New Bradley Braves

[ihatetea]

I seem to remember people being pretty excited by the Shayok and Hodges signings initially. Yes, the GF era didn't work out in the end, but lets not act like things were always grim. I'd say Ford had some signings that were very exciting, but they didn't pan. If you want to blast Ford for not developing players, fine. But lets not sit here and compare players we barely remember vs players we barely know.

I agree with Fyre. The only freshman that Geno brought in that I didn't think had any chance to have an impact in the Valley were Donivine Stewart (too small/not quick enough) and Devon Hodges (not skilled/athletic). I'm sure everyone remembers Shayok against Michigan, or Taylor in that game where he didn't foul until the second half, or KaDaryll Bell in the last 5 or so games of his freshman year when they all showed potential of being very good. I would get excited for the coming years to only be disappointed when the players either didn't get any better or even regressed.

I would say Geno's failure wasn't in bringing in players with no talent or potential. His failure was in not bringing out the best in his players or having them develop from year to year.

Hopefully Coach Wardle will not have that issue.

[Fyrebyrd]

I agree with Fyre. The only freshman that Geno brought in that I didn't think had any chance to have an impact in the Valley were Donivine Stewart (too small/not quick enough) and Devon Hodges (not skilled/athletic). I'm sure everyone remembers Shayok against Michigan, or Taylor in that game where he didn't foul until the second half, or KaDaryll Bell in the last 5 or so games of his freshman year when they all showed potential of being very good. I would get excited for the coming years to only be disappointed when the players either didn't get any better or even regressed.

I would say Geno's failure wasn't in bringing in players with no talent or potential. His failure was in not bringing out the best in his players or having them develop from year to year.

Hopefully Coach Wardle will not have that issue.

to be fair, Donivine was a hold over recruit from Les. He decided to stay once Geno took over.

[Da Coach]

So you think Geno's recruits were as good as the first 3 Wardle recruits?
FTR, I do not. I see a significant higher level of talent, team concept, and upside. Again, everyone is entitled to their opinions.

[Fyrebyrd]

So you think Geno's recruits were as good as the first 3 Wardle recruits?
FTR, I do not. I see a significant higher level of talent, team concept, and upside. Again, everyone is entitled to their opinions.

You think all 3 are more talented than Cunningham? Ok, agree to disagree there.

[ihatetea]

So you think Geno's recruits were as good as the first 3 Wardle recruits?
FTR, I do not. I see a significant higher level of talent, team concept, and upside. Again, everyone is entitled to their opinions.

I do not know. I want to reserve final judgement until I see them play in person, against and with D1 players. To compare apples to apples, I think Suggs looks better right now than Swopshire or Zecevic. I never saw any of Crawford's highlight videos so I do not know how he compares to either Suggs or DLO. And comparing DLO to Bell, Bell looked like a better athlete, while DLO looks like a better shooter and scorer. I think DLO will contribute more as a freshman and probably be better.

That is all of the wings that Geno brought in that I can remember.

I haven't seen video on Okafor and it is hard to compare guards to bigs in terms of talent level. I also won't compare freshman to jucos and transfers as they aren't at the same level of personal development. So that's as far as I will go right now.

I can let you know in 8 or so months what my opinion of the new guys is. Until then I can only hope we hear more good news, and have a couple of bigs to have this same exact argument about in the coming days. I actually enjoy the exchange of opinions like this.

Forgot to include Thomas as wing -- Thomas I would argue has more potential than Suggs. It would take him to show real improvement as a shooter. Suggs doesn't look like he will struggle to shoot but physically isn't as impressive. I think Suggs is more of a defined player with and is more of a sure thing while Thomas has a higher ceiling.

[Da Coach]

What dampened my enthusiasm about Geno's recruits was how so many of them were atypical recruits and how few of them were the standard 4-year high school recruit that is recruited, followed for a while, and then signed out of high school. We had very few of the standard high school recruits that every other college coach knows he needs to build around to be successful.

There were that so many of our recruits who had an unsettling pattern of changing HS and prep teams (Hodges, Crawford, Shayok, Swopshire, Zecevic, and Blake all attended 2, 3, or more HS and prep teams) or were not very good shooters (Crawford, Hodges, Shayok, Fields, Bell, Shaw, and Blake were all poor shooters in HS and juco), or who were jucos (Pickett, Barnes, Blake, Jones, Sutherland, Amerson, Morgan all withing a 2-3 year span).

Dave Reynolds said it best in his critique of Jim Les back in 2008 during a stretch of four 20+ win seasons in a row-
Too Many Jucos for Bradley

http://www.pjstar.com/x518440851/Reynolds-Too-many-jucos-for-Bradley

[pfcmsh]

I Think I Started The Debate

I think I may have started this recent, spirited dialog. You guys know so much and I know so little. Maybe I'm too optimistic? Perhaps.

