BU Basketball is GREAT business for WMBD, too

[Old Coach]

I just ran across this old thread that kinda proves, at least just a few short years ago, that Bradley basketball was a hot commodity...
so... either it still is and we have trouble selling it to TV, or it ISN'T which is even a greater concern...

Does anyone have access to the full current Arbitron ratings or TV ratings or anything that disputes this?

I found an online mention that as of quite recently, WMBD ratings were still extremely strong - in fact stronger than any time since 2011

http://ratings.radio-online.com/cgi-bin/rol.exe/arb137

so the argument that people have so many other options is really no different of a situation than back in 2007 - they had tons of options then including hundreds of stations, cable options, and other things and still 18-20 games were on TV....
and I know people who used to tune in JUST to hear the color analyst - whether it was DV or CK

Those are 1/4 hour shares from 6a to midnight for all audiences 12+. Apples and oranges.

[tornado]

A few short years?.....almost 7 years ago T......

so if things have changed in that interval - at what point did they change and who or what are the reasons?

[Old Coach]

A few short years?.....almost 7 years ago T......

That's right lefty. A long time ago WEEK made money selling Bradley basketball, but then, they no longer did, and got out of the business.

I'm sure that JMP is ecstatic to have Nelligan buying the time from them to broadcast Bradley basketball games. Just as I'm pretty certain that whatever Bradley games get on local TV during the conference season will also have been time that Nelligan had to buy.

[tornado]

but as I said..
we are either doing a poor job marketing something that is still a marketable commodity - or...
we are no longer a marketable commodity - or a little of both --
neither scenario is good - and both are as disappointing as the vast empty seats and low attendance -- what's happening and does anyone except a few fans care?

[lefty]

so if things have changed in that interval - at what point did they change and who or what are the reasons?

some things change and some evolve....I guess I don't look at almost 7 years as a short time in our world any longer....that's all.

[Old Coach]

but as I said..
we are either doing a poor job marketing something that is still a marketable commodity - or...
we are no longer a marketable commodity - or a little of both --
neither scenario is good - and both are as disappointing as the vast empty seats and low attendance -- what's happening and does anyone except a few fans care?

The biggest difference for a market of this size and team of Bradley's standing is that people consume media far differently than they did 3, 7, 15, and 20 years ago. Traditional TV and radio audiences for live game broadcasts just aren't there like they were in the 1980s.

[Da Coach]

I see. It's 100% due to things completely out of Bradley's control?
Does that apply to the thousands fewer season ticket sales and large attendance declines?
For the record, this does not mesh with what many fans have told me. There are other significant factors responsible for the decline in interest, attendance, and donations. But let's keep ignoring all those and blame it on the changing times.
Even the people there know that is not true, or they wouldn't have hired Nelligan to try to bail them out of the mess they are now in.


Again, this is my view from Section 14 at the last game. Entire rows of empty seats where season ticket holders always filled the stands before, and where people used to wait years to get a chance to move down to and others handed their tickets down to new generations. It is appalling how far things have fallen, and yet the PJ Star writer, just 6 months ago, said, "My prediction? The good times will soon be rolling again on the Hilltop."

http://blogs.pjstar.com/pressrow/2013/05/15/will-history-repeat-itself-with-stellar-bu-recruiting-class/

[Chico]

Good to see some of the loyal fans, like Pat Sullivan up in section 17, still supporting the team. Some can cut up the "old timers" all they want, but where would we be even now without them.

[Old Coach]

I see. It's 100% due to things completely out of Bradley's control?
Does that apply to the thousands fewer season ticket sales and large attendance declines?
For the record, this does not mesh with what many fans have told me. There are other significant factors responsible for the decline in interest, attendance, and donations. But let's keep ignoring all those and blame it on the changing times.
Even the people there know that is not true, or they wouldn't have hired Nelligan to try to bail them out of the mess they are now in.

What kind of mess do you think Alabama and Notre Dame felt they were in when they hired Learfield and IMG? It isn't about being in a mess, it's about maximizing sponsorship revenue opportunities and marketing dollars.

As far as ticket sales go, I would say the viable TV audience was gone long before the significant decline in attendance. I've been out of the TV business for 6 years, and it was longer ago than that Bradley telecasts weren't making stations money. 1 ratings during prime time don't generate TV revenues that run in the black.

[lefty]

I see. It's 100% due to things completely out of Bradley's control?
Does that apply to the thousands fewer season ticket sales and large attendance declines?
For the record, this does not mesh with what many fans have told me. There are other significant factors responsible for the decline in interest, attendance, and donations. But let's keep ignoring all those and blame it on the changing times.
Even the people there know that is not true, or they wouldn't have hired Nelligan to try to bail them out of the mess they are now in.


Again, this is my view from Section 14 at the last game. Entire rows of empty seats where season ticket holders always filled the stands before, and where people used to wait years to get a chance to move down to and others handed their tickets down to new generations. It is appalling how far things have fallen, and yet the PJ Star writer, just 6 months ago, said, "My prediction? The good times will soon be rolling again on the Hilltop."

http://blogs.pjstar.com/pressrow/2013/05/15/will-history-repeat-itself-with-stellar-bu-recruiting-class/

I don't think anyone hasn't said there aren't issues....but there are also other elements involved too.....I really doubt we had to dig up a 7 year old thread to discuss them all again

[tornado]

... don't look at almost 7 years as a short time in our world any longer....that's all.

