The official MVC Awards

[tornado]

1st Team-
Paris Lee, Landry Shamet, Markis McDuffie, Alize Johnson, Milton Doyle

http://www.mvc-sports.com/mbasketball/news/2016-17/9400/2017-mvc-mens-basketball-all-conference-team/#.WLWeQvkrKyI

I am surprised both Hawkins & McIntosh were 2nd team!



2017 All-Missouri Valley Conference Men’s Basketball Team

First Team Yr. Pos. Ht. Hometown
Milton Doyle, Loyola Sr. G 6-4 Chicago (Ill.) Marshall High/Kansas
Alize Johnson, Missouri St. Jr. F 6-9 Williamsport (Pa.) St. John Neumann High
Paris Lee, Illinois State Sr. G 6-0 Maywood (Ill.) Proviso East High
Markis McDuffie, Wichita St. So. F 6-8 Paterson (N.J.) St. Anthony High
Landry Shamet, Wichita St. Fr. G 6-4 Kansas City (Mo.) Park Hill High

Second Team
Jaylon Brown, Evansville Sr. G 6-0 Fishers (Ind.) High
Deontae Hawkins, Illinois St. Sr. F 6-8 Dayton (Ohio) Quakerdale Promise Academy
MiKyle McIntosh, Illinois St. Jr. F 6-7 Pickering (Ontario, Canada) 22ft Academy
Jeremy Morgan, UNI Sr. G 6-5 Coralville (Iowa) Iowa City West High
Sean O'Brien, S. Illinois Sr. F 6-7 Mundelein (Ill.) High

Third Team
Conner Frankamp, Wichita St. Jr. G 6-1 Wichita (Kan.) Univ. of Kansas
Donte Ingram, Loyola Jr. G/F 6-6 Chicago (Ill.) Simeon High
Shaquille Morris, Wichita St. Jr. C 6-8 Edmond (Okla.) Memorial High
Brenton Scott, Indiana St. Jr. G 6-1 Fort Wayne (Ind.) Northrup High
Reed Timmer, Drake Jr. G 6-1 New Berlin (Wis.) Eisenhower High

All-Newcomer Team
Phil Fayne, Illinois State So. F 6-9 Elk Grove (Calif.) Franklin High
Aundre Jackson, Loyola Jr. F 6-5 Kennedale (Texas) High
Alize Johnson, Missouri St. Jr. F 6-9 Williamsport (Pa.) St. John Neumann High
Landry Shamet, Wichita St. Fr. G 6-4 Kansas City (Mo.) Park Hill High
Darral Willis Jr., Wichita St. Jr. F 6-9 Madison (Wis.) Pearl River (Miss.) CC

All-Freshman Team
Koch Bar, Bradley C 6-11 Abyei (South Sudan) Arlington Co. Day School
Jordan Barnes, Indiana State G 5-11 St. Louis (Mo.) Christian Brothers High
Darrell Brown Jr., Bradley G 5-10 Memphis (Tenn.) Germantown High
Spencer Haldeman, UNI G 6-1 Peosta (Iowa) Western Dubuque
Landry Shamet, Wichita State G 6-4 Kansas City (Mo.) Park Hill High
Dru Smith, Evansville G 6-3 Evansville (Ind.) Reitz High

All-Defensive Team
Thik Bol, Southern Illinois Jr. F 6-8 Omaha (Neb.) Iowa Western CC
Zach Brown, Wichita State Jr. F 6-6 Houston (Texas) Sunrise Christian Academy
Obediah Church, Missouri St. So. F 6-7 Springfield (Ill.) High
Paris Lee, Illinois State Sr. G 6-0 Maywood (Ill.) Proviso East High
Jeremy Morgan, UNI Sr. G 6-5 Coralville (Iowa) Iowa City West High
Tony Wills, Illinois State Sr. G 6-4 Indianapolis (Ind.) Ben Davis High

[tornado]

I know I am biased - but if Dru Smith makes All Freshman - on a team that finished below Bradley....then I think Jayden Hodgson & Nate Kennell deserved similar.....
Likewise - Haldeman became less & less effective as the season wore on..and his playing time dropped considerably
In their win over Bradley he only played 5 min & was scoreless
Pplease don't think I am knocking any of those other guys - I just think our guys get caught in a scenario where the voters simply don't want to put too many players from one team....
In some sense I think that may have stung McIntosh & Hawkins...


