Final: Bradley 52 Texas A&M-Corpus Christi 38

[Da Coach]

Bradley fans have lost patience with a program that....has been in free fall since 2007.

I am not sure what Kirk defines as "free fall", but to me it implies a terrible team unable to beat anyone of significance.
While I agree that term may apply to last year and this year, to apply it to winning teams from 2007-2008, 2008-2009, or even 2009-2010 is, IMO, inappropriate, and seems to fit with the continued attempts by some to rewrite history to make some feel better about demanding the change that lead to such massive fallout, destroyed a great program, and brought Bradley down to the bottom 25% of Division I.

Here are the actual facts, not just unverified claims:
Year........Record......MVC......RPI....Blowout losses
2007-08....21-17.......9-9.......107......0
2008-09....21-15......10-8......103......1
2009-10....16-15.......9-9.......101......0

So Bradley's RPI actually improved over that 3 year span, they had winning records every year, never had a losing MVC season, and had only 1 blowout loss (loss by 20 or more points)- at Florida 11/16/08. In addition Jim Les-recruited players were named All Conference every year, including 1st teamers. Not exactly "Free fall".

By comparison, these last 3 years, we have compiled 62 losses (most ever in any 3 year stretch under any previous Bradley coach), never come close to a winning record in the MVC, played far softer non-conference schedules, played in 3 straight Thursday play-in games, and lost all 3 (something unprecedented in MVC history), and lost a whopping 14 different games by 20 points or more, and 7 of them were by 30 or more points, including several on our home court. And if we ever get back to having 5 winning seasons in a row, averaging close to 20 wins per year, and RPI's anywhere near 100, I guarantee we'll see Kirk doing cartwheels and proclaiming Bradley a success again, but because it was with a coach he wanted fired, it qualifies as "free fall".

[lefty]

I don't care for the word free fall really….if he says it was going downhill since 08 then it could be considered correct…..I don't think everything is directed to Les though. I think he's saying there hasn't been much success since then….I wouldn't consider a 500 conference record success….obviously it's better than we have been the last few years….

But I think the main part of the article is about patience for this year…and for fans not to bail just yet on this year…….and the process for this year not the last 3-4 years……just my opinion.

[Da Coach]

I wouldn't consider a 500 conference record success??¦..

I don't think it would qualify as free fall, either, but that's just me. I know many weren't happy with 10-8 or 9-9 in the MVC, but I suspect Kirk would vote Geno for COY if we reached that level this year.

[lefty]

I don't think it would qualify as free fall, either, but that's just me. I know many weren't happy with 10-8 or 9-9 in the MVC, but I suspect Kirk would vote Geno for COY if we reached that level this year.

I don't know if he would or not??¦.I think people just though we could/should do better??¦.heck maybe we'll never get there again but I can understand making a change to try and better yourself??¦??¦I'm sure if we don't do much better the next year or two we will have another change

[tornado]

Kirk Wessler has dedicated the last 3 years of his life devoted to hanging everything bad, every loss, every missed basket, every turnover, and even every one of the 9000 empty seats at Carver Arena - on Jim Les..
It is getting to be a little bit of a ridiculous endeavor and strains both believability & credibility...

He has vaguely hinted at recruiting misses and players playing badly but no "D-I virgins"-type attack ripping all the new players every year, or no "Too many jucos" attack when GF has exactly the same number of junior college kids that JL had when it was hailed as bumbled recruiting - even though those juco kids carried BU to the Sweet Sixteen and the current ones have not .... yet....

This is Geno's 4th year, and if he struggles to beat 300RPI teams, doesn't have a player who can even hit 50% on layups, scores only 50 points at home against very bad teams, and cannot fill even 3000 seats in an 11,000 seat arena - then the blame cannot be hung on someone from 2007 or 1996
The fans who were there - the multiple sellouts & crowds of over 10,000 that we might never see again, they know we were NOT in free-fall back then - we were winning, beating decent teams, even winning on the road more than once a year - the facts speak for themselves - you can try but you have to have very foolish and gullible readers if you expect to re-write history

[lefty]

After reading your first two lines T I didn't need to read anything else. You have zero objectivity regarding KW. That's fine Nobody says you have to

I do believe the third line though......just not about KW

[bravetime33]

I am not sure what Kirk defines as "free fall", but to me it implies a terrible team unable to beat anyone of significance.
While I agree that term may apply to last year and this year, to apply it to winning teams from 2007-2008, 2008-2009, or even 2009-2010 is, IMO, inappropriate, and seems to fit with the continued attempts by some to rewrite history to make some feel better about demanding the change that lead to such massive fallout, destroyed a great program, and brought Bradley down to the bottom 25% of Division I.

Here are the actual facts, not just unverified claims:
Year........Record......MVC......RPI....Blowout losses
2007-08....21-17.......9-9.......107......0
2008-09....21-15......10-8......103......1
2009-10....16-15.......9-9.......101......0


So Bradley's RPI actually improved over that 3 year span, they had winning records every year, never had a losing MVC season, and had only 1 blowout loss (loss by 20 or more points)- at Florida 11/16/08. In addition Jim Les-recruited players were named All Conference every year, including 1st teamers. Not exactly "Free fall".

By comparison, these last 3 years, we have compiled 62 losses (most ever in any 3 year stretch under any previous Bradley coach), never come close to a winning record in the MVC, played far softer non-conference schedules, played in 3 straight Thursday play-in games, and lost all 3 (something unprecedented in MVC history), and lost a whopping 14 different games by 20 points or more, and 7 of them were by 30 or more points, including several on our home court. And if we ever get back to having 5 winning seasons in a row, averaging close to 20 wins per year, and RPI's anywhere near 100, I guarantee we'll see Kirk doing cartwheels and proclaiming Bradley a success again, but because it was with a coach he wanted fired, it qualifies as "free fall".

