Bradley tennis

[Da Coach]

Quality wins over Austin Peay, Oakland, Pacific, UIC, Florida Gulf Coast, Richmond, East Tennessee State, SEMO, SIUE, and Loyola helped get us to 20 wins in 2009. ....

Here we go again, just as I predicted. The Jim Les haters want to try anything to detract and diminish from Bradley's past success. If that is how you want to remember that year, or any year, fell free.
But the way I recall, the 2008-09 team won 21 games. The SOS for that 2008-09 team was 90, compared with last year's team that won just 12 games, despite a woeful SOS last year of 191, and a non-conference SOS of 302 (higher than any year under JL).
That team's RPI was 103- last year it was 265, and the average of these last 3 years is over 240.
They also won 5 MVC conference games that season (we have only won 2 in the last 3 years combined, and one of those was at newby Loyola!) including games at Creighton, and at Wichita State, which has not been done since.
Wake me up when we win 20+ games again, or have a SOS under 100, or start winning again against quality teams on the road.

[Tulsa Brave]

Here we go again, just as I predicted. The Jim Les haters want to try anything to detract and diminish from Bradley's past success. If that is how you want to remember that year, or any year, fell free.
But the way I recall, the 2008-09 team won 21 games. The SOS for that 2008-09 team was 90, compared with last year's team that won just 12 games, despite a woeful SOS last year of 191, and a non-conference SOS of 302 (higher than any year under JL).
That team's RPI was 103- last year it was 265, and the average of these last 3 years is over 240.
They also won 5 MVC conference games that season (we have only won 2 in the last 3 years combined, and one of those was at newby Loyola!) including games at Creighton, and at Wichita State, which has not been done since.
Wake me up when we win 20+ games again, or have a SOS under 100, or start winning again against quality teams on the road.

Who said I hated Jim Les? I was not satisfied with that 1-10 top 100 record and the loss to UMKC. Obviously some were perfectly content with those kinds of results. I haven't been satisfied since then either. We also did not beat Creighton that year home or away. We nipped a pretty poor Wichita team by 2 at their place though. The Shockers really started to turn things around the following year. I expect the same thing to happen with the Braves shortly.

[Da Coach]

Who said I hated Jim Les? I was not satisfied with that 1-10 top 100 record and the loss to UMKC. Obviously some were perfectly content with those kinds of results. I haven't been satisfied since then either. We also did not beat Creighton that year home or away. We nipped a pretty poor Wichita team by 2 at their place though. The Shockers really started to turn things around the following year. I expect the same thing to happen with the Braves shortly.

Excuse me for the mistake about Creighton, but we did beat Wichita State twice. But we had 2 wins over top 100 teams (ISU and Evansville), equal to the total such wins in the last 3 years combined. They also had 13 wins over teams with RPI under 200, while last year we had just 3.
If you weren't satisfied with a 21 win season, and an RPI of 103, these last 3 seasons must have been agonizing for you.

[Tulsa Brave]

Excuse me for the mistake about Creighton, but we did beat Wichita State twice. But we had 2 wins over top 100 teams (ISU and Evansville), equal to the total such wins in the last 3 years combined. They also had 13 wins over teams with RPI under 200, while last year we had just 3.
If you weren't satisfied with a 21 win season, and an RPI of 103, these last 3 seasons must have been agonizing for you.

Most of this century has been agonizing, save for about a 6 week stretch in 2006.

[tornado]

But we have gone from competitive to bad to worse to near-laughingstock and ............

if you want to throw out ALL the subjective - then we still have overwhelming evidence
of our recent futility over the past 5-6 years since the house-cleaning began with the firing of KK
and the subsequent dismissal of numerous other coaches, assistants and department personnel.

the empty arena, the historically low attendances, lack of anything resembling a sellout, the sheer volume of enormous blowout losses even at home,
the bad RPI and terrible SOS, the unparalleled streak of Thursday night appearances, the huge decline of Athletic Dept. revenues
matched with the disturbing increase in Athletic Dept. costs & spending that is creating substantial turmoil on campus...
and I could go on but suffice to say that those who wanted the housecleaning and the fans hated the 4th place finishes and the NCAA & NIT appearances must be really happy now...
but a tremendous number of long time, strongly supportive fans are gone forever. Fact.

Here's where we were just 5-6 years ago - record attendance and record revenues- LINK - LINK - LINK - LINK - LINK
Now it's home crowds of 5-6000 with plenty of empties, ISU game with almost 5000 empty seats, record low revenues and red ink, coaching positions that we even have a hard time getting qualified candidates to apply for, not to mention the Thursdays, 20-30-40 pt blowout losses - more in the past three seasons than in the prior 2 decades combined, record player & personnel turnover and revolving door, etc. (even more "issues" and suspensions this past 3 seasons than in the prior decade combined) - sure there are some bright spots and light at the end of the tunnel - and a great base of rabid fans are still here despite the losses - but all this fallout is a result of a housecleaning that hasn't paid off yet. Hopefully some day it will...

