Where are the hypocrites?

[tornado]

now you really got me...what does Cellus have to do with anything?

[Duane82]

now you really got me...what does Cellus have to do with anything?

Stop with the hating please let's look at facts then start debating that's the way it should be son. Here is the roster the year Les took over:
Player Class Pos Ht Summary
Jabbar Battle JR F 6-6 4.6 Pts, 3.2 Reb, 0.8 Ast
Jason Faulknor JR F 6-7 3.8 Pts, 4.0 Reb, 0.6 Ast
Phillip Gilbert JR G 6-3 18.9 Pts, 4.6 Reb, 1.4 Ast
James Gillingham JR G 6-4 15.0 Pts, 4.1 Reb, 3.3 Ast
Danny Granger SO F 6-8 19.2 Pts, 7.9 Reb, 1.1 Ast
Brandyn Heemskerk SO C 7-1 3.3 Pts, 4.3 Reb, 1.0 Ast
Stevan Marcetic FR F 6-9 0.0 Pts, 0.0 Reb, 0.0 Ast
Chris Mroz FR G 5-11 1.0 Pts, 0.5 Reb, 0.8 Ast
Joey Paul FR G 6-3 2.9 Pts, 1.7 Reb, 0.8 Ast
Marcello Robinson JR G 5-10 7.8 Pts, 3.1 Reb, 4.6 Ast
Michael Stewart SR C 6-8 5.2 Pts, 4.4 Reb, 0.3 Ast
Mike Suggs SO G 6-6 8.0 Pts, 4.7 Reb, 0.6 Ast
Ryan Sunley FR G 6-2 0.9 Pts, 0.4 Reb, 0.3 Ast

This is the Roster that Geno took overI'm not a fan of Geno either)
Player Class Pos Ht Summary
Taylor Brown SR F 6-6 14.8 Pts, 6.4 Reb, 1.6 Ast
Jalen Crawford FR G 6-2 2.7 Pts, 1.1 Reb, 0.5 Ast
Jake Eastman JR G 6-5 5.9 Pts, 4.1 Reb, 1.9 Ast
Devon Hodges FR F 6-7 0.0 Pts, 0.4 Reb, 0.1 Ast
Milos Knezevic JR F 6-8 1.0 Pts, 0.7 Reb, 0.0 Ast
Walt Lemon SO G 6-3 12.6 Pts, 3.1 Reb, 2.5 Ast
Jordan Prosser SO F 6-8 7.8 Pts, 6.5 Reb, 0.5 Ast
Shayok M. Shayok FR F 6-8 3.5 Pts, 3.1 Reb, 0.6 Ast
Dyricus Simms-Edwards JR G 6-3 11.5 Pts, 3.8 Reb, 2.9 Ast
Donivine Stewart FR G 6-0 0.4 Pts, 0.4 Reb, 0.3 Ast
Anthony Thompson SR C 6-10 3.0 Pts, 2.5 Reb, 0.1 Ast
Charonn Woods JR G 5-11 0.9 Pts, 0.6 Reb, 0.3 Ast

I think it's a wash what both of them started with if you look at the rosters. Taylor and Danny were about the sae. Walt and Phillip were about equal careers. Then Les had Gillingham and Geno had Simms-Edwards which is a wash. The only one IMHO that I would say Les had that was better in his first year was Cello.(That is who I was confusing for Cellous)

[Buesch N Chips]

Stop with the hating please let's look at facts then start debating that's the way it should be son. Here is the roster the year Les took over:
Player Class Pos Ht Summary
Jabbar Battle JR F 6-6 4.6 Pts, 3.2 Reb, 0.8 Ast
Jason Faulknor JR F 6-7 3.8 Pts, 4.0 Reb, 0.6 Ast
Phillip Gilbert JR G 6-3 18.9 Pts, 4.6 Reb, 1.4 Ast
James Gillingham JR G 6-4 15.0 Pts, 4.1 Reb, 3.3 Ast
Danny Granger SO F 6-8 19.2 Pts, 7.9 Reb, 1.1 Ast
Brandyn Heemskerk SO C 7-1 3.3 Pts, 4.3 Reb, 1.0 Ast
Stevan Marcetic FR F 6-9 0.0 Pts, 0.0 Reb, 0.0 Ast
Chris Mroz FR G 5-11 1.0 Pts, 0.5 Reb, 0.8 Ast
Joey Paul FR G 6-3 2.9 Pts, 1.7 Reb, 0.8 Ast
Marcello Robinson JR G 5-10 7.8 Pts, 3.1 Reb, 4.6 Ast
Michael Stewart SR C 6-8 5.2 Pts, 4.4 Reb, 0.3 Ast
Mike Suggs SO G 6-6 8.0 Pts, 4.7 Reb, 0.6 Ast
Ryan Sunley FR G 6-2 0.9 Pts, 0.4 Reb, 0.3 Ast

