Drake blows out Bradley at home 69-57

[Da Coach]

...
but even tho I believe they picked us 5th, our media has just lowered the bar on what they will call a great BU season, as Dave Reynolds just wrote...
"Whether the Braves are able to ...avoid the Thursday play-in round of the MVC tournament for the first time in five years is the biggest question..
.. Starting the tournament on Friday could help the Braves begin to return to relevance in the conference again."

Wow, does Dave even realize how silly this kind of statement seems? He seems gleeful about the prospect of Bradley, in their 4th season under a new coaching regime, maybe finishing all the way as high as 6th place and avoiding the Thursday play-in games for the first time under Geno. Of course, such a finish would only result in another embarrassing one-and-done exit from the tournament like we have seen every year under Geno, even though 2 of the last 3 seasons we were playing teams seeded below us in the play-in round!

I seem to recall virtually every Bradley fan (and even our friends in the media), whether they were pro JL-firing or anti JL-firing having expectations of a top 4 finish by year 3, and challenging for championships by year 4. How far have we fallen when we now have pipe dreams of finishing ahead of a flock of 250+ RPI teams to make it all the way to 6th to avoid the dreaded play-in Thursday in year 4.

However, Dave fails to mention that the MVC is greatly weakened from where it was 4 years ago. And the bottom half of the MVC this year is unbelievably bad. Finishing 6th this year is no trophy, since there are 4 other teams (Drake, SIU, Loyola, and Missouri State) that are pathetically weak, especially now that Marcus Marshall quit, and Milton Doyle is out with an injury.

But I hate to disagree with Dave. An artificial accomplishment like this will have absolutely no bearing on the Braves "returning to relevance in the conference again". That will only be accomplished by building quality, well-rounded teams with great talent, great recruiting, great depth, and great coaching, things that clearly this Bradley does not possess. Those things don't suddenly appear just by some arbitrary accomplishment of finishing ahead of some really bad teams. Bradley is still sitting with an RPI of about 270 and headed for another 20-loss season. Is that really something Dave thinks makes Bradley relevant in the MVC again?

[Da Coach]

Dave Reynolds' pregame article
Drake heads to Bradley for a 'big game'

http://www.pjstar.com/article/20150127/SPORTS/150129231/12701/SPORTS

And after ending a 5-game losing streak with a 2-point home win over a weakened MSU team, Ray Giacoletti says Bradley is playing their best basketball of the season right now-

???We need to get refocused and get ready for Bradley,??? said Giacoletti, an East Peoria native. ???They??™re definitely playing their best basketball of the season right now.???

[Buesch N Chips]

So a Coach / team that was predicted 5th and currently sits in 5th has underachieved the most?

Also that team that is playing more like A 6th or 7th place team just took the 18th rated team in the country to the buzzer!

Gonna be a fun finish!

And the first place vote was merely a tool used to motivate his team, and that vote also over-inflated their total points in the rankings. I'm no Muller fan, but let's be honest.

Exhibit A of why coaches should not be able to vote for their own team.

[BU212121]

Muller taking a lot of unfair heat on the board as far as I'm concerned.

He will be 5-4 in the MVC after tonight and on his way to a 10-8 MVC Season.

Will have gone from 8 - 10 6th, to 9 - 9 5th, to 10 - 8 4th and will have everyone back and ready to make a splash in year 4.

Seems like a solid coach to me.

Not to mention overall winning season every year even with a tougher schedule.

[Da Coach]

Muller taking a lot of unfair heat on the board as far as I'm concerned.

He will be 5-4 in the MVC after tonight and on his way to a 10-8 MVC Season.

Will have gone from 8 - 10 6th, to 9 - 9 5th, to 10 - 8 4th and will have everyone back and ready to make a splash in year 4.

Seems like a solid coach to me.

Not to mention overall winning season every year even with a tougher schedule.

Although you will not find any posts by me criticizing Muller, what you describe as a improvement by ISU, really isn't as much of an improvement as it would appear. I guess I have to keep reminding Dave, Kirk, and everyone else that the conference has gotten significantly weaker these last couple years. Just the loss of Creighton and the addition of a 10th place Loyola last year was the main factor that moved everyone up a notch last year (including accounting for the only "improvement" Bradley can claim), and the abysmal failure of Drake, Bradley, Missouri State, SIU, and now Loyola, are a major factor for the "rise" of teams like ILSU, INSU, and Evansville in 2014-15.

