Final: Bradley 60 SIU 51

[Da Coach]

Even before the Bradley game, SIU was a distant 10th in the MVC in 3-point shooting. Now they are even more distant 10th. They are a bad 3-point shooting team, no matter how you are trying to spin it. It isn't because of one game.

Usually every year, the teams that rank at the bottom of the MVC 3-point percentage are the teams playing on Thursdays in the St. Louis tournament. I am not saying SIU is a Thursday team, just that teams that shoot poorly from three usually are.

[lefty]

Even before the Bradley game, SIU was a distant 10th in the MVC in 3-point shooting. Now they are even more distant 10th. They are a bad 3-point shooting team, no matter how you are trying to spin it. It isn't because of one game.

Usually every year, the teams that rank at the bottom of the MVC 3-point percentage are the teams playing on Thursdays in the St. Louis tournament. I am not saying SIU is a Thursday team, just that teams that shoot poorly from three usually are.

I'm not trying to spin anything. I've said for years that it doesn't take alit per game for 3 OT shooting stats to change. Now since you brought it if my math is correcy Southern was actually ninth before the Bradley game Indiana State shot 10-24 which brought them up to where they are Before the conference game ISU was .323 and SIU was .327

Doesn't change the fact that shooting is poor
That was never my point. Just saying those stats can change some early in the season with just one game I'm not trying to stick up for SIU really. But they were not a distant 10th before the BU game

[Da Coach]

I'm not trying to spin anything. I've said for years that it doesn't take alit per game for 3 OT shooting stats to change. Now since you brought it if my math is correcy Southern was actually ninth before the Bradley game Indiana State shot 10-24 which brought them up to where they are Before the conference game ISU was .323 and SIU was .327

Doesn't change the fact that shooting is poor
That was never my point. Just saying those stats can change some early in the season with just one game I'm not trying to stick up for SIU really. But they were not a distant 10th before the BU game

Sorry, but I have checked your math, and it appears to be wrong on both the INSU and SIU percentages prior to their last games.

Indiana State is currently 105-314 from three (after 1 conference game). As you stated, they were 10-24 in that game against Wichita State, so that means they were 95-290 prior to that game.

Correct me if I am wrong, but 95-290 is 0.328 (not 0.323), compared to SIU's three point percentage prior to Thursday of 75-230, which is 0.326 (not 0.327).

So I believe I was correct in stating that SIU was 10th in the MVC prior to their game with Bradley.

I am not sure what we are debating. SIU is a very poor shooting team from 3-point. That is all I was saying. That will lose them a lot of games this year. It has always baffled me, and most fans it seems, why coaches don't recruit shooters, and think they can develop shooters, or win without having a 3-point game. Maybe Kentucky can win without 3-point shooters, but not in the MVC. SIU currently ranks 325th out of 351 D1 teams at 30.1%.

[lefty]

Sorry, but I have checked your math, and it appears to be wrong on both the INSU and SIU percentages prior to their last games.

Indiana State is currently 105-314 from three (after 1 conference game). As you stated, they were 10-24 in that game against Wichita State, so that means they were 95-290 prior to that game.

Correct me if I am wrong, but 95-290 is 0.328 (not 0.323), compared to SIU's three point percentage prior to Thursday of 75-230, which is 0.326 (not 0.327).

So I believe I was correct in stating that SIU was 10th in the MVC prior to their game with Bradley.

I am not sure what we are debating. SIU is a very poor shooting team from 3-point. That is all I was saying. That will lose them a lot of games this year. It has always baffled me, and most fans it seems, why coaches don't recruit shooters, and think they can develop shooters, or win without having a 3-point game. Maybe Kentucky can win without 3-point shooters, but not in the MVC. SIU currently ranks 325th out of 351 D1 teams at 30.1%.

That's right For some reason I used 294 shots for Indiana state So SIU was last (not sure I would call .326-.328 distant 10th but last nonetheless . I just think there is more to being at the bottom of the conference than 3 point shooting that's all. My guess is that those teams toward the bottom of the conference aren't very good at rebounding, ft shooting, turnovers , overall fg shooting too. If a team shoots 4-10 it's great and 3-10 it's terrible and yet we are talking about one more made basket.

At the end of the day it seems to me other stats are just as important

[Bradleyfan1]

If you shoot and make 100 2's and I shoot and make 100 3s I win by 100 pts.

Riddle me this riddle me that.

[lefty]

If you shoot and make 100 2's and I shoot and make 100 3s I win by 100 pts.

Riddle me this riddle me that.

I have no idea what that means. That has nothing to do with my point

[ihatetea]

If you shoot and make 100 2's and I shoot and make 100 3s I win by 100 pts.

Riddle me this riddle me that.

I have no idea what that means. That has nothing to do with my point

It does speak to your point. Since 3's are worth 1.5 times what a 2 pointer is worth, they are potentially 1.5 times more important. Seems like a dumb statement written that way. But it is what the nba has realized and embraced just look at the Warriors and rockets, to name the two that have leaned hardest into the concept.

