Walt Lemon career scoring numbers

[Da Coach]

I thought that Walt's accomplishments deserved a separate thread so we can follow where he ends up on the Bradley All-Time scoring list and the MVC All-Time scoring list

Walt's career point total is now 1,659, with at least 3 more games to go, which ranks #10 on the all-time Bradley scoring list:

POINTS
1. 3008 Hersey Hawkins 1984-88
2. 2341 Mitchell Anderson 1978-82
3. 2064 Roger Phegley 1974-78
4. 1975 Chet Walker 1959-62
5. 1822 Paul Unruh 1946-50
6. 1763 Joe Allen 1965068
7. 1714 Voise Winters 1981-85
8. 1689 Phillip Gilbert 2000-04
9. 1683 Anthony Parker 1993-97
10. 1659 Walt Lemon 2010-2014
11. 1621 Andrew Warren 2006-11

Walt also is now among the Top 50 All Time MVC career scorers.

Here is the list of top MVC scorers before this season- Walt's 1659 points is now #49 on the list between Red Murrel and Ron Bonham, and he has a chance to move inside the Top 40.

[saluki762]

Amazing where McDermott is on that list with only 3 years in the Valley. He is at 2917 now, 10th all time in NCAA history. Would have liked to see a 4th Valley season for him.

[Da Coach]

Amazing where McDermott is on that list with only 3 years in the Valley. He is at 2917 now, 10th all time in NCAA history. Would have liked to see a 4th Valley season for him.

Yes, there is a good chance he will finish well above 3000 points for his career. But for now, Hersey Hawkins' record of 3,008 is safe. For the record, hersey only played his final 2 seasons with the 3-point line, so he, as well as every other player who came before 1986, would likely have racked up even higher numbers.

[tornado]

Doug McDermott has 266 made 3-pointers in his career thus far - and not to take anything away from Doug's accomplishments, but most of the top players on that list would have gotten only TWO POINTS from those shots...thus guys like Hersey, Oscar Robertson, Larry Bird - in fact all of the Top TEN except McDermott - would have had even more points had they had the 3-point shot available to them for the years they played in college.

[Da Coach]

Even the shot clock, introduced by the NCAA in 1985 as a 45 second clock and shortened to 35 seconds in 1993, sped up the game significantly, increased the number of possessions, and significantly increased scoring. The players who played after the shot clock also benefited from the increased number of shots it provided them.

[amckillip]

FWIW Hersey Hawkins had 118 3 pt baskets. Even if you take away a point for every 1 of Doug McD's 3pt baskets it would look like this:

Doug McD: 2917-266 = 2651
Hersey: 3008 - 118 = 2890

There is still some chance (though not likely), that after being '3 pt adjusted' Doug would pass Hersey on the 'adjusted' scoring list, and one could argue that if the 3-pt shot wasn't worth an extra point Doug would be taking higher percentage shots, though that impact is impossible to predict. Either way, I think the impact of the 3 pt shot is often overstated on college career scoring numbers - the bigger impact is those that weren't allowed to play as freshman i.e. Pistol Pete, etc.

[Da Coach]

Walt Lemon's 18 points tonight against Wichita State brings his career total to 1,677 points. He remains 10th on the all-time Bradley scoring list, but is only 5 points behind #9 Anthony Parker, and 12 points behind #8 Phillip Gilbert-

POINTS
1. 3008 Hersey Hawkins 1984-88
2. 2341 Mitchell Anderson 1978-82
3. 2064 Roger Phegley 1974-78
4. 1975 Chet Walker 1959-62
5. 1822 Paul Unruh 1946-50
6. 1763 Joe Allen 1965068
7. 1714 Voise Winters 1981-85
8. 1689 Phillip Gilbert 2000-04
9. 1683 Anthony Parker 1993-97
10. 1677 Walt Lemon 2010-2014
11. 1621 Andrew Warren 2006-11

The 1,677 points lifts Walt into a tie with Blake Ahearn for 45th place on the MVC All-Time scoring list.

[wily coyote]

Walt Lemon's 18 points tonight against Wichita State brings his career total to 1,677 points. He remains 10th on the all-time Bradley scoring list, but is only 5 points behind #9 Anthony Parker, and 12 points behind #8 Phillip Gilbert-

POINTS
1. 3008 Hersey Hawkins 1984-88
2. 2341 Mitchell Anderson 1978-82
3. 2064 Roger Phegley 1974-78
4. 1975 Chet Walker 1959-62
5. 1822 Paul Unruh 1946-50
6. 1763 Joe Allen 1965068
7. 1714 Voise Winters 1981-85
8. 1689 Phillip Gilbert 2000-04
9. 1683 Anthony Parker 1993-97
10. 1677 Walt Lemon 2010-2014
11. 1621 Andrew Warren 2006-11

The 1,677 points lifts Walt into a tie with Blake Ahearn for 45th place on the MVC All-Time scoring list.

Don't question Walt's effort to score. 1,677 points in a career is impressive along with the people he has passed . BUT several people on here try to make it appear more than what I see it as. For instance it would be very interesting to compare how many shots it took each of these people to achieve their totals. What was their shot percentage? Walt was not a great 3 point shooter but some on that list played before the 3 point shot came into being, including some he has passed. I know there is no records kept on forced shots taken but IMO Walt would be near the top of such list. I've been watching BU basketball since the mid 50's and unless my memory is failing me, I can't think of any player in BU history on that list that has been more difficult to watch than Walt. Yes I know we will miss his scoring and some of you will complain we have no scoring coming back and you are right but, lets wait until we see who shows up on campus this fall. ISU red is living proof you don't have to have a lot of returning scorers back to be improved. Lets hope Geno can do the same here. If he can't his seat probably will be pretty warm.

