references to native americans. continue to have no mascot. this is, i.m.o., the "easy" way out. Pushes off the problems for another day, another student body, another administration. maybe someday the uproar dies down; maybe not. This is the Switzerland method; neutrality.

3) status quo -- keep the name "braves", make an effort to associate the name to something new. Problem with this is the mascot committee made a sincere effort to try this, and was roundly criticized. Maybe because they were trying to please too many people; maybe they went about it wrong. So far we have seen one failed non-indian mascot (ohhh, bobcat; does anybody miss thee?) and another failed mascot push (see active thread: Final decision--> No Mascot). Does anybody believe that trying this again in a year or two will have a different outcome? Isn't that the definiton of insanity?

4) compromise? Convert the name to something similar, maybe "brave". Ive heard this discussed before. Still brings up problems of imagry. If we are going to associate it with something new, why not just change the name altogether and avoid the problems?

5) time warp! Keep the name braves, NCAA be damned, bring back Brad E. Lee. sure, many of us would love this; myself included. But I'd also love to win the lottery, marry Jessica Simpson, and take a tourist trip on the space shuttle. I think this solution is as likely as those things happening. Maybe even less likely.

What do you think? I dont claim to know it all, did I miss another possiblity?

[/i][/

quote]


EXCELLENT list......

[MacabreMob]

If we have to get rid of the nickname Braves, I don't think we should, how about changing to Calvary. They helped get rid of the Braves also. That would stir em up.

I am in favor of Cavalry.

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/cavalry

[amckillip]

I have to say in terms oh shear revenue changing bradley's name is very scarey. I am an intern along with a grad student and senior and we run the Bradley Call Center(so be nice to the students who call you, they're just doing their job and helping the university), and already we lose donations because of the threat of losing the Braves name. Our call center accounts for right around 600K a year, with mailings from our office(but not directly under me) accounting for a large sum of money. Very often we get people writing on their pledge cards and telling us on the phone that they won't donate now or if bradley changes the name they won't donate. I may be skewed because I want to keep the name, however I truly believe losing as much as 50K a year in donations is a very reasonable estimate, which obviously a VERY substantial amount.

[squirrel]

[quote="BI_Brave_alum"][quote="squirrel"]

personally i don't associate the name "braves" with native americans ....

.

And maroons was probably the first associated name with Bradley's teams, and that has an even worse connotation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maroon_%28people%29

yes that has a terrible connotation. just curious is this where u of chicago got its name?

That I don't know. But I do know that Bradley Academy was initially designed as a prep school for the University of Chicago, as Lydia Moss Bradley and William Rainey Harper (Prez of the University of Chicago) worked together closely in creating it as such. However, during the first twenty or so years of the school, the Horology school became very highly respected and the BPI quickly adapted accordingly.

So I believe the initial team names may have been derived from that relationship and its association with the U of Chicago.

But I won't deny that there were reasons for these team names in the beginning. There was a very strong volkisch movement on campus and in its secret societies and Greek organizations. Occasionally you will see swastikas in Bradley annuals and symbols, however, they pretty much disappeared around the time WWI started.

Now granted, swastikas had a generally peaceful meaning before WWII. However, it was still a sign of northern european/WASP pride and that movement eventually did grow into the two world wars.

So knowing this about Bradley's beginnings leads me to be a bit skeptical about the intents of some of the early team names.

That said, I do take great pride in the fact that Bradley has a long history of being color blind. Considering its beginnings, it is another fine example of how the institution has transformed and redefined itself as a leader.

[tornado]

To be fair, Tornado is only offering a handful of the dozens of names that were used unofficially from 1905-1937:

Maroons
Techies/Techsters/Techmen
Reds/Redmen
Indians/Injuns
Braves
Robbymen/Robbiemen (sic)
B-Men

to name just a few more. . .

squirrel, I was referring to the nicknames used before any references to Native Americans.

I personally have no data or reference to cite the nicknames Indians, Redmen, Braves, Chiefs, Injuns, or otherwise, before the early 1930's.
Do you?

Prior to the 1930's the Bradley athletic teams DID NOT have any official nickname, and were called various names like Techies, Tech-men, B-Men, etc. by the journalists, just for the sake of interest and uniqueness.
Only when some other schools actually began to utilize an official nickname, and imagery, did BU jump on board with same.

The earliest Indian reference that I have is a picture of an Indian Chief in full headdress being used in a 1934 publication calling the basketball team the "Bradley Indians", but I have read that some people think the use of the name Indians may have started a bit earlier.
As I get time, I plan to do more digging, and presently am still working on the years 1903-1920.