Nate Kennell 5.8 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 1.7 apg, .439 3-pt shooting (.478 in MVC play - 4th best)
Dru Smith (Evansville) 5.5 ppg, 2.7 rpg, .340 3-pt shooting
Jayden Hodgson 5.3, 1.8 rpg, 1.9 apg, .417 3-pt shooting but .545 in MVC play
(Jayden was almost 7 ppg in league play and 8.5 ppg over the final 8 games)

oh well..............hope our guys use it as motivation!!

[tornado]

Bradley's story on Brown & Bar making the All Freshman team

http://bradleybraves.com/news/2017/2/28/mens-basketball-bar-and-brown-earn-mvc-all-freshman-honors.aspx?elinkdata=116390&utm_medium=sidearm-email&utm_source=bradleybraves.com&utm_campaign=Bar+and+Brown+Earn+MVC+All-Freshman+Honors

[Da Coach]

It is the same phenomenon that kept Hawkins and McIntosh off the 1st team All MVC. The voters just aren't going to vote for more than 1 or 2 guys from the same team. Personally, I would take either Hawkins or McIntosh (or maybe even Jeremy Morgan or Jaylon Brown) over Milton Doyle for my 1st team. I am not saying Doyle isn't a nice player, but he does not do what the 2 ISU guys do to to help them win (Loyola never had a winning MVC record with Doyle in 4 years!).

Both Kennell and Hodgson put up numbers that were in a similar range to Spencer Haldeman and Dru Smith in fewer minutes per game, and they both had far better shooting percentages. But the voters only usually pick 5 players for the All-Freshman team (this year they picked 6), and this year there were a bunch of quality candidates.

A couple other notable omission:
Evanville's Ryan Taylor was left off the All Newcomer team. He was a regular starter, finished 8th in the MVC in scoring and had excellent shooting stats. But with all the good newcomers, there just wasn't a place for him among the top 5 newcomers.

And Missouri State's Dequon Miller did not even make the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd team All MVC! He was the 6th leading scorer in MVC games and the only one of the top 10 scorers not named to one of the 3 All MVC teams. he was also one of the top assists leaders and assist/turnover leaders.
Miller was also the only player from the 2016-17 1st and 2nd team Preseason All MVC not to be on any of the All MVC teams post-season.

Here were the preseason picks-

http://www.mvc-sports.com/mbasketball/news/2016-17/9075/shockers-tabbed-as-mvc-mens-hoops-favorite/#.WLWrgjsrI2w

2016-17 MVC Preseason Team
FIRST TEAM
Markis McDuffie, Wichita State So. 6-8 F Paterson (N.J.) St. Anthony
MiKyle McIntosh, Illinois State Jr. 6-7 F Pickering (Ontario) 22ft Acad.
Jeremy Morgan, UNI Sr. 6-5 G Coralville (Iowa) Iowa City West
Brenton Scott, Indiana State Jr. 6-1 G Fort Wayne (Ind.) Northrop
Paris Lee, Illinois State Sr. 6-0 G Maywood (Ill.) Proviso East

SECOND TEAM
Milton Doyle, Loyola Sr. 6-4 G Chicago (Ill.) Marshall
Dequon Miller, Missouri State Sr. 5-10 G Charleston (W.V.) G. Washington
Shaquille Morris, Wichita State Jr. 6-8 C Edmond (Okla.) Memorial
Sean O'Brien, Southern Illinois Sr. 6-7 F Mundelein (Ill.) High
Reed Timmer, Drake Jr. 6-1 G New Berlin (Wis.) Eisenhower
Preseason Player of the Year: Jeremy Morgan, UNI

[BUSongwriter]

Prediction: Donte Thomas will be on one of these lists at the end of next season.

[tornado]

I have a question...just wondered what other people think

What helps your team more?...
- a 2 pt basket?
- a 3-pt basket?
- a steal?
- an assist?
- a rebound
- a smart play like saving a ball inbounds or diving to regain control & avoid a turnover
- a blocked shot?

what do you think?

First, the reason I ask is because a couple players made the All Defense team - mainly - if not exclusively - because they had a lot of blocked shots.