I am not knocking them. They have done what they needed to do to separate themselves from the garbage that fills the bottom half of the current MVC. But the decline of half of the league, and the loss of Creighton has much more to do with where they are in the MVC now.

[tornado]

Muller taking a lot of unfair heat on the board as far as I'm concerned.

He will be 5-4 in the MVC after tonight and on his way to a 10-8 MVC Season....

OK - I will defend my opinion with facts whether the ISU people want to be honest and admit these are proven facts or not.
Jank's record for 5 seasons before Muller arrived was 104-64 & 48-42 in MVC -
and FOUR Top-3 finishes in his five years in the MVC!!!

Muller took over a program that was winning - & returning almost EVERYONE - he didn't come in to clean up or rebuild from a fired coach...

He inherited a team that had just won 21 games and returned all-conference caliber players such as Jackie Carmichael, Tyler Brown, John Wilkins, etc...
In fact FOUR of the five prior seasons, ISU had won over 20 games (21, 22, 24, & 25!!)

But in the 3 seasons under Muller - now, suddenly they are clearly mediocre and underperforming...
even with those All-conference guys - they went 8-10 in the Valley.
Muller's overall MVC record is 23-23 - and the MVC is considerably weaker now with Loyola subbing for Creighton!
Muller has also had more home losses..
Jank had just 3 home losses in 35 games the last year but Muller has had 12 already in just over 2 seasons here.

Then you have all the player arrests, discipline issues, drug problems, dismissals, the revolving door with numerous players - many his own recruits - getting booted at the end of each season!
There's been a fair amount of turmoil that's also evidence of part of his coaching ability he still has to hone.

So - if you ask me what I think - I believe Dan Muller is a bright guy and a good coach - but he's still learning and is where Jim Les was in year 2 or 3 and still has a long way to go to become a very good coach...

[LittleBrave]

Really sad when Geno is hyped about having a strong finish to finish 6th in the Valley for the first time since coming to BU...doubt we'll end up there anyhow, but way to stay positive.

I will finally get to see Bradley this season...did not buy BU TV nor have had a chance to watch on TV...will be interesting as I haven't seen half the players.

[tornado]

Drake is the worst team in the Valley
They are incredibly weak on the road and have gone winless on the road and winless even at neutral sites...
such that they are 0-11 away from home...with most of their road losses being HUGE 20 to 30 point blowouts...


so, I find it interesting....because it used to be that when we played the bottom-dweller here at home - it was A GIVEN that we'd cruise to an easy win....
this ought to be a laffer - an easy win that fans can expect to see some offensive highlights and slam dunks...

BUT nooooo...this is a worrisome game, a game that even Dave Reynolds is picking as dangerously close and it is truly sad that as a team we have to even worry about beating a 250RPI bottom dweller on our own home court. This game is now a must win challenge...

[cpacmel]

Sorry Tornado, you play the missing player (Marshall) card for Missouri state but not for Illinois State. When ISU lost to the Trees in Normal for example , ISU was down 2.5 starters. Probably made a difference in a 2 point game, wouldn't you think?

I understand Muller voted ISU #1. But 45 other voters wichita state #1. And when you calculate all the votes, ISU was 5th. Which is exactly where they sit today.

It didn't rile me up. I love a good mvc debate.

ISU at Loyola on Saturday..... Do braves fans root for ISU in that one ?

[cpacmel]

And the first place vote was merely a tool used to motivate his team, and that vote also over-inflated their total points in the rankings. I'm no Muller fan, but let's be honest.

Exhibit A of why coaches should not be able to vote for their own team.

Actually I think muller believed at the end of the season ISU would be #1 in the conference. I didn't share that belief with him....

[cpacmel]

OK - I will defend my opinion with facts whether the ISU people want to be honest and admit these are proven facts or not.
Jank's record for 5 seasons before Muller arrived was 104-64 & 48-42 in MVC -
and FOUR Top-3 finishes in his five years in the MVC!!!

Muller took over a program that was winning - & returning almost EVERYONE - he didn't come in to clean up or rebuild from a fired coach...

He inherited a team that had just won 21 games and returned all-conference caliber players such as Jackie Carmichael, Tyler Brown, John Wilkins, etc...
In fact FOUR of the five prior seasons, ISU had won over 20 games (21, 22, 24, & 25!!)

