Best of Times/worse of times-BU BB in the 1960s

[capecod]

Bradley Basketball in the 1960s was the very best of times and the very worst of times. There were great seasons-two NIT Championships & one MVC title(shared with Cincy).

But it could have been much better. Lots of bad (unlucky) stuff happened too.

59/1960: The best of times-Bradley wins the NIT championship even though star guard Bobby Joe Mason runs out of eligibility in mid season and doesn't play in NYC. Mack Herndon is a mid-season 'replacement' and stars in the NIT along w/ Chet Walker

60/1961: Great team (21-5) with a frontcourt of soph Tim Robinson, Mack Herndon and junior Chet Walker. No big man, but Frosh Coach Joe Stowell was on an amazing streak of recruiting big men from Florida (too bad it all didn't work out for the Braves)-one of these big guys-Joe Strawder is already on campus as a BU Frosh

61/1962: Both the best and worse happen in this season. Bradley is Co-champs of the MVC. The Braves lose a playoff game to Cincy which determines the NCAA invitee. Cincy goes on to win the NCAA crown.

BU plays the final two games against Cincy without C Joe Strawder who was suspended from school-and loses both games (after beating the Bearcats with Joe in the starting lineup earlier). F Tim Robinson doesn't return for his junior year nor does F Mack Herndon.

I have to believe that Strawder, Robinson and Herndon would have made a difference in the outcome of this almost