[Da Coach]

.... ISU red is living proof you don't have to have a lot of returning scorers back to be improved. Lets hope Geno can do the same here. If he can't his seat probably will be pretty warm.

All good points. And I agree with the part I quoted. I'll again mention the Bradley teams between 1978-79 and 1979-80. Dick Versace rebuilt a last place team (1979) into a 21-10 team that won the MVC and played in the NCAA tournament. There are numerous other examples of fast turnarounds, but we will need more than what we see at the present to accomplish a turnaround next season.

[wily coyote]

All good points. And I agree with the part I quoted. I'll again mention the Bradley teams between 1978-79 and 1979-80. Dick Versace rebuilt a last place team (1979) into a 21-10 team that won the MVC and played in the NCAA tournament. There are numerous other examples of fast turnarounds, but we will need more than what we see at the present to accomplish a turnaround next season.

Couldn't agree more. We need a lot more than what we have coming back and signed fro next year.

[tornado]

Doug McDermott, DJ Balentine, Marshall Henderson, Jabari Parker, & Rayvonte Rice all take the most shots on their respective teams, each literally by a country mile!
It would be hard to make the argument they are hurting their teams - so I am puzzled why when it happens here "some" start saying Walt is the problem...
Oddly - the very people who claim Walt is the problem and is hurting the team - also seem to be the very ones who claim GF is such a great coach..
and yet plays the guy 40 minutes per game and letting him take all those shots. So which is it - ?
I think we will see the facts clearer next year - and we will see he is not the problem....

[mexicobufan]

1 - Hawkins 92 wins
2 - Anderson 76 wins
3 - Phegley 50 wins
4 - Walker 57 wins in 3 years
5 - Unruh couldnt find
6 - Allen couldnt find
7 - Winters -74 wins
8 - Gilbert - 57 wins
9 - Parker - 80 wins
10 -Lemon - 49 wins

I wish Walt would of had a chance to play on some better teams. He didnt get to experience winning very often in his 4 years.

[wily coyote]

Doug McDermott, DJ Balentine, Marshall Henderson, Jabari Parker, & Rayvonte Rice all take the most shots on their respective teams, each literally by a country mile!
It would be hard to make the argument they are hurting their teams - so I am puzzled why when it happens here "some" start saying Walt is the problem...
Oddly - the very people who claim Walt is the problem and is hurting the team - also seem to be the very ones who claim GF is such a great coach..
and yet plays the guy 40 minutes per game and letting him take all those shots. So which is it - ?
I think we will see the facts clearer next year - and we will see he is not the problem....

What in the h-ll have you been watching this year? No one is arguing Walt isn't our most talented player but I think it's pretty clear to most of us how much he hurts our team. I guess I've also missed where there are so many people claiming Geno to be a great coach. I do however think most of us would like to see him succeed , maybe not all of us but most of us. It's pretty clear which side of the fence we're on.

[tornado]

Walt hurts the team no more than someone who tries to steal home but gets thrown out .. or someone who throws 20 incomplete passes to receivers who keep dropping the ball....
...I agree he has good games and bad games - who doesn't - but he's only doing what he has to do given the job that's been laid in his lap and what he's told to do by his coach & the complete lack of scoring ability on this team.

Examine this:

2011-12 61.1 ppg, 40.1% FG%, 81/102 A/T
2012-13 67.7 ppg, 43.7% FG%, 133/129 A/T
2013-14 63.3 ppg, 41.5% FG%, 115/108 A/T

I think what it shows is that in the three seasons Walt has been asked to play PG - clearly his assists and turnovers kinda parallel the whole team's ability (or actually inability) to shoot and score.
I believe the "eye test" also confirms - Walt has simply been forced to play in a next-to-impossible situation where he's the point guard on 3 teams that were not good at scoring or doing much with the ball once it was placed in their hands....

If we had even one other reliable scorer recruited in the past 3 years - then there wouldn't have been such a burden on Walt and his numbers wouldn't look so bad - Walt did was he had to do and what he was asked to do.
He's essentially the poster child for why the MVC PLAYER OF THE YEAR AWARD never gets handed to anyone from the bottom of the league.

[wily coyote]

Walt hurts the team no more than someone who tries to steal home but gets thrown out .. or someone who throws 20 incomplete passes to receivers who keep dropping the ball....
...I agree he has good games and bad games - who doesn't - but he's only doing what he has to do given the job that's been laid in his lap and what he's told to do by his coach & the complete lack of scoring ability on this team.

Examine this:

2011-12 61.1 ppg, 40.1% FG%, 81/102 A/T
2012-13 67.7 ppg, 43.7% FG%, 133/129 A/T
2013-14 63.3 ppg, 41.5% FG%, 115/108 A/T

I think what it shows is that in the three seasons Walt has been asked to play PG - clearly his assists and turnovers kinda parallel the whole team's ability (or actually inability) to shoot and score.
I believe the "eye test" also confirms - Walt has simply been forced to play in a next-to-impossible situation where he's the point guard on 3 teams that were not good at scoring or doing much with the ball once it was placed in their hands....

If we had even one other reliable scorer recruited in the past 3 years - then there wouldn't have been such a burden on Walt and his numbers wouldn't look so bad - Walt did was he had to do and what he was asked to do.
He's essentially the poster child for why the MVC PLAYER OF THE YEAR AWARD never gets handed to anyone from the bottom of the league.

I hope your not saying Walt would have been POY if we weren't so bad. I could be wrong but I don't see him on the 1st team all Valley. I'll be shocked if he does .