7 years is when that thread was - but as recent as 2010 & 2011 we had big crowds in St. Louis, 10,000K crowds at BU and averaged well over 9,000
..but in his column about BU's declining attendance our local writer claimed the attendance problems dated to 2007 - I disagree, but he chose that point.

..Traditional TV and radio audiences for live game broadcasts just aren't there like they were in the 1980s.

I agree, but that report was 2007 and it suggested that the market was strong for broadcasting BU basketball - I don't have the Arbitron numbers for TV (if they exist) but remember - up 'til 2010 we still had 18-20 games a year on local TV.
Week gave up BU basketball because it would have replaced their otherwise extremely popular evening shows...
But like they do in other markets - just deal with stations that would not loose large numbers of regular viewers - such as WTVP & cable.

Surely Bradley MEN'S basketball is at least as marketable as ISU's WOMEN'S basketball

[Old Coach]

7 years is when that thread was - but as recent as 2010 & 2011 we had big crowds in St. Louis, 10,000K crowds at BU and averaged well over 9,000
..but in his column about BU's declining attendance our local writer claimed the attendance problems dated to 2007 - I disagree, but he chose that point.


I agree, but that report was 2007 and it suggested that the market was strong for broadcasting BU basketball - I don't have the Arbitron numbers for TV (if they exist) but remember - up 'til 2010 we still had 18-20 games a year on local TV.
Week gave up BU basketball because it would have replaced their otherwise extremely popular evening shows...
But like they do in other markets - just deal with stations that would not loose large numbers of regular viewers - such as WTVP & cable.

Surely Bradley MEN'S basketball is at least as marketable as ISU's WOMEN'S basketball

Arbitron ratings are for radio. Nielsen ratings are used for television, and I can assure that Bradley's TV numbers were regularly a 1 rating. To make money on Bradley games in the mid 2000s an average spot rate in the mid $200 range was necessary. At a 1 rating that made the Cost Per Point for a spot in a Bradley game $250, where as a customary CPP for prime programming would be in the $75 range. Imagine trying to convince people that they should pay $250 for something that was only worth $75.

[Da Coach]

...

As far as ticket sales go, I would say the viable TV audience was gone long before the significant decline in attendance. I've been out of the TV business for 6 years, and it was longer ago than that Bradley telecasts weren't making stations money. 1 ratings during prime time don't generate TV revenues that run in the black.

I beg to differ. I don't know where your info comes from, maybe you're referring to the much older WEEK broadcasts, but as I have said, I know people involved with those broadcasts on Comcast and WTVP, and who sold advertising, and they have told me they made money on the broadcasts, or they would not have done so many of them. BradleyFans.com was one of the advertisers and sponsors.

In 2010, Bradley had 20 games televised, and 11 of them were locally originated (Comcast, and WTVP), and they made money.

In 2011 we again had 20 games televised, and 10 of those were on WTVP.

In 2012 we again had 20 televised games, and had 13 games on WTVP.

2013 Last season was the first year we had way fewer. For whatever reasons, we missed the deadlines that other stations needed to set, so apparently we decided to go with WAOE, and simply adopt the broadcast of other teams. Somehow those other MVC teams managed to get their games on TV. How do they possible manage and we can't?

This season- 0 local broadcasts so far.

[Toyota12]

Attendance

Just win Baby!! That will take care of everything. Today our society wants instant results whether it be online social media or BU basketball wins! BU basketball games were a social event down town at one time when they were winning. People liked to be seen at the games to show their support for a winner not associated with a subpar team. Sad to say but not everyone supports the team like us die hard fans.

[Old Coach]

I beg to differ. I don't know where your info comes from, maybe you're referring to the much older WEEK broadcasts, but as I have said, I know people involved with those broadcasts on Comcast and WTVP, and who sold advertising, and they have told me they made money on the broadcasts, or they would not have done so many of them. BradleyFans.com was one of the advertisers and sponsors.

In 2010, Bradley had 20 games televised, and 11 of them were locally originated (Comcast, and WTVP), and they made money.

In 2011 we again had 20 games televised, and 10 of those were on WTVP.

In 2012 we again had 20 televised games, and had 13 games on WTVP.

2013 Last season was the first year we had way fewer. For whatever reasons, we missed the deadlines that other stations needed to set, so apparently we decided to go with WAOE, and simply adopt the broadcast of other teams. Somehow those other MVC teams managed to get their games on TV. How do they possible manage and we can't?

This season- 0 local broadcasts so far.

I'm talking about 2005-2006 and Bradley basketball broadcasts were not making money on WEEK.

With regards to your assertion that Bradley basketball was making money for Comcast and WTVP, I wonder why they weren't clamoring for the rights to broadcast games in 2013 and 2014 if they were netting income from said broadcasts in previous seasons.

As for this season, I'd expect to see games once again on WAOE.