Final Four Scholarships

[Chico]

Lifted from the Joel Okafor thread-


When I posted that top statement Thursday morning, Omari was who I was referring to. Many of you PM'ed me and know that. Now, apparently, it has become public knowledge.
There have been multiple rumors swirling about this since he is on track to graduate. He is thinking about transferring and playing his final season closer to home (New Jersey). But the culture shock of the new environment surrounding the coaching change is a major reason he has changed his mind about staying.

Sounds to me like he didn't like the culture shock of working a little harder.

[Old Coach]

Wily C......Your comment regarding Omari is out of line and mean spirited! While Omari may have been a marginal player, I can assure you that he is a great kid. He is polite, intelligent and well-spoken. He is a good student who wants to go to law school and become a lawyer like his Father. Your statement is not at all well grounded and was demeaning to you.
Wiz

You're calling someone's comment mean-spirited?

That's rich.

[tornado]

Brian Wardle is in Minneapolis, MN watching the Illinois Irish & Tim Finke - Class of 2018 & younger brother of Illini Michael Finke among others

https://twitter.com/coreyevans_10/status/592109362610511872

http://247sports.com/Player/Tim-Finke-77093

http://www.prephoopsillinois.com/players-2018-tim-finke

http://www.news-gazette.com/sports/prep-sports/boys-basketball/2014-07-13/younger-finkes-just-getting-started.html

http://www.ny2lasports.com/article_one.aspx?articleid=2029

some video

http://www.illinoishomepage.net/story/d/story/finke-opening-eyes-as-freshman-starter/32711/njB5-YB-uE2Bj0XWJjh3oQ

[Old Coach]

Brian Wardle is in Minneapolis, MN watching the Illinois Irish & Tim Finke - Class of 2018 & younger brother of Illini Michael Finke among others

https://twitter.com/coreyevans_10/status/592109362610511872

http://247sports.com/Player/Tim-Finke-77093

http://www.prephoopsillinois.com/players-2018-tim-finke

http://www.news-gazette.com/sports/prep-sports/boys-basketball/2014-07-13/younger-finkes-just-getting-started.html

http://www.ny2lasports.com/article_one.aspx?articleid=2029

some video
http://www.illinoishomepage.net/stor...uE2Bj0XWJjh3oQ

That's interesting. I think Tim Finke is going to easily be a high major.

[BU freak]

Wardle and Gavin Sullivan are good friends. Finke is going high major so Wardle is most likely looking at other Irish 16u team members. Kansas and Illinois are already on Finke so the chances he ends up at BU are slim and none. I'm sure we will offer Finke but it would be a miracle if he ends up here. The Irish are populated with Mid and Low Major players so I'm guessing that he is scouting the rest of the team more than Finke.

[tornado]

Time will tell ---
I read a lot of opinions that Michael Finke was also going to be an immediate impact at the high DI level....but he isn't.
He never played a single minute even for a team like the Illini who were desperately shallow in the frontcourt having only 2 players over 6-7

Plus - even as recently as a few days ago - after Finke's already redshirted a year - the Illini courted then landed yet another midmajor transfer - and it was said that it still wasn't at all that certain that Finke'd be ready or able to contribute in 2015-16.

[bradleyfan124]

Wardle and Gavin Sullivan are good friends. Finke is going high major so Wardle is most likely looking at other Irish 16u team members. Kansas and Illinois are already on Finke so the chances he ends up at BU are slim and none. I'm sure we will offer Finke but it would be a miracle if he ends up here. The Irish are populated with Mid and Low Major players so I'm guessing that he is scouting the rest of the team more than Finke.

People we need to stop this, " we cant", attitude. Understandable to be realistic but you recruit a kid until he tells you "No". Kids choose a college for various reasons but out of 30 high caliber kids who say no sometime there may be that one who says yes. No gain if you don't try.

[Old Coach]

Time will tell ---
I read a lot of opinions that Michael Finke was also going to be an immediate impact at the high DI level....but he isn't.
He never played a single minute even for a team like the Illini who were desperately shallow in the frontcourt having only 2 players over 6-7

Plus - even as recently as a few days ago - after Finke's already redshirted a year - the Illini courted then landed yet another midmajor transfer - and it was said that it still wasn't at all that certain that Finke'd be ready or able to contribute in 2015-16.