[Da Coach]

Yeah, hard to believe how far we've fallen- it was just a few years ago-
Coming off record attendance (2009-10)-

http://www.bradleybraves.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=3400&ATCLID=187398

And a string of years with record-setting revenues every year (2008-09)-

http://www.bradleybraves.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=3400&ATCLID=1597812&SPID=1510&SPSID=19447

and there are still some who think there hasn't been fallout?

[tornado]

that season 08-09, the total home attendance was 164,000 and was 182,400 the year before, and over 165,000 the year before that (and not many empties)!
It was 118,000 last year and 112,000 (with plenty of empties) this year...

[wily coyote]

Here we go again, just as I predicted. The Jim Les haters want to try anything to detract and diminish from Bradley's past success. If that is how you want to remember that year, or any year, fell free.
But the way I recall, the 2008-09 team won 21 games. The SOS for that 2008-09 team was 90, compared with last year's team that won just 12 games, despite a woeful SOS last year of 191, and a non-conference SOS of 302 (higher than any year under JL).
That team's RPI was 103- last year it was 265, and the average of these last 3 years is over 240.
They also won 5 MVC conference games that season (we have only won 2 in the last 3 years combined, and one of those was at newby Loyola!) including games at Creighton, and at Wichita State, which has not been done since.
Wake me up when we win 20+ games again, or have a SOS under 100, or start winning again against quality teams on the road.

DC , I'd think you'd get tired of lumping everyone together as JL haters. I've never been a JL hater but It was time for him to go. If in your mind that makes me a JL hater than I guess it is what it is but it is far from the truth. Jim was always very respectful to me, as I was to him. It was painfully clear to many that coaching experience should have been a must in selecting a coach when Mo was let go. Just for the record , I also was friends with Coach Mo and was sadden to see him go but in reality it was probably time for him to go too. The worst part about his departure was the timing. One of the best recruiting classes we've had in a long time. What few of us regular posters left on here will never change your mind as you will NEVER change ours. Am I happy with the last 3 years, of course not but, now that GF has all his own recruits with the exception of one ,we'll need to see some major improvement. I think we will but time will tell real soon. Hope the clock isn't ticking but it probably is. Winning will change everything including putting butts in the seats.

[TheAsianSensation]

Just because we've been pathetic the last 3 years (and don't kid yourself, it's been pathetic) doesn't mean that 2008 and 2009 were the golden years or anything like it. Those were not good years. They weren't bad, either of course. They were mediocre.

Those were 20 win seasons. They were mediocre. You just can't ignore the context.

2006: 22 wins
2007: 22 wins
2008: 21 wins
2009: 21 wins

There is no one who can argue with a straight face that '08 and '09 were juuuust behind '06 and '07 in terms of quality.

Anything that happened in the CBI and CIT was nice, but irrelevant in the big scheme. However, that said, people who think we were some awful team that was doomed after '07 is exaggerating too. It's not like we immediately became awful. Now '10 and '11, that's when we were awful. That's when the real fallout happened.

In the end, both sides need to shut up about the 20 win seasons in '08 and '09. Both sides want to use it to validate their side of the argument when the tournaments themselves were empty in value itself.

[Da Coach]

They were winning seasons. I never claimed they were on par with the 2006 season, or equal to Duke or North Carolina-type success. They drew fans and set records for financial support. That is undeniable, it's right there on Bradley's own website-

http://www.bradleybraves.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=3400&ATCLID=187398

http://www.bradleybraves.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=3400&ATCLID=1597812&SPID=1510&SPSID=19447

If you want to recall those years as mediocre, that's fine. That is anyone's priviledge. But they were winning seasons, over 20 wins, and RPI's that fans would die for these last 3 years.
Like most fans, I enjoyed those years a heck of a lot more than these last 3. If it was time for a change, then so be it. But revisionists who want us to think we are better off now aren't fooling anyone.

If you want objective facts, here they are, as recently as 2010, Bradley's RPI had been better than 110 for 5 straight seasons- That is respectable. It is in the upper 1/3 of all D1 schools, and the top 25% of all Midmajors.
IMO, that is not mediocre, but you can make that judgement for yourself.
Season...RPI
2004- 166
2005- 142
2006- 39
2007- 38
2008- 107
2009- 103
2010- 101
2011- 227
2012- 266
2013- 191
2014- 265

Where we have languished since the overhaul is in the lower 30% of all D1 schools, and couple that with huge drops in attendance, drops in season tickets sold, and drops in donations, and most people would see that as a failure.
I want to see success as much as anyone, and I believe the 2014 recruiting class is a good start finally, but facts are facts. Prior to the change Bradley was a respectable, flourishing program, not a laughingstock.