I think it is safe to say that Coach Wardle can only do better than the previous coach. We all like Chris Reynolds. Won't he turn out to provide better results than the previous AD? That is a better coach, recruiter, talent evaluator, talent developer? Let's not forget how poorly we were doing before these changes. All that has happened in one month has to produce much better results than what we suffered through the last 4 years. Any change has to be for the better.

[ihatetea]

What dampened my enthusiasm about Geno's recruits was how so many of them were atypical recruits and how few of them were the standard 4-year high school recruit that is recruited, followed for a while, and then signed out of high school. We had very few of the standard high school recruits that every other college coach knows he needs to build around to be successful.

There were that so many of our recruits who had an unsettling pattern of changing HS and prep teams (Hodges, Crawford, Shayok, Swopshire, Zecevic, and Blake all attended 2, 3, or more HS and prep teams) or were not very good shooters (Crawford, Hodges, Shayok, Fields, Bell, Shaw, and Blake were all poor shooters in HS and juco), or who were jucos (Pickett, Barnes, Blake, Jones, Sutherland, Amerson, Morgan all withing a 2-3 year span).

Dave Reynolds said it best in his critique of Jim Les back in 2008 during a stretch of four 20+ win seasons in a row-
Too Many Jucos for Bradley
http://www.pjstar.com/x518440851/Rey...os-for-Bradley

I would agree with that, even if I have a sunnier opinion of the talent levels of Shayok, Bell and Crawford. Geno failed to get and develop freshman then compounded the error by trying to get quick fixes that weren't as good as what he thought they were. He missed quite horribly on all three transfer players and none of his jucos were team leader types like Theron Wilson was. Instead we got guys who were more like "the missing piece" except we had too many pieces missing. IMO that is what juco should be reserved for though, filling a weakness, not trying to create a team from scratch the way we were trying the last two years especially. If you look at the way Greg Marshall has tried to use jucos the last three or so years he has looked for bigs that can supplement his stellar guard play. It has worked for him because he has a rock solid foundation and these players aren't asked to be something they had never been before.

[ihatetea]

To get back on the theme of this thread, I am excited to see what the three new guys can do. All of DLO's videos are encouraging and Suggs could be a really good find. I am trying to be more subdued in my optimism after the dismal showing last year but it's hard not to feel good right now.

[bradleyfan124]

Reading that Okafor made 1st team All-State and will play in the Indiana All-Star game against Kentucky tells me someone else must think he is good also

[tornado]

DaCoach and Tornado can you both post your basketball resumes? I mean no ill will but it would help everyone value your opinions more. ...!

what?? This is an amazing request....
for the 15-20 years I have been following basketball on message boards and really for the 50 years I have played, coached, and watched the game I have heard thousands of people express their opinions and NEVER ONCE have I demanded their post their credentials before having an opinion.

If everyone here must have credentials that sufficiently satisfy everyone, then the message board would empty...

but I have been right the better part of the past four years about every aspect of this failed program and the need to jettison the top brass in a truly unprecedented fashion...

BTW- do you feel the same about the media who offer the MOST opinions but have been wrong more than everyone else on these boards combined?
....3-4 years ago Kirk Wessler pronounced - "The Bradley Braves’ long basketball nightmare is over." - nope, it was just beginning... but we're waking up now....

[Old Coach]

Reading that Okafor made 1st team All-State and will play in the Indiana All-Star game against Kentucky tells me someone else must think he is good also

If my memory serves me correctly, I believe that Bradley had a recruit several years ago who played for the Kentucky team in that All-Star game. He didn't pan out with the Braves.

[Da Coach]

For the record, the Indiana teams consistent have a far higher level of talent than the Kentucky teams, and pound them pretty good.

Indiana has won the last 13 games, and an amazing 29 out of the last 32. The Indiana team has produced numerous All Americans and NBA players. Not so much from Kentucky.

[Chico]

DaCoach and Tornado can you both post your basketball resumes? I mean no ill will but it would help everyone value your opinions more. I know you do your research but tell us why that would matter. I think Wardle is a good coach and recruiter that will do well! Hope you dont delete this!

The key word, and you used it, is opinions. I don't always agree with Coach and T, in fact I've been deleted for IMO less than what you wrote, but this is an opinion board. In fact, you gave us your opinion near the end of your post but I don't think anyone will ask for your resume.

[Da Coach]

DaCoach and Tornado can you both post your basketball resumes? I mean no ill will but it would help everyone value your opinions more. I know you do your research but tell us why that would matter. I think Wardle is a good coach and recruiter that will do well! Hope you dont delete this!

HERE THEY ARE IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER-
> Bradley grad
> Love and support Bradley athletics
> Season ticket buyer for over 40 years
> Have opinions and want to see Bradley succeed
> Own Bradleyfans.com