Illinois actually had 4 players over 6' 7" on the roster last season (including Finke). That said, I think taking Thorne as a 1 year player to replace Egwu makes a lot of sense. Finke certainly isn't going to step in and play 25 minutes per game as a redshirt freshman.

[Vent]

Illinois appears to be a classic example of a low to mid-major coach, going to a larger program, and failing to have much success. Groce has been able to recruit some good guards in the 5'-10" to 6'-4" range. His problem has been what is often the problem of coaches that move up to a higher level, and that is recruiting bigger players. He is finding it difficult to compete for the Big 10 title with average forwards and centers.

[Da Coach]

Illinois actually had 4 players over 6' 7" on the roster last season (including Finke). That said, I think taking Thorne as a 1 year player to replace Egwu makes a lot of sense. Finke certainly isn't going to step in and play 25 minutes per game as a redshirt freshman.

I am not sure who you are counting. There were really only 3 bigs on the active roster, since Finke redshirted just before their season started. And only 2 of them were over 6'7". Here is their roster-

http://www.fightingillini.com/sports/m-baskbl/m-baskbl-roster.html

The Illinois' bigs were-
Leron Black- listed at 6'7", 220 but probably only 6'6" and not quite 220- played pretty well for a freshman, but way undersized for a Big Ten power forward

Maverick Morgan- 6'10"- I have seen enough to conclude he is not a Big Ten level player. Despite the lack of big men, he played under 9 minutes per game (mostly garbage time).

Nnanna Egwu- 6'11, 250 (probably nowhere near 250), but he was the only marginal quality big man on the team the last 2 years., but underwhelming production.

Michael Finke- 6'10" freshman with good skills, but who was a lot skinnier and weaker that Groce expected despite an intense workout program last summer. Despite the void of quality bigs on Illinois, Coach Groce insisted he redshirt. There were reports that the Finkes weren't happy about it.

So for a team trying to compete in a league loaded with good big men, Illinois' entire stable of big men consisted of Nnanna Egwu and 2 freshmen (one undersized and the other lacking talent). And now Egwu is gone (graduated). IMO, Finke will not even be able to replace the meager numbers the Illini lose next year from Egwu.

So despite having good quality and depth at guard, Illinois could do no better than 9-9 in the Big Ten. Their post-season was extremely disappointing. They were 1 and done in the Big Ten Tournament (blown out by a mediocre Michigan team that didn't even make the NCAA or the NIT Tournaments), then Illinois missed the NCAA, then went 1 and done in the NIT with an even more lopsided blowout loss to an Alabama team that finished with a losing record in the SEC (8-10), and a disappointing 19-15 overall, and fired their coach.

Here are the stats for the only 3 big men who played. These are amazingly poor numbers for an entire frontcourt of a Big Ten team--
Egwu- 6.5 ppg and 5.9 rpg
Black- 5.1 ppg, 4.3 rpg
Morgan- 2.5 ppg, 1.5 rpg (these numbers make Mike Shaw look like a superstar)
Totals- 14.1 ppg, 11.7 rpg for their entire frontcourt

And as mentioned, now Egwu is gone. Finke, Black, and Morgan are the only bigs returning. So you'd think Groce would go out and sign some quality big men? But the only recruit even close to a "big man" was D.J. Williams, who is an undersized small forward who plays more on the wing. They did just get a 5th-year transfer 6'10" Mike Thorne from Charlotte. He'll help a little as a 1-year stopgap, but I have seen him play, and he is also not a Big Ten caliber player. IMO, Illinois is going to struggle again in the Big Ten next year and in future years until Groce can recruit some quality bigs.

[Old Coach]

I am not sure who you are counting. There were really only 3 bigs on the active roster, since Finke redshirted just before their season started. And only 2 of them were over 6'7". Here is their roster-

http://www.fightingillini.com/sports/m-baskbl/m-baskbl-roster.html

The Illinois' bigs were-
Leron Black- listed at 6'7", 220 but probably only 6'6" and not quite 220- played pretty well for a freshman, but way undersized for a Big Ten power forward

Maverick Morgan- 6'10"- I have seen enough to conclude he is not a Big Ten level player. Despite the lack of big men, he played under 9 minutes per game (mostly garbage time).

