UE-SIU Merfeld comments

[collegehoopjunkie]

Immediately after the game against SIU, Steve Merfeld issued these quotes
"Evansville's Merfeld is concerned with rough play. Coaches are told it's a finesse game, he said. Referees, however, don't clean up pushing and grabbing by defenders. Merfeld called it a crisis. "It's not the way the game is supposed to be played," he said."

Just a coincidence after he just got done playing SIU?

[squeaky]

I think he was reacting to last night's gme and the way it was called. SIU is known for the clutch and grab school of defense, and last night it hurt them. SIU was called for 31 fouls (UE was whistled for 25), and Evansville was 30-39 from the free throw line. SIU was 22-36. Boyle, Foster, and Shaw fouled out (Foster in just 11 minutes played), Falker and Mullins played with 4 fouls. It hurt SIU, but usually they use this style to their advantage and it helps them win.

Officials have a strong tendency to try to keep the number of fouls close, so SIU fouls constantly, and benefits from that fact as the refs let most of it go, or they call an equal number of fouls on the other team even though they don't play that style. In the end it usually benefits SIU, but it is an ugly style of play that negates players' best athletic abilities and gives advantage to teams with less talent and athleticism (SIU). It works in the Valley where they don't play against teams with a great deal of size and depth. But it doesn't seem to work for them in the NCAA tournament.
I predict after Tatum and Young are gone, that this style will stop working for SIU and they will drop off unless they can learn to shoot and play a more skilled style of play.

[Average Joe]

I hope we get those refs when we play SIU(Officials: Randy McCall, Verne Harris, Dave Draucker)

[wily coyote]

I think he was reacting to last night's gme and the way it was called. SIU is known for the clutch and grab school of defense, and last night it hurt them. SIU was called for 31 fouls (UE was whistled for 25), and Evansville was 30-39 from the free throw line. SIU was 22-36. Boyle, Foster, and Shaw fouled out (Foster in just 11 minutes played), Falker and Mullins played with 4 fouls. It hurt SIU, but usually they use this style to their advantage and it helps them win.

Officials have a strong tendency to try to keep the number of fouls close, so SIU fouls constantly, and benefits from that fact as the refs let most of it go, or they call an equal number of fouls on the other team even though they don't play that style. In the end it usually benefits SIU, but it is an ugly style of play that negates players' best athletic abilities and gives advantage to teams with less talent and athleticism (SIU). It works in the Valley where they don't play against teams with a great deal of size and depth. But it doesn't seem to work for them in the NCAA tournament.
I predict after Tatum and Young are gone, that this style will stop working for SIU and they will drop off unless they can learn to shoot and play a more skilled style of play.

Trust me the officials DO NOT have a strong tendency to keep the number of fouls equal. That comment is from an uninformed fan. There is NOTHING further from the truth than that statement. You probably need to do a little reaserch before making a comment like that.Officials have noidea the foul count and quite frankly could care less.Would they like games with very few fouls , you bet but that doesn't happen so you make the best of every game given to you.

[tornado]

Officials have noidea the foul count and quite frankly could care less...

I am sorry, but I don't believe this at all.
In a perfect world, then sure....the refs can be 100% objective and unaffected by the atmosphere.
But, as soon as the foul counts grow to a 6 to 1 or 8 to 2 ratio, the crowd will most assuredly let the refs know.,
I sit close enough to the floor at Carver arena that I have actually overheard verbal conversations between fans and refs, and between coaches and refs about the numerical foul discrepancy, and the pressure on the refs grows as the crowd reacts.
I have defenitely observed what I believe is evidence that the reaction will cause the refs to alter the pattern. Of course they rarely will ever admit the home crowd affects the calls they make, but many refs I have spoken to will concede it cannot help but affect them, and it helps account for the home court advantage.

[it's boogie time]

It's been a few years, but the group I used to sit with would bet beers depending on the team fouls. Basically, around the first or second media timeout, the fouls would be around 4 to 1. Someone would announce it was time to make their wager and bet on which team would foul next. Obviously, the easy money was on the 1 foul team, but sometime you would take the longshot 4 foul team. If you caught the ref looking up at the scoreboard, you always took the 1 foul team (if everybody saw one, then the betting was delayed 'til the next timeout). The best part was when we would get a new guy and he didn't believe that there was a bias. The second beer was usually on the house then.