But, at 2.3 or 2.4 blocks per game - they are really only getting ONE additional block per game over other players who nobody gave a vote to for All Defense.
Seriously - a substantial pct of blocks end up either out of bounds or back in the hands of the team that shot - so many blocks don't change the score by even one point - whereas all 2-pt and 3-pt baskets definitely change the score by at least 2-3 points - as do rebounds, steals, assists and even simple good plays like saving the ball inbounds or setting a decent screen -
all of which are the kind of plays that don't hardly ever get rewarded at the end of the season with any special All-Anything plaque..
I contend that if you drop the BLOCKED SHOTS stat of those players on the All Defense team from 2.4 to 1.4 - I guarantee they wouldn't be on that list at all - so it's that ONE extra blocked shot per game that is the sole thing getting them on that list.
Guys like Shaq Morris & Donte Thomas with lots of rebounds and guys like Mike Rodriguez & Everett Clemons who have a lot of steals don't get the same recognition but help their team every bit as much

Just my two cents but I think every one of those plays listed above helps your team as much or more than a blocked shot but i know blocks DO HELP --

[Da Coach]

Illinois State's Paris Lee is officially the MVC Larry Burd Player of the Year-

http://www.mvc-sports.com/mbasketball/news/2016-17/9404/paris-lee-named-larry-bird-trophy-winner/#.WLXXODsrI2w

LARRY BIRD MVC PLAYER OF THE YEAR: Paris Lee, Illinois State
NEWCOMER OF THE YEAR: Alize Johnson, Missouri State
FRESHMAN OF THE YEAR: Landry Shamet, Wichita State
DEFENSIVE MVP: Paris Lee, Illinois State
SIXTH-MAN OF THE YEAR: Aundre Jackson, Loyola


2017 MVC Larry Bird Trophy Voting (top-six vote-getters only)

Student-Athlete, School 1st 2nd 3rd Points
Paris Lee, Illinois State 33 5 1 110
Markis McDuffie, WSU 3 10 5 34
Landry Shamet, WSU 3 6 9 30
Alize Johnson, Mo. St. 2 9 2 26
Milton Doyle, Loyola U. 2 3 13 25
Jeremy Morgan, No. IA 2 6 4 22

[tornado]

Lee got way more 1st place votes as the rest of the field combined, almost 10 times the 1st place votes as anyone else..
it's about the most one-sided, lopsided win in the history of the MVC Pplayer of the Year voting!

So.... gotta wonder why there were those arguing that this was gonna be close - that Shamet had a powerful argument that he should get it over Lee!

Honestly - every fan I have talked to since the beginning of the season who has actually seen all these guys play - has favored Paris Lee as MVP and POY...so why, other than out-of-touch-with-reality pro-Shocker bias or entitlement, were there some who thought Lee wouldn't get it?

[Stickboy46]

Lee practically got way more 1st place votes as the rest of the field combined, almost 10 times the 1st place votes as anyone else..
it's about the most one-sided, lopsided win in the history of the MVC Pplayer of the Year voting!

So.... gotta wonder why there were those arguing that this was gonna be close - that Shamet had a powerful argument that he should get it over Lee!

Honestly - every fan I have talked to since the beginning of the season who has actually seen all these guys play - has favored Paris Lee as MVP and POY...so why, other than out-of-touch-with-reality pro-Shocker bias or entitlement, were there some who thought Lee wouldn't get it?

There are people out of touch with reality .. but its not Shocker Fans. The fact that Johnson, Doyle, and Morgan got 1st place votes shows that.

[PurpleAceFan]

There are people out of touch with reality .. but its not Shocker Fans. The fact that Johnson, Doyle, and Morgan got 1st place votes shows that.

I agree Stickboy. The fact that anybody voted for anybody either than Shamet or Lee just floors me. I can maybe see McDuffie getting a few votes, but beyond that I just don't understand it. Nothing against Johnson, Doyle, and Morgan....all good players....but we're talking POY here.

[Da Coach]

I agree Stickboy. The fact that anybody voted for anybody either than Shamet or Lee just floors me. I can maybe see McDuffie getting a few votes, but beyond that I just don't understand it. Nothing against Johnson, Doyle, and Morgan....all good players....but we're talking POY here.

One of the problems, which is similar to a lot of other sports, is-
Exactly what is the definition of "Player of the Year"? Should it be the best player on the best team? Should it be the player who is most valuable to his team (why some sports call it MVP)? Or the player who helps win the most games or makes the biggest difference for his team? Should it be the player with the best overall skill, regardless of how good or bad his team is? Or the most exciting and entertaining to watch play? Or should the likelihood they might play professionally and stand out at the next level be factored in? Should it be a senior (IMO this is why Morgan and Doyle got 1st place votes and why Lee got 11 times as many 1st place votes as Shamet)? Should it be the best offensive player? Or the top scorer? Or the best all-around player (maybe another reason some people put Jeremy Morgan 1st)? Should preseason expectations be considered (IMO this may also have been why Jeremy Morgan got two 2st place votes and six 2nd place votes; if he had not been Preseason POY, I cannot believe he would have gotten those).