[Buesch N Chips]

DC , I'd think you'd get tired of lumping everyone together as JL haters. I've never been a JL hater but It was time for him to go. If in your mind that makes me a JL hater than I guess it is what it is but it is far from the truth. Jim was always very respectful to me, as I was to him. It was painfully clear to many that coaching experience should have been a must in selecting a coach when Mo was let go. Just for the record , I also was friends with Coach Mo and was sadden to see him go but in reality it was probably time for him to go too. The worst part about his departure was the timing. One of the best recruiting classes we've had in a long time. What few of us regular posters left on here will never change your mind as you will NEVER change ours. Am I happy with the last 3 years, of course not but, now that GF has all his own recruits with the exception of one ,we'll need to see some major improvement. I think we will but time will tell real soon. Hope the clock isn't ticking but it probably is. Winning will change everything including putting butts in the seats.

Amen. I defended JL to the end but in reality he wasn't going to get better here with his frosty relationships with the media and the administration, and his poor staff. He was becoming a man without a country. He brought things to the table that were very positive, but his reign had run its course. The timing was bad, however. He probably should have been fired a year earlier.

To say that anyone who doesn't puff up his record and continue to beat the Les Good/Ford Bad drum, to say that they are a hater is ridiculous and pouty. Were there people that hated him? Yes. They are now mostly gone from here. And because people hated him, the prediction that criticism would continue isn't very impressive. I could make predictions about what I expect to find on this board in the future and I bet I would predict right.

And to the point of Coach Ford, even if things do not work out for him here, that will not change the fact that JL should have been let go, in my opinion. JL's friends will surely disagree with that, as they should.

[egib52]

I thought this thread was about BU Tennis, and was wondering why it was under basketball. Now I know.

[TheAsianSensation]

They were winning seasons. I never claimed they were on par with the 2006 season, or equal to Duke or North Carolina-type success. They drew fans and set records for financial support. That is undeniable, it's right there on Bradley's own website-

http://www.bradleybraves.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=3400&ATCLID=187398

http://www.bradleybraves.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=3400&ATCLID=1597812&SPID=1510&SPSID=19447

If you want to recall those years as mediocre, that's fine. That is anyone's priviledge. But they were winning seasons, over 20 wins, and RPI's that fans would die for these last 3 years.
Like most fans, I enjoyed those years a heck of a lot more than these last 3. If it was time for a change, then so be it. But revisionists who want us to think we are better off now aren't fooling anyone.

You seem to keep wanting to compare the last 3 years to the latter half of the Les era. That's fine, but you're missing the point everyone else is trying to make. Just because the second half of the Les era is better than the Geno era so far doesn't mean that the Les era is the gold standard. The goal isn't to get back to the level Les had the program at - it's to exceed what he did.

Every time someone seems to want to comment about how good or bad Les' tenure was, you have to compare it to this era. Why is that? Why can't we just have opinions on that era based on what happened during the era?

Prior to the change Bradley was a respectable, flourishing program, not a laughingstock.

Respectable program, yes. Flourishing, no. One short peak (admittedly a great peak) does not make a program flourishing.

[BU Bill]

Postseason awards banquets

I recall almost every season with good memories, but there haven't been many recently. I can see why the fan following is diminishing.
One thing I do notice now that is now different from all the years I've followed Bradley basketball is that the administration seems to have done away with the postseason basketball awards banquet. I can remember every year, even losing years, there would be 500 or more fans crowded into the 2nd floor banquet room at the student center to honor the seniors and team leaders and others.
Why did this AD do away with this highly successful event that was a tradition on campus since the 1950s?

[Da Coach]

You seem to keep wanting to compare the last 3 years to the latter half of the Les era. ...

I didn't start this, and I never said those years were some kind of "gold standard". Now you are fabricating words and putting words in my mouth that are not even close to what I have said.
I am merely refuting the oft stated phrase by detractors of the previous era that those years were terrible, or at best mediocre. They were better than that.

Respectable program, yes. Flourishing, no. One short peak (admittedly a great peak) does not make a program flourishing.

Flourishing was in reference to the abundant financial revenues pouring into the program. By Bradley's own reports, revenues were at all-time highs. Bradley, in many ways, was the envy of many mid-major programs. That is a thing of the past.