This is the Roster that Geno took overI'm not a fan of Geno either)
Player Class Pos Ht Summary
Taylor Brown SR F 6-6 14.8 Pts, 6.4 Reb, 1.6 Ast
Jalen Crawford FR G 6-2 2.7 Pts, 1.1 Reb, 0.5 Ast
Jake Eastman JR G 6-5 5.9 Pts, 4.1 Reb, 1.9 Ast
Devon Hodges FR F 6-7 0.0 Pts, 0.4 Reb, 0.1 Ast
Milos Knezevic JR F 6-8 1.0 Pts, 0.7 Reb, 0.0 Ast
Walt Lemon SO G 6-3 12.6 Pts, 3.1 Reb, 2.5 Ast
Jordan Prosser SO F 6-8 7.8 Pts, 6.5 Reb, 0.5 Ast
Shayok M. Shayok FR F 6-8 3.5 Pts, 3.1 Reb, 0.6 Ast
Dyricus Simms-Edwards JR G 6-3 11.5 Pts, 3.8 Reb, 2.9 Ast
Donivine Stewart FR G 6-0 0.4 Pts, 0.4 Reb, 0.3 Ast
Anthony Thompson SR C 6-10 3.0 Pts, 2.5 Reb, 0.1 Ast
Charonn Woods JR G 5-11 0.9 Pts, 0.6 Reb, 0.3 Ast

I think it's a wash what both of them started with if you look at the rosters. Taylor and Danny were about the sae. Walt and Phillip were about equal careers. Then Les had Gillingham and Geno had Simms-Edwards which is a wash. The only one IMHO that I would say Les had that was better in his first year was Cello.(That is who I was confusing for Cellous)

I agree. The difference in the two rosters is pretty negligible. IMO, slight edge to the Les roster, but not outside the margin of error.

[tornado]

I believe it is a wash but JL nor any media ever spent 3 years whining about a bare cupboard ...

but here's why fans in JL's 3rd or 4th season had a bit more to be optimistic about...

-first - I still don't see what Cellus has to do with this
-and why are you calling me "son" - I might be older than you

-but lastly - regardless of who had the better players - the main difference I see is that at least during his first three seasons - JL was competitive - we were in virtually every single game!

In JL's first 3 years he was 40-49, and suffered only FOUR 20-pt blowout losses and zero 24 or 24+ point losses.
In GF's first 3 years he was 37-62, but ...suffered TWELVE 20-pt blowout losses, eight 24+ point losses, and seven of 30 or more.
All but a few see the difference but unfortunately the admin seems to ignore it all or be listening to those few....
and that's why the attendance is at historic LOW levels and the arena is empty & dead.

[bu fan 9]

Geno has played a lot more cup cakes. Geno has all the new faculties for recruiting.

[Da Coach]

IMO, we should not be wasting time trying to compare which coach was left with what players. If people insist on comparing, and using the previous coach to justify the failures we've seen these past 3 1/2 years, we should be looking at what each coach did in recruiting and building their own set of players in those first 3-4 years.

Many could see that Les was recruiting and building a really talented set of players that would eventually gel into an NCAA Sweet 16 team his 4th year.

In his first 3 seasons, JL was not suffering repeated embarrassing 20 and 30 point blowouts. JL had just 5 such 20 point blowouts (the worst was 23 points) in his first 4 seasons including none in years 3 or 4, and none at home. Geno has already had an amazing 14 (fourteen!) such 20 point blowouts, including 7 blowouts of 30 or more points (including 37 and 39 point shellackings) in just 3 seasons, including 3 on our home floor!

JL was not posting 260+ RPI's like we have seen 2 of the last 3 years. His worst RPI in the first 4 years was 199, and the best was 39). Geno has had RPI's of 266, 191, and 265.

JL was not playing 300+ non-conference SOS's like we have seen the last 2 seasons. The last 2 seasons, the non-conference SOS has been 339 and 302.

And JL did not have any 20 loss seasons, like we have seen 2 of the last 3 years.

JL also did it without the advantage of new, 50-million dollar facilities like we have now.

I could go on with the comparisons if anyone wants more, and I haven't even touched on the massive and painful differences in fundraising, and revenues generated, as well as ticket renewals, sales, and attendance.