[MacabreMob]

Officials have noidea the foul count and quite frankly could care less...

I am sorry, but I don't believe this at all.
In a perfect world, then sure....the refs can be 100% objective and unaffected by the atmosphere.
But, as soon as the foul counts grow to a 6 to 1 or 8 to 2 ratio, the crowd will most assuredly let the refs know.,
I sit close enough to the floor at Carver arena that I have actually overheard verbal conversations between fans and refs, and between coaches and refs about the numerical foul discrepancy, and the pressure on the refs grows as the crowd reacts.
I have defenitely observed what I believe is evidence that the reaction will cause the refs to alter the pattern. Of course they rarely will ever admit the home crowd affects the calls they make, but many refs I have spoken to will concede it cannot help but affect them, and it helps account for the home court advantage.

I aint sayin nothin bout nothin.

[squeaky]

Trust me the officials DO NOT have a strong tendency to keep the number of fouls equal. That comment is from an uninformed fan. There is NOTHING further from the truth than that statement. You probably need to do a little reaserch before making a comment like that.Officials have noidea the foul count and quite frankly could care less.Would they like games with very few fouls , you bet but that doesn't happen so you make the best of every game given to you.

Sorry, wily, you will never convince me or a lot of fans that this is true. I have watched NCAA games for nearly 40 years and how else do you explain why no matter how different the styles and physical nature of matchups, in the end, the number of fouls called is always very close between to 2 teams?
There is nothing that officials get criticized more for than calling inordinately more fouls on one team, even if it is justified. So whether it's conscious or unconscious, they will call ticky-tack fouls just to even the number of fouls called. I have witnessed this more this season than any year. Bradley just does not play a physical style, and fouls very little in comparison to teams like SIU and others. Yet in the game SIU played at Bradley they were called for just 2 fewer fouls than Bradley for the game BU won 48-46. And in the Indiana State game, Bradley actually was called for 2 more fouls than InSU, even though InSU clutched and grabbed our guards all game.

Go back and look at the foul numbers for all of Bradley's games. Other than the Missouri State game when Bradley fouled a bunch at the end to try to catch up, the foul numbers of every game are amazingly close. In fact, 7 games had exactly the same number of fouls, and 15 of the 19 games have been within 0-2 difference--

BU 18
InSU 16

SIU 12
BU 10

BU 19
Drake 17

BU 20
WSU 20

MSU 13
BU 22

UE 22
BU 18

BU 21
UNI 21

So. Miss. 22
BU 22

Loyola 15
BU 15

Iowa State 19
BU 19

Wright State 19
BU 17

Michigan State 18
BU 18

BU 22
Tenn Tech 20

BU 23
ILL 17

Rutgers 19
BU 21


Fla A&M 13
BU 13

ILL-Chi 15
BU 19

SIUE 22
BU 21

DePaul 18
BU 20

Now, tell me these similarities in #s of fouls is just a coincidence!
You are living in a fairy tale if you think so.

[houstontxbrave]

I think he was reacting to last night's gme and the way it was called. SIU is known for the clutch and grab school of defense, and last night it hurt them. SIU was called for 31 fouls (UE was whistled for 25), and Evansville was 30-39 from the free throw line. SIU was 22-36. Boyle, Foster, and Shaw fouled out (Foster in just 11 minutes played), Falker and Mullins played with 4 fouls. It hurt SIU, but usually they use this style to their advantage and it helps them win.

Officials have a strong tendency to try to keep the number of fouls close, so SIU fouls constantly, and benefits from that fact as the refs let most of it go, or they call an equal number of fouls on the other team even though they don't play that style. In the end it usually benefits SIU, but it is an ugly style of play that negates players' best athletic abilities and gives advantage to teams with less talent and athleticism (SIU). It works in the Valley where they don't play against teams with a great deal of size and depth. But it doesn't seem to work for them in the NCAA tournament.
I predict after Tatum and Young are gone, that this style will stop working for SIU and they will drop off unless they can learn to shoot and play a more skilled style of play.

Trust me the officials DO NOT have a strong tendency to keep the number of fouls equal. That comment is from an uninformed fan. There is NOTHING further from the truth than that statement. You probably need to do a little reaserch before making a comment like that.Officials have noidea the foul count and quite frankly could care less.Would they like games with very few fouls , you bet but that doesn't happen so you make the best of every game given to you.