[Guinness]

I have to say in terms oh shear revenue changing bradley's name is very scarey. I am an intern along with a grad student and senior and we run the Bradley Call Center(so be nice to the students who call you, they're just doing their job and helping the university), and already we lose donations because of the threat of losing the Braves name. Our call center accounts for right around 600K a year, with mailings from our office(but not directly under me) accounting for a large sum of money. Very often we get people writing on their pledge cards and telling us on the phone that they won't donate now or if bradley changes the name they won't donate. I may be skewed because I want to keep the name, however I truly believe losing as much as 50K a year in donations is a very reasonable estimate, which obviously a VERY substantial amount.

Right you are. Look, we have a huge amount of alumni out there that are extremely opposed to a nickname change. Our nickname is our tradition. Its not anything disrespectful.

http://www.bradley.edu/spotlight/sports/index.shtml

INDIANAPOLIS ???‚¬??? The NCAA Executive Committee today removed Bradley University from the list of schools subject to restrictions on the use of Native American mascots, names and imagery at NCAA championships, but placed the institution on a five-year watch list, according to a release from the NCAA national office this morning.

The Executive Committee agreed that Bradley had previously removed all Native American imagery associated with its athletics programs and only kept the generic nickname ???‚¬?“Braves.???‚¬?? Based on information contained in Bradley???‚¬?„?s appeal, the Executive Committee found Bradley demonstrated its ability to provide an environment that is not hostile or abusive and one that is consistent wit the NCAA constitution and commitment to diversity, respect and sportsmanship. Bradley has been placed on a watch list for five years, during which time the NCAA will work with the school to assure that circumstances do not change. Bradley is allowed to fully participate in and host NCAA championships without restrictions.

As far as I'm concerned, anyone still on a crusade to get the name changed is just an attention whore trying to do something they feel is "morally righteous" to make themselves feel good. They are the ones that associate our nickname with something negative.

Put it this way. When we were all young, we had no idea what stereotypes were (racial or otherwise) because we didnt make the connection in our head. We dont make that connection with our nickname. They have the moral problem, not us.

I think its time we turned things around on them, and asked them why the refuse to shed their stereotypes.


(Note: I recognize that the discussion here is about whether or not the resources required to keep defending our name are worth it, not another rehashed "change our name" campaign)

[GObravesGO1981]

I was a student. I am an alum. I never played sports @ BU.

You want to know why homecoming is lame at BU? You want to know why students get complacent? Want to know why school spirit (on the whole) has been, and IMO still is, in the tanker?

The administration, self-righteous do-gooders, and whiney long-winded PC liberals have sapped our school of tradition. Taking away what little tradition the school has left will further confuse students and alienate an alumni base that connects to their alma mater through the Braves moniker.

I was a student. I am an alum. I never played sports @ BU. I will always be a Bradley Brave.

[tornado]

I was a student. I am an alum. I never played sports @ BU.

You want to know why homecoming is lame at BU? You want to know why students get complacent? Want to know why school spirit (on the whole) has been, and IMO still is, in the tanker?

The administration, self-righteous do-gooders, and whiney long-winded PC liberals have sapped our school of tradition. Taking away what little tradition the school has left will further confuse students and alienate an alumni base that connects to their alma mater through the Braves moniker.

I was a student. I am an alum. I never played sports @ BU. I will always be a Bradley Brave.

But GoBravesGo1981, how do you let the "liberals" have so much influence on what you think and what you do?

I agree that there are people and "forces" that try to take away what you enjoy and what you want, but it is all part of life. If you let it get you down and mope, then you'll be moping forever.
At college, in the business world, in your love life...anywhere you look there always are people who seemingly have no real life for themselves but wish to try to ruin what you enjoy.

So, break out of it, and cheer even louder for your Bradley Braves.
The great contingent of Bradley fans that made the trip to Redbird Arena was a statement that Bradley basketball IS back and the fans are really rolling to get behind them.

[Braves4Life]

Well Said

I was a student. I am an alum. I never played sports @ BU.

You want to know why homecoming is lame at BU? You want to know why students get complacent? Want to know why school spirit (on the whole) has been, and IMO still is, in the tanker?

The administration, self-righteous do-gooders, and whiney long-winded PC liberals have sapped our school of tradition. Taking away what little tradition the school has left will further confuse students and alienate an alumni base that connects to their alma mater through the Braves moniker.

I was a student. I am an alum. I never played sports @ BU. I will always be a Bradley Brave.

But GoBravesGo1981, how do you let the "liberals" have so much influence on what you think and what you do?

I agree that there are people and "forces" that try to take away what you enjoy and what you want, but it is all part of life. If you let it get you down and mope, then you'll be moping forever.
At college, in the business world, in your love life...anywhere you look there always are people who seemingly have no real life for themselves but wish to try to ruin what you enjoy.

So, break out of it, and cheer even louder for your Bradley Braves.
The great contingent of Bradley fans that made the trip to Redbird Arena was a statement that Bradley basketball IS back and the fans are really rolling to get behind them.

Well said by both Tornado and GoBraves. I agree with both statements. Always remember the obvious: "Winners win and losers lose. Only you can choose which one you are going to be."