Bradley tennis

[Buesch N Chips]

DC, can you elaborate on these two comments taken together?

If not for Jim Les' players leading the teams the last 3 years, things would have been far worse

And you don't think it is just a little ridiculous to blame our failures on what players the previous coach left behind

[Da Coach]

I am not sure what you want? It's clear that Geno has relied heavily on leftover players, who have been the top producers of the last 3 years' teams. But we have failed to supplement them with enough talent, or even a D1 caliber point guard, to lift the team out of the bottom of the league.

Where do you think the team would have finished, and what would their records have been if not for the leftover players?
If the cupboard had truly been bare, as some have repeatedly claimed, we would have been playing these lineups:
2011-12: Crawford (Fr.), Shayok Shayok (Fr.), Hodges (Fr.), Wells (Fr.), and whoever else could have been signed to fill the roster
2012-13: Bell (Fr.), Crawford (So.), Alwan (Jr.), Harris (Fr.), Pickett (Jr.), Shayok (So.), Gavin (So.), Wells (RFr.)
2013-14: Bell (So.), Fields (So.), Barnes (Jr.), Alwan (Sr.), Harris (So.), Swopshire (Fr.), Pickett (Sr.), Taylor (Fr.), Grier (So.), Zecevic (Fr.), Blake (Jr.), Wells (RSo.)

I doubt we would have seen more than 5 wins a year without those players that were inherited.

[bravetime33]

I am not sure what you want? It's clear that Geno has relied heavily on leftover players, who have been the top producers of the last 3 years' teams. But we have failed to supplement them with enough talent, or even a D1 caliber point guard, to lift the team out of the bottom of the league.

Where do you think the team would have finished, and what would their records have been if not for the leftover players?
If the cupboard had truly been bare, as some have repeatedly claimed, we would have been playing these lineups:
2011-12: Crawford (Fr.), Shayok Shayok (Fr.), Hodges (Fr.), Wells (Fr.), and whoever else could have been signed to fill the roster
2012-13: Bell (Fr.), Crawford (So.), Alwan (Jr.), Harris (Fr.), Pickett (Jr.), Shayok (So.), Gavin (So.), Wells (RFr.)
2013-14: Bell (So.), Fields (So.), Barnes (Jr.), Alwan (Sr.), Harris (So.), Swopshire (Fr.), Pickett (Sr.), Taylor (Fr.), Grier (So.), Zecevic (Fr.), Blake (Jr.), Wells (RSo.)

I doubt we would have seen more than 5 wins a year without those players that were inherited.

Could use the same argument against Les his first 2 years actually he inherited a much stronger bunch than Geno. And, by the way, les did not win a conference tournament game his first three seasons also

[Da Coach]

Could use the same argument against Les his first 2 years actually he inherited a much stronger bunch than Geno. And, by the way, les did not win a conference tournament game his first three seasons also

Again, what does this have to do with Jim Les? It continues to be the JL-detractors who are the only ones who keep bringing up his name as some kind of rationalization and pacifier for these last three years of failure.
The reason he was fired (allegedly, though we all know the real reason) is because he had not won enough. Promises were made that we'd be better. Instead, things have been much worse.

But then keep bringing up Jim Les if it makes you feel better, but most fans aren't buying into your excuses.

3 straight Thursday night losses- unprecedented, and not Jim Les' fault.

[wily coyote]

I am not sure what you want? It's clear that Geno has relied heavily on leftover players, who have been the top producers of the last 3 years' teams. But we have failed to supplement them with enough talent, or even a D1 caliber point guard, to lift the team out of the bottom of the league.

Where do you think the team would have finished, and what would their records have been if not for the leftover players?
If the cupboard had truly been bare, as some have repeatedly claimed, we would have been playing these lineups:
2011-12: Crawford (Fr.), Shayok Shayok (Fr.), Hodges (Fr.), Wells (Fr.), and whoever else could have been signed to fill the roster
2012-13: Bell (Fr.), Crawford (So.), Alwan (Jr.), Harris (Fr.), Pickett (Jr.), Shayok (So.), Gavin (So.), Wells (RFr.)
2013-14: Bell (So.), Fields (So.), Barnes (Jr.), Alwan (Sr.), Harris (So.), Swopshire (Fr.), Pickett (Sr.), Taylor (Fr.), Grier (So.), Zecevic (Fr.), Blake (Jr.), Wells (RSo.)