In a perfect world the officials would be oblivious to discrepencies, but basketball officiating isnt perfect. We have all seen to many times a call is made and it is wrong on one end then immediately on the other end a call is made essentially equallying the bad calls and the game moves on. Moving screens, three seconds carries, on backs or holds are always good choices for the make up calls.

[lefty]

Trust me the officials DO NOT have a strong tendency to keep the number of fouls equal. That comment is from an uninformed fan. There is NOTHING further from the truth than that statement. You probably need to do a little reaserch before making a comment like that.Officials have noidea the foul count and quite frankly could care less.Would they like games with very few fouls , you bet but that doesn't happen so you make the best of every game given to you.

Sorry, wily, you will never convince me or a lot of fans that this is true. I have watched NCAA games for nearly 40 years and how else do you explain why no matter how different the styles and physical nature of matchups, in the end, the number of fouls called is always very close between to 2 teams?
There is nothing that officials get criticized more for than calling inordinately more fouls on one team, even if it is justified. So whether it's conscious or unconscious, they will call ticky-tack fouls just to even the number of fouls called. I have witnessed this more this season than any year. Bradley just does not play a physical style, and fouls very little in comparison to teams like SIU and others. Yet in the game SIU played at Bradley they were called for just 2 fewer fouls than Bradley for the game BU won 48-46. And in the Indiana State game, Bradley actually was called for 2 more fouls than InSU, even though InSU clutched and grabbed our guards all game.

Go back and look at the foul numbers for all of Bradley's games. Other than the Missouri State game when Bradley fouled a bunch at the end to try to catch up, the foul numbers of every game are amazingly close. In fact, 7 games had exactly the same number of fouls, and 15 of the 19 games have been within 0-2 difference--

BU 18
InSU 16

SIU 12
BU 10

BU 19
Drake 17

BU 20
WSU 20

MSU 13
BU 22

UE 22
BU 18

BU 21
UNI 21

So. Miss. 22
BU 22

Loyola 15
BU 15

Iowa State 19
BU 19

Wright State 19
BU 17

Michigan State 18
BU 18

BU 22
Tenn Tech 20

BU 23
ILL 17

Rutgers 19
BU 21


Fla A&M 13
BU 13

ILL-Chi 15
BU 19

SIUE 22
BU 21

DePaul 18
BU 20

Now, tell me these similarities in #s of fouls is just a coincidence!
You are living in a fairy tale if you think so.

all well and good here, but this doesn't mean much to me.
What's the average foul differential across the nation..if there is such a stat.
Actually it seems to me all calls seem to even out as the game goes on including turnovers. I'm talking questionable calls really...not that turnovers are close to equal between teams.

[real fan]

I think the reason the fouls are close to even is because refs will either call a game tight or let them play so you either have a lot of fouls called on both teams or hardly any called; I do not think a game that the officials call a lot of fouls favors SIU as they have no bench; that is probably why they lost at Evansville and the 3 officials that worked that game are not very good in my opinion.

[wily coyote]

Trust me the officials DO NOT have a strong tendency to keep the number of fouls equal. That comment is from an uninformed fan. There is NOTHING further from the truth than that statement. You probably need to do a little reaserch before making a comment like that.Officials have noidea the foul count and quite frankly could care less.Would they like games with very few fouls , you bet but that doesn't happen so you make the best of every game given to you.

Sorry, wily, you will never convince me or a lot of fans that this is true. I have watched NCAA games for nearly 40 years and how else do you explain why no matter how different the styles and physical nature of matchups, in the end, the number of fouls called is always very close between to 2 teams?
There is nothing that officials get criticized more for than calling inordinately more fouls on one team, even if it is justified. So whether it's conscious or unconscious, they will call ticky-tack fouls just to even the number of fouls called. I have witnessed this more this season than any year. Bradley just does not play a physical style, and fouls very little in comparison to teams like SIU and others. Yet in the game SIU played at Bradley they were called for just 2 fewer fouls than Bradley for the game BU won 48-46. And in the Indiana State game, Bradley actually was called for 2 more fouls than InSU, even though InSU clutched and grabbed our guards all game.