Nnanna Egwu- 6'11, 250 (probably nowhere near 250), but he was the only marginal quality big man on the team the last 2 years., but underwhelming production.

Michael Finke- 6'10" freshman with good skills, but who was a lot skinnier and weaker that Groce expected despite an intense workout program last summer. Despite the void of quality bigs on Illinois, Coach Groce insisted he redshirt. There were reports that the Finkes weren't happy about it.

So for a team trying to compete in a league loaded with good big men, Illinois' entire stable of big men consisted of Nnanna Egwu and 2 freshmen (one undersized and the other lacking talent). And now Egwu is gone (graduated). IMO, Finke will not even be able to replace the meager numbers the Illini lose next year from Egwu.

So despite having good quality and depth at guard, Illinois could do no better than 9-9 in the Big Ten. Their post-season was extremely disappointing. They were 1 and done in the Big Ten Tournament (blown out by a mediocre Michigan team that didn't even make the NCAA or the NIT Tournaments), then Illinois missed the NCAA, then went 1 and done in the NIT with an even more lopsided blowout loss to an Alabama team that finished with a losing record in the SEC (8-10), and a disappointing 19-15 overall, and fired their coach.

Here are the stats for the only 3 big men who played. These are amazingly poor numbers for an entire frontcourt of a Big Ten team--
Egwu- 6.5 ppg and 5.9 rpg
Black- 5.1 ppg, 4.3 rpg
Morgan- 2.5 ppg, 1.5 rpg (these numbers make Mike Shaw look like a superstar)
Totals- 14.1 ppg, 11.7 rpg for their entire frontcourt

And as mentioned, now Egwu is gone. Finke, Black, and Morgan are the only bigs returning. So you'd think Groce would go out and sign some quality big men? But the only recruit even close to a "big man" was D.J. Williams, who is an undersized small forward who plays more on the wing. They did just get a 5th-year transfer 6'10" Mike Thorne from Charlotte. He'll help a little as a 1-year stopgap, but I have seen him play, and he is also not a Big Ten caliber player. IMO, Illinois is going to struggle again in the Big Ten next year and in future years until Groce can recruit some quality bigs.

I didn't say any of them were any good, but there were 4 players over 6' 7" on the roster (including Finke). So of course, only 3 players over 6' 7" actually played. You're excluding 6' 9" sophomore Austin Colbert, who is transferring.

[Old Coach]

And you're right, I don't think Finke will replace Egwu's numbers, but Thorne probably will. Michael will probably be a rotation player as redshirt freshmen.

[Da Coach]

I knew it seemed I was omitting someone.
For some reason, they already removed Colbert from this year's roster. But he was even more of a dissapointment than any of the others, playing in only 20 games, just 7.5 minutes a game, and averaging an embarrassing 1.7 ppg and 2.2 rpg.
I am an Illinois fan (though a much bigger Bradley fan) and I have degrees from both schools, so I would really like to see them actually break into the top echelon again some day. That isn't going to happen until they can land quality big men again.

[tornado]

Like I said -- Colbert, Morgan, Finke - these guys barely or never played and are the epitome of having an incredibly shallow frontcourt - just as I said..
If you are 6-10, supposed to be an immediate impact player and cannot find even a minute of playing time in that shallow frontcourt then just maybe it raises questions that he is even a "high major" player...

[Old Coach]

Like I said -- Colbert, Morgan, Finke - these guys barely or never played and are the epitome of having an incredibly shallow frontcourt - just as I said..
If you are 6-10, supposed to be an immediate impact player and cannot find even a minute of playing time in that shallow frontcourt then just maybe it raises questions that he is even a "high major" player...

I've never heard anyone refer to any of those 3 as "an immediate impact player". I was simply pointing out that they had 4 players over 6' 7" on their roster. No claims were made that any of them are good players.