Actually Les lost his first 3 tournament games in 3 seasons with a pretty full cupboard..in fact at the end of season 3 we finished 8th in the conference.
People were hinting about a change in mid season in his 4th year and then the team startedbclicking in Februarty winning 9 out of the last 11 games Patrick Obryant probably saved jim some time (even though patrict was recruited by coach b) and we certainly would not have made that run without him.
I agree with most of this article because i do not think we made significant progress after the run as there was a regression after that and you can site nit to cbi to cba or whatever buy in games you want. After 6 seasons at the helm you would be kinda at . 500 in your league which to me is not where i would want to be
There was clash of EGOS between Les and the Prez
In fact security had to be called twice at the end between the 2 in a meeting this what i heard from a reliable source. So with that going on and program that was medoicre at best a change was made
To me success is how many kids graduate, how many championships are won, how many meaningful games (going for league titiles and not staying out of play ins)exist after February 1 and and how active the program is to the community
Maybe some day we can compete

[BRADLEY FAN 49]

Obvious Reason

Actually Les lost his first 3 tournament games in 3 seasons with a pretty full cupboard..in fact at the end of season 3 we finished 8th in the conference.
People were hinting about a change in mid season in his 4th year and then the team startedbclicking in Februarty winning 9 out of the last 11 games Patrick Obryant probably saved jim some time (even though patrict was recruited by coach b) and we certainly would not have made that run without him.
I agree with most of this article because i do not think we made significant progress after the run as there was a regression after that and you can site nit to cbi to cba or whatever buy in games you want. After 6 seasons at the helm you would be kinda at . 500 in your league which to me is not where i would want to be
There was clash of EGOS between Les and the Prez
In fact security had to be called twice at the end between the 2 in a meeting this what i heard from a reliable source. So with that going on and program that was medoicre at best a change was made
To me success is how many kids graduate, how many championships are won, how many meaningful games (going for league titiles and not staying out of play ins)exist after February 1 and and how active the program is to the community
Maybe some day we can compete

The obvious reason for regression was the sudden unforeseen loss of Patrick Obryant. Even though his pro career wasn't very good he would have been a very good player in the valley. He certainly was very good in the sweet 16 run against some very good players. If we were Louisville our another big name school that lost a player they could have possibly found a replacement with such a short time frame (from March to Oct.) . After that we went to a smaller lineup which I'm sure was not something that had been planned for.

[Da Coach]

Actually Les lost his first 3 tournament games in 3 seasons with a pretty full cupboard..in fact at the end of season 3 we finished 8th in the conference...

Again, we keep bringing up Jim Les and trying to spin past results to make ourselves feel better about the abject failure of the current team.

We can try to parse and spin things, but to try to compare where we were in Jim Les' 4th year with where we are now is a losing proposition any way you want to try.

My quote above is 100% accurate. I said:
...these last 3 years, we have compiled 62 losses (most ever in any 3 year stretch under any previous Bradley coach), never come close to a winning record in the MVC, played far softer non-conference schedules, played in 3 straight Thursday play-in games, and lost all 3 (something unprecedented in MVC history)


Jim Les did not play in a play-in game his first year at Bradley, and he never played in or lost 3 straight play-in games. So despite your attempt, it is 100% true that Geno is the first and only coach in Bradley history (and as far as I can find, in the entire history of the MVC!) to play in play-in games for 3 years in a row and lose a play-in game every year for 3 straight years! And I do not agree with your "full cupboard" argument. If Bradley had such a "full cupboard" in 2002, then why did Molinari lose 20 games? There were no injury issues like there were in 2010-11. BU improved after Jim Les took over, but they regressed under Geno (remember the record-setting 7-25 record in 2012)

[tornado]

...Les lost his first 3 tournament games in 3 seasons with a pretty full cupboard....

so now the rules are 100% different - Kirk Wessler totally ignores the horrific record (62 losses), terrible RPIs, loss of fans, and massive blowout losses in Geno's 1st three seasons because they weren't his players...
but all the losses (49 of them) in JL's first 3 years are ALL purely HIS fault...

time will record that in over 100 years of Bradley basketball - we have never had a 3-4 year stretch as bad as we have had the last 3-4 years...
all the while we keep hearing "it can't possibly get any worse" while it has....
but sooner or later - perhaps if Wichita leaves the MVC - we might do a bit better and then we'll stop this free fall
...we gotta force ourselves to have hope since there may be no change in sight if our Board thinks we're riding a wave of unprecedented success..

[lefty]

I'm not sure why Les(or the term previous coach as some say) has to be brought up in most every thread??¦??¦..

[Da Coach]

I'm not sure why Les(or the term previous coach as some say) has to be brought up in most every thread??¦??¦..

Ask Bravetime33

[lefty]

Ask Bravetime33

I notice you couldn't help yourself on the thread above either

[Buesch N Chips]

I don't really have a problem with the article, but under the previous regime Wessler's article would have been asking things like

"Why weren't we ready to play at the start of the season?"

"Why did it take two horrible losses to emphasize defense and rebounding?"

Geno gets a pass on those, and I prefer the softer, bubble wrap coverage to the biting, personally antagonistic writings of days gone by.

[tornado]

I'm not sure why Les...has to be brought up in most every thread……..

...lefty- it was Kirk Wessler whose blog brought up the "free fall since 2007" as the origin of the current problems
...in fact, I have yet to see any discussion of the current woes of BU basketball or even BU athletics in general without someone trying to hang it all on someone from 2007.