Go back and look at the foul numbers for all of Bradley's games. Other than the Missouri State game when Bradley fouled a bunch at the end to try to catch up, the foul numbers of every game are amazingly close. In fact, 7 games had exactly the same number of fouls, and 15 of the 19 games have been within 0-2 difference--

BU 18
InSU 16

SIU 12
BU 10

BU 19
Drake 17

BU 20
WSU 20

MSU 13
BU 22

UE 22
BU 18

BU 21
UNI 21

So. Miss. 22
BU 22

Loyola 15
BU 15

Iowa State 19
BU 19

Wright State 19
BU 17

Michigan State 18
BU 18

BU 22
Tenn Tech 20

BU 23
ILL 17

Rutgers 19
BU 21


Fla A&M 13
BU 13

ILL-Chi 15
BU 19

SIUE 22
BU 21

DePaul 18
BU 20

Now, tell me these similarities in #s of fouls is just a coincidence!
You are living in a fairy tale if you think so.

Squeaky, you did a nice job in putting numbers together, but thats all they are numbers. OFFICIALS DO NOT care what the numbers are and have no idea and most of all could CARE LESS.Fans thinking a call will be made up after a bad call is just as crazy. It is all in a person perception and how can you argue perception. I agree some officials don't belong on our level,but they are necessary. We can all name the bad ones and there are enough to go around. Funny on the valley talk board, they are hammering Ed Hightower. Let me explain something about officiating,i'll bet ED never worked a game and knew how many fouls were called and he would cared less.If you had ever officiated at a decent level of ball this dicussion would not be an issued period.

[squeaky]

Squeaky, you did a nice job in putting numbers together, but thats all they are numbers. OFFICIALS DO NOT care what the numbers are and have no idea and most of all could CARE LESS.Fans thinking a call will be made up after a bad call is just as crazy. It is all in a person perception and how can you argue perception. I agree some officials don't belong on our level,but they are necessary. We can all name the bad ones and there are enough to go around. Funny on the valley talk board, they are hammering Ed Hightower. Let me explain something about officiating,i'll bet ED never worked a game and knew how many fouls were called and he would cared less.If you had ever officiated at a decent level of ball this dicussion would not be an issued period.

Wily, the refs aren't stupid, blind or deaf. They know precisely how many fouls they have called on each team, and if one team has significantly more than the other, they hear it from that coach, or the crowd if it's the home team. They do not want to be blamed for the win or loss.
And I have known officials who admitted to me that they would slant a call sometimes to "even up" a bad call by one of their collegues.
I don't have the time to check the foul numbers for all games, but I am sure they will show similar to the ones in the 19 Bradley contests above. It is far too close to be a coincidence, especially considering how vastly different evrey team plays. Yet the number of fouls amazingly comes up close in nearly every game. Believe what you want, IMO there is no doubt the refs try to keep it even.

[wily coyote]

Squeaky, you did a nice job in putting numbers together, but thats all they are numbers. OFFICIALS DO NOT care what the numbers are and have no idea and most of all could CARE LESS.Fans thinking a call will be made up after a bad call is just as crazy. It is all in a person perception and how can you argue perception. I agree some officials don't belong on our level,but they are necessary. We can all name the bad ones and there are enough to go around. Funny on the valley talk board, they are hammering Ed Hightower. Let me explain something about officiating,i'll bet ED never worked a game and knew how many fouls were called and he would cared less.If you had ever officiated at a decent level of ball this dicussion would not be an issued period.

Wily, the refs aren't stupid, blind or deaf. They know precisely how many fouls they have called on each team, and if one team has significantly more than the other, they hear it from that coach, or the crowd if it's the home team. They do not want to be blamed for the win or loss.
And I have known officials who admitted to me that they would slant a call sometimes to "even up" a bad call by one of their collegues.
I don't have the time to check the foul numbers for all games, but I am sure they will show similar to the ones in the 19 Bradley contests above. It is far too close to be a coincidence, especially considering how vastly different evrey team plays. Yet the number of fouls amazingly comes up close in nearly every game. Believe what you want, IMO there is no doubt the refs try to keep it even.

Squeaky, we could beat this dead horse forever and not agree. If what you are saying abouting slanting a call to make up a kicked call, I guarentee your friends don't work at a very high level. Must be jr.high or intermurals. I would use the phrase trust me when I say they don't know the number of fouls on each team ,but you aren't going to believe it anyway so we'll just leave it at that.The last thing I'm going to say about it is.If you believe they know or care ,that just shows why people can't believe officials really don't care who wins or loses and why that thinking won't ever be changed.