But I think most people could see by year 3 or 4 that JL was building a good team, headed for NCAA success, with solid talent and depth, with a lot more 4-year players and a lot less player turnover, and building record financial revenues for the Athletic Department that would eventually lead to the great new facilities which he never had the advantage of using to recruit his players.
It's difficult to see this current team playing in and winning NCAA games any time soon, though we can always hope. Just my opinion.

[Duane82]

I believe it is a wash but JL nor any media ever spent 3 years whining about a bare cupboard ...

but here's why fans in JL's 3rd or 4th season had a bit more to be optimistic about...

-first - I still don't see what Cellus has to do with this
-and why are you calling me "son" - I might be older than you

-but lastly - regardless of who had the better players - the main difference I see is that at least during his first three seasons - JL was competitive - we were in virtually every single game!

In JL's first 3 years he was 40-49, and suffered only FOUR 20-pt blowout losses and zero 24 or 24+ point losses.
In GF's first 3 years he was 37-62, but ...suffered TWELVE 20-pt blowout losses, eight 24+ point losses, and seven of 30 or more.
All but a few see the difference but unfortunately the admin seems to ignore it all or be listening to those few....
and that's why the attendance is at historic LOW levels and the arena is empty & dead.

I thought you'd get a kick out of the son reference :P I agree with you that I think the admins are ignoring the obvious. The problem doesn't just sit with the sports programs it is also with the academics and enrollment decline. Those need to be fixed with a greater urgency. With that being said at the rate the attendance decline is going the team could see their future playing at the Ren Col if time is not spent on cleaning the program up and making it back into an event where people want to attend. This may be my day dreaming but I wish we would've seen Jerrance Howard hired a few years ago. That might have at least keep the attendance intact.

[tornado]

This may be my day dreaming but I wish we would've seen Jerrance Howard

I just wanna win... ya say Jerrance is still waiting for a head coaching job??
I think a lot of people thought about him in 2011 but I hear he was not brought in for an interview.

Hmmm....Jerrance took the job at KU that was open when Joe Dooley left for a midmajor head coaching spot...

[BU212121]

The conference now is a lot weaker. Geno started with better players than Les did.

The 1st half of this statement is correct. The 2nd is grossly off base

[Da Coach]

I can confirm that Jerrance did contact Bradley and was interested in the open job, but at the time he was told Bradley wanted to go with someone who had head coaching experience, and thus he was not among those who were interviewed or given serious consideration.
I can also confirm that Jerrance would be very interested if the Bradley job were to ever become available again.

[tornado]

The 1st half of this statement is correct. The 2nd is grossly off base

tough to compare but the players JL inherited did "resist" playing the style & offense JL wanted - this was widely documented..
I never heard any such similar thing with GF although I did hear some of the players did not always mesh...

[BU212121]

So for the next coach should BU go after a current head coach? Big 10 Assistant? Young with potential? Old to bring back stability and consistency? Or just keep paying Geno to get to play-in games?

[tornado]

I would resist starting any discussion about changing coaches

[TheAsianSensation]

If we're going down the comparison road....I think Les' first 3 years and Geno's first 3 years are a wash...they look similar to me. One could nitpick details here and there but I'm inclined to call it a wash.

Les won his way off the hot seat in the back half of year 4. Geno doesn't need a sweet 16, but he needs some momentum to survive, IMO.

[Da Coach]

The 1st half of this statement is correct. The 2nd is grossly off base

Geno inherited 3 players who were to eventually be awarded with 4 post-season honors-
Taylor Brown was All Conference in 2011-12
Walt Lemon was All Conference in 2012-13
Dyricus Simms-Edwards was the Defensive Player of the Year in 2012-13
Walt Lemon was All Conference in 2013-14
Plus, Will Egolf was the only center in the last 16 years to average double figures.
That is not a bad core of players to inherit.

JL inherited Danny Granger for 1 semester. He left mid-season.
He also inherited Gillingham, Gilbert, and Robinson. They were good players, and Gilbert and Gillingham both were All-MVC their senior years (Gillingham 2nd team, Gilbert Honorable Mention).
By the way, by year 3, JL already had a 1st team All MVC player that he had recruited (Sommerville), plus several more who would eventually become All-MVC.

I would say you could make an argument both ways for which coach inherited the most. If Granger had stayed, perhaps JL would have had the advantage. But since he didn't, IMO Geno inherited more talent and clearly inherited more total scoring, more All-MVC players, plus a Defensive POY. Also, the talent Geno inherited carried him for 3 years, while JL did not inherit anyone who was a factor into his 3rd season, and had stocked his team by year 3 and 4 with multiple All-MVC players of his own, while we have yet to see that happen with any of Geno's recruits.