It matters more if you have guys who can actually shoot, which I think we do. And if you don't have the shooters, such as siu, you have to be great at those other statistical categories instead of just being good at them.

Obviously being exceptional at one stat won't make you a winner, and being exceptionally bad at one stat shouldn't make you a loser. But I think da coach was saying poor 3pt percentage is one of the biggest hurdles to overcome. Also since its an element of shooting, it can be an indicator of offensive skill and efficiency. Looking at that one stat should help identify the best offenses in the league and also a general placement in the rankings.

[lefty]

It does speak to your point. Since 3's are worth 1.5 times what a 2 pointer is worth, they are potentially 1.5 times more important. Seems like a dumb statement written that way. But it is what the nba has realized and embraced just look at the Warriors and rockets, to name the two that have leaned hardest into the concept.

It matters more if you have guys who can actually shoot, which I think we do. And if you don't have the shooters, such as siu, you have to be great at those other statistical categories instead of just being good at them.

Obviously being exceptional at one stat won't make you a winner, and being exceptionally bad at one stat shouldn't make you a loser. But I think da coach was saying poor 3pt percentage is one of the biggest hurdles to overcome. Also since its an element of shooting, it can be an indicator of offensive skill and efficiency. Looking at that one stat should help identify the best offenses in the league and also a general placement in the rankings.

I'm not denying the importance of 3 point shooting
I'm just saying if SIU shot 36% it would be the equivalent of barely 1 more 3 per game. I have not looked at their schedule but I doubt if it changes their record much

[ihatetea]

And the counter would be that even making one more per game would cause the opponent to have to guard the guys without the ball slightly closer and open up driving lanes/passing lanes that would allow them to get easier two point shots than they have been getting. And if they were good enough to make one more three per game on the same number of shots they would be better shooters overall and make more of the twos they do get.

That is all presumptive obviously. But I guess what I'm saying is dc's original point that 3pt percentage is an indicator of a good team is something I agree with. If you disagree, so be it. You are entitled to your opinion.

[lefty]

I don't think one more made 3 makes a team defend any different all...just my opinion. I shouldn't have quoted D.C. In the first place because I wasn't really disagreeing as much as stating how it doesn't take much to go from a poor 3 point shooting team to an average on. If SIU shot average they would still have the same record, good shooting teams are usually good at other things as well...again that's just my opinion

I'm done now that horse is dead

[Da Coach]

I'm not denying the importance of 3 point shooting
I'm just saying if SIU shot 36% it would be the equivalent of barely 1 more 3 per game. I have not looked at their schedule but I doubt if it changes their record much

lefty, even this math is not right.

SIU is now 77 of 256 on threes. If they made "1 more 3 per game" (they've played 14 games), they would make them 91 of 270. That is only 33.7%, which would barely be enough to lift them out of 10th place and into 9th place by a tiny 0.1% over Indiana State.

Even if you meant "if one of their missed 3-pointer each game was a made 3-pointer instead", that would make them 91 of 256, which is still not quite 36% (it's 35.5%), and that would still only raise them to 9th place in the MVC, barely ahead of Indiana State, who would be 10th.

Either way, they would still be no better than 9th place among MVC schools, and that's bad.

They would have to make their next 24 three pointers in a row without a miss, just to raise their percentage to 36%, and that would still leave them only in 7th place in the MVC, barely ahead of Drake and Bradley. And that is not going to happen. SIU is now 3.5% behind the next worst 3-point shooting team (Indiana State), which is a huge margin with almost half their schedule behind them. They would have to become one of the top 3-point shooting teams in the last half to reverse their current trend and get out of the bottom of the MVC in that category.

[lefty]

I just took 36% of their 256 which is 92 so 15 more 3's in 14 games

It's not that big of deal guys. Sorry to bother you all

[ihatetea]

Fwiw siu is scoring 71.2 ppg
They allow about 71.6 ppg

So being marginally better on offense on the year might matter. They haven't lost any games by 3 or less but you can't just magically add 3 to every game, since every play impacts every other play. In terms of statistics you have to think about it in terms of averages while thinking mathematically.

[lefty]

Fwiw siu is scoring 71.2 ppg
They allow about 71.6 ppg

So being marginally better on offense on the year might matter. They haven't lost any games by 3 or less but you can't just magically add 3 to every game, since every play impacts every other play. In terms of statistics you have to think about it in terms of averages while thinking mathematically.

Northern Iowa has the worst record I think I'm the MVC and 4th in 3 point shooting

Look at SIU schedule. They either shot good or real bad from 3. I would have to look again but I think there were 3 losses where they had a good percentage

[Bradleyfan1]

Speaking of 3 pt shooting. How bout that Nate Kennel? He's 10 of 24 for 41 % in only 154 mins played.