I doubt we would have seen more than 5 wins a year without those players that were inherited.

That's pretty doggone scary isn't it. I don't think anyone will argue that what Geno has brought in is gonna challenge for any league titles but you just don't seem to get that the left overs were just that left overs. We were never going to challenge anyone with that group. It's as simple as that. The recruiting by JL and Geno have left a lot to be desire and hopefully this class gets us back to respectability.

[Buesch N Chips]

I am not sure what you want? It's clear that Geno has relied heavily on leftover players, who have been the top producers of the last 3 years' teams. But we have failed to supplement them with enough talent, or even a D1 caliber point guard, to lift the team out of the bottom of the league.

Where do you think the team would have finished, and what would their records have been if not for the leftover players?
If the cupboard had truly been bare, as some have repeatedly claimed, we would have been playing these lineups:
2011-12: Crawford (Fr.), Shayok Shayok (Fr.), Hodges (Fr.), Wells (Fr.), and whoever else could have been signed to fill the roster
2012-13: Bell (Fr.), Crawford (So.), Alwan (Jr.), Harris (Fr.), Pickett (Jr.), Shayok (So.), Gavin (So.), Wells (RFr.)
2013-14: Bell (So.), Fields (So.), Barnes (Jr.), Alwan (Sr.), Harris (So.), Swopshire (Fr.), Pickett (Sr.), Taylor (Fr.), Grier (So.), Zecevic (Fr.), Blake (Jr.), Wells (RSo.)

I doubt we would have seen more than 5 wins a year without those players that were inherited.

So, you want to give credit to those Les recruits, but then also say people should quit blaming them?

If you're going to take credit for the sunshine, you better be ready to take the blame for the rain.

Same goes for those fans who want to dump on them for everything bad, but not acknowledge the good things they did.

In my opinion, those guys were a glue that held things together, but they were not, as someone said, guys who were going to accelerate the program to another level. They did good things as program guys, but that's all they were.

It also depends on who Geno would have replaced them with, had they left. Would those new guys have been better? No one knows.

[Da Coach]

That's pretty doggone scary isn't it. I don't think anyone will argue that what Geno has brought in is gonna challenge for any league titles but you just don't seem to get that the left overs were just that left overs. We were never going to challenge anyone with that group. It's as simple as that. The recruiting by JL and Geno have left a lot to be desire and hopefully this class gets us back to respectability.

Wily, it's now into the 4th year, and we are still seeing this irrational blaming of Jim Les by media and a handful of message board posters. I want to see Bradley win as much as anyone, but sooner or later, those who want to believe it's all JL's fault, will have to face reality.

[Da Coach]

Could use the same argument against Les his first 2 years actually he inherited a much stronger bunch than Geno. And, by the way, les did not win a conference tournament game his first three seasons also

Wow, you seem to be making my case for me- you claim the leftovers of JL never were any good because they could never finish higher than 4th, but then you claim the JL inherited much better players!
Do you realize that those "much stronger bunch" never had a winning record and never finished higher than 6th (2001-2004)?

And Buesch- all I'm saying is that the Les players have carried this team for the last 3 years. Maybe they weren't any good, fans ca make that judgement themselves (though I have documented that there were multiple All MVC players), but they were the best players on the team these last 3 years. That's all I'm saying. If people want someone to blame for the lack of success, they need to look elsewhere.

[Buesch N Chips]

And Buesch- all I'm saying is that the Les players have carried this team for the last 3 years.

In a general sense I don't disagree. Theoretically they should have been the best, being the most experienced players. It was their job to be a bridge from old to new. Now the old is gone. We will see what next season brings.

[bravetime33]

Wow, you seem to be making my case for me- you claim the leftovers of JL never were any good because they could never finish higher than 4th, but then you claim the JL inherited much better players!
Do you realize that those "much stronger bunch" never had a winning record and never finished higher than 6th (2001-2004)?

And Buesch- all I'm saying is that the Les players have carried this team for the last 3 years. Maybe they weren't any good, fans ca make that judgement themselves (though I have documented that there were multiple All MVC players), but they were the best players on the team these last 3 years. That's all I'm saying. If people want someone to blame for the lack of success, they need to look elsewhere.