But in the 3 seasons under Muller - now, suddenly they are clearly mediocre and underperforming...
even with those All-conference guys - they went 8-10 in the Valley.
Muller's overall MVC record is 23-23 - and the MVC is considerably weaker now with Loyola subbing for Creighton!
Muller has also had more home losses..
Jank had just 3 home losses in 35 games the last year but Muller has had 12 already in just over 2 seasons here.

Then you have all the player arrests, discipline issues, drug problems, dismissals, the revolving door with numerous players - many his own recruits - getting booted at the end of each season!
There's been a fair amount of turmoil that's also evidence of part of his coaching ability he still has to hone.

So - if you ask me what I think - I believe Dan Muller is a bright guy and a good coach - but he's still learning and is where Jim Les was in year 2 or 3 and still has a long way to go to become a very good coach...

Man is there a lot to cover in there....but I will let this thread try and get back on topic.

Only thing I will say, is it's not fair to compare Jank's and muller's overall records. Both have very different scheduling philosophies.....

[tornado]

I am not playing any cards - just going on the talent available and how they have done with it....
I wouldn't go as far as Giacoletti but ISU has more talent than MSU...
just facts - and Lusk may have to be judged regardless of player losses-
but MSU loses their very best player, veteran, team leader - a guy who might have led the league in scoring - and they lose him effectively for the entire MVC season.
They also lost other personnel (Mvouika, Thurman..)

ISU starts four veteran players and lost a freshman & newcomer juco for 1/3 to 1/2 the season...
we'll see - tonight ISU plays at home against a struggling Missouri State team without a leader or reliable scorer...
if they struggle to put the Bears away, then I will rest my case....

[cpacmel]

I am not playing any cards - just going on the talent available and how they have done with it....
I wouldn't go as far as Giacoletti but ISU has more talent than MSU...
just facts - and Lusk may have to be judged regardless of player losses-
but MSU loses their very best player, veteran, team leader - a guy who might have led the league in scoring - and they lose him effectively for the entire MVC season.
They also lost other personnel (Mvouika, Thurman..)

Despite have all that talent, ISU was still voted 5th by 40 some mvc personnel.

ISU has lost Hawkins, Purcell, reggie Lynch, and Paris Lee for different parts of the mvc season to date. And even when a player comes back, that doesn't mean they aren't hampered some still by their injuries.

By the way ISU beat mo state in Springfield with Marshall and playing without Hawkins by 14 after leading by 22 at half. Were you impressed with mo state in the non conf? Did they look like a top 4 mvc team to you, with Marshall? I didn't see them being a factor.

ISU starts four veteran players and lost a freshman & newcomer juco for 1/3 to 1/2 the season...
we'll see - tonight ISU plays at home against a struggling Missouri State team without a leader or reliable scorer...
if they struggle to put the Bears away, then I will rest my case....

ISU has been Starting 1 SR, 3 sophs and a freshman.

[Vent]

The MVC is just another run of the mill, mid-major conference, once you get by the top two or three teams, on an annual basis. The talent in the Valley is nowhere near where it use to be. All you have to do is look at the number of Valley players in the NBA. To my knowledge there are only two, Cleanthony Early and Kyle Korver, I may have missed somebody, but not intentionally.

As for BU and ISU (red), I am a BU fan. I also believe there is no comparison between the BU program and ISU (red). I think Muller will eventually have a successful program and move on to a higher level. The sign of a successful mid major program is when coaches move up to the next level. ISU just had Jankovich move on to SMU as an assistant and get paid more money than he did at ISU as a head coach. I wasn't a big Jankovich fan, but he did move up to a better conference and program. Ford will have a hard time finding a job and Cal-Davis in the Big West is a far cry from SMU in the American Athletic Conference (old Big East).

It wouldn't bother me one bit if ISU didn't win another basketball game this year. But the quality of their program is light years ahead of ours.

[Da Coach]

ISU has lost Hawkins, Purcell, reggie Lynch, and Paris Lee for different parts of the mvc season to date.

How many of those guys have been MVC 1st team All Conference and averaged 20 points per game? I have been on record saying I like the kids MUller has recruited, but I don't think losing any of those guys is close to comparable to the affect losing Marshall is.