And one other reason why a couple guys who seem not to have deserved 1st place votes got 2 or 3 - since voters cannot vote for their own team's players, they are forced to vote for someone else, even when their player may deserve the award. But they may be afraid that their player could lose a close vote, so instead of voting for the other obviously deserving player, they vote for someone who has no chance of winning! We all know this does happen.

What would really be interesting is if the MVC required every voter to write in their justification for their top votes with an explanation why they voted for them. I'll bet if we did a re-vote requiring justification, or even if we just made all the voters' identities and votes public, we'd see vastly different results. We wouldn't have to bar them from voting for their own players, because they'd be shamed for doing so if the player wasn't deserving.

This kind of discussion often comes up with picking and MVP, or a POY.
It reminds me of when baseball players like Andre Dawson and Alex Rodriguez won the MVP on last place teams on Major League Baseball.

[Stickboy46]

One of the problems, which is similar to a lot of other sports, is-
Exactly what is the definition of "Player of the Year"? Should it be the best player on the best team? Should it be the player who is most valuable to his team (why some sports call it MVP)? Or the player who helps win the most games or makes the biggest difference for his team? Should it be the player with the best overall skill, regardless of how good or bad his team is? Or the most exciting and entertaining to watch play? Or should the likelihood they might play professionally and stand out at the next level be factored in? Should it be a senior (IMO this is why Morgan and Doyle got 1st place votes and why Lee got 11 times as many 1st place votes as Shamet)? Should it be the best offensive player? Or the top scorer? Or the best all-around player (maybe another reason some people put Jeremy Morgan 1st)? Should preseason expectations be considered (IMO this may also have been why Jeremy Morgan got two 2st place votes and six 2nd place votes; if he had not been Preseason POY, I cannot believe he would have gotten those).

And one other reason why a couple guys who seem not to have deserved 1st place votes got 2 or 3 - since voters cannot vote for their own team's players, they are forced to vote for someone else, even when their player may deserve the award. But they may be afraid that their player could lose a close vote, so instead of voting for the other obviously deserving player, they vote for someone who has no chance of winning! We all know this does happen.

What would really be interesting is if the MVC required every voter to write in their justification for their top votes with an explanation why they voted for them. I'll bet if we did a re-vote requiring justification, or even if we just made all the voters' identities and votes public, we'd see vastly different results. We wouldn't have to bar them from voting for their own players, because they'd be shamed for doing so if the player wasn't deserving.

This kind of discussion often comes up with picking and MVP, or a POY.
It reminds me of when baseball players like Andre Dawson and Alex Rodriguez won the MVP on last place teams on Major League Baseball.

I'd be on board with this. I think it would be really interesting if they had to actually tell people how they voted. Especially Coach of the Year which has major $$$$ implications for a lot of coaches (Bonuses, not getting fired etc etc).

[tornado]

I agree Stickboy. The fact that anybody voted for anybody either than Shamet or Lee just floors me. I can maybe see McDuffie getting a few votes, but beyond that I just don't understand it. Nothing against Johnson, Doyle, and Morgan....all good players....but we're talking POY here.

remember - the Wichita beat writer admitted that last year he voted for Brian Wardle for Coach of the Year..but then admitted the reason he did it was because..
1st- he wasn't allowed to vote for Gregg Marshall who he wanted to win the award
2nd- he didn't want to give his vote to anyone who might beat out Marshall - so he chose Wardle..

Kinda sneaky but perfectly allowable - and that's what I think may have happened this year...
Probably the ISU guys who voted were reluctant to give their votes to the Wichita players & likewise the Wichita guys didn't want to boost Paris Lee's vote totals...
so as a ploy to help their guy they may have each chosen someone else like Johnson or Doyle..

[Chico]

remember - the Wichita beat writer admitted that last year he voted for Brian Wardle for Coach of the Year..but then admitted the reason he did it was because..
1st- he wasn't allowed to vote for Gregg Marshall who he wanted to win the award
2nd- he didn't want to give his vote to anyone who might beat out Marshall - so he chose Wardle..

Kinda sneaky but perfectly allowable - and that's what I think may have happened this year...
Probably the ISU guys who voted were reluctant to give their votes to the Wichita players & likewise the Wichita guys didn't want to boost Paris Lee's vote totals...
so as a ploy to help their guy they may have each chosen someone else like Johnson or Doyle..

If that's the case, I say do away with these kind of awards.

[tornado]

but we've been told all journalists are honest, fair, unbiased and objective .. it's their job to be...
you saying they're not all that way??