Must have been the coaching,then, same as Geno
The point is that both coaches in their early years struggled inheriting previous coaches recruits...trying to meld that in your style and personality is difficult at best....so do compare Geno's first three years to Les last years is not fair

[wily coyote]

Wily, it's now into the 4th year, and we are still seeing this irrational blaming of Jim Les by media and a handful of message board posters. I want to see Bradley win as much as anyone, but sooner or later, those who want to believe it's all JL's fault, will have to face reality.

DC, you are again stretching the truth here. I don't recall ANYONE on this board saying this mess "is all JL's fault." If I'm wrong please show me a post where someone put 100% blame on Jim. Don't think that post exists but could be wrong.

[Da Coach]

DC, you are again stretching the truth here. I don't recall ANYONE on this board saying this mess "is all JL's fault." If I'm wrong please show me a post where someone put 100% blame on Jim. Don't think that post exists but could be wrong.

I don't even read other message boards, and yet I have been made aware of numerous examples of excuse-making and Jim Les being blamed. I am sorry you are not aware of them, but I don't have the time to search them out, and I don't have the time to waste. Most fans know it is still happening. But even you have slammed players like TB and WL and called them selfish (something that is done with regularity on another board), and implied they were the reason we couldn't win, and that we'll be better without them. That is exactly what was said about Will, DSE, TB, and others who left earlier, but instead of getting better, we only got worse. So if anything, I believe that proves those critics were wrong, and those players were better than they thought. I also predict we'll miss Walt a lot more than you think.

[wily coyote]

I don't even read other message boards, and yet I have been made aware of numerous examples of excuse-making and Jim Les being blamed. I am sorry you are not aware of them, but I don't have the time to search them out, and I don't have the time to waste. Most fans know it is still happening. But even you have slammed players like TB and WL and called them selfish (something that is done with regularity on another board), and implied they were the reason we couldn't win, and that we'll be better without them. That is exactly what was said about Will, DSE, TB, and others who left earlier, but instead of getting better, we only got worse. So if anything, I believe that proves those critics were wrong, and those players were better than they thought. I also predict we'll miss Walt a lot more than you think.

It is probably a real good thing you don't read one particular board. I for one have blamed this mess on Jim but certainly not 100%. I have said numerous times I have not been happy with Geno's recruiting. Jim's recruiting after the Sweet sixteen run left a lot to be desired and that's when he should have made hay but didn't. Yes I have called out TB and WL for their selfish play and if you haven't seen it than you are either sitting to close to the floor or sitting to far. Those that know me know I don't sugar coat anything. Not my nature. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck ,it must be a duck. There are a few on here that will agree with your perception of TB & WL but there are more people who would agree with me. If you enjoyed TB's last year and Walts last two you enjoy a much different brand of basketball than I do. I will again tell you the people Geno has brought in probably are not as good as what Jim left Geno but what I will continue to tell you is that Will ,DSE, TB, and others were never good enough to get us above 4th place or play meaningful games in FEB. Not sure how you can continue to dispute that fact.

[Da Coach]

...Not sure how you can continue to dispute that fact.

Where have I ever disputed that? All I've said is they were better than the JL-detractors like to believe. They have carried the last 3 teams. And you think "selfish play" by TB and WL are the reason the last 3 seasons have set numerous records for futility and losing, then it's not me who can't see the forest for the trees.

[tornado]

...I have said numerous times I have not been happy with Geno's recruiting...

For those who still complain about the cupboard being empty - here are some raw facts...
I challenge anyone to find even a single DI head coach hired after his predecessor was fired - who relied this much over his first three years at any school in the nation, on the players who were left over.

Here's the production contributed by GF's scholarship players
2011-12 - 984 out of 6401 minutes (15.4%), 192 out of 1955 points (9.8%)
2012-13 - 1983 out of 7050 minutes (28.1%), 255 out of 2371 points (10.8%)
2013-14 - 4656 out of 6400 minutes (72.7%), 1341 out of 2036 points (65.9%)

total percentage of production over the last three years - 38.4% of the minutes played, but only 28.1% of the scoring

so Geno's own scholarship recruits have provided only about 30% of the production over the past 3 seasons...
- had Geno run everyone out and tried to rebuild with all his own players - I think we'd have seen a disaster of unprecedented proportions.
I can't help but wonder - even though Bradley has only won 37 games over the past three years (against historically weak scheduling) -
how many do you think we'd have won had GF run out everyone and tried to rely on his own players -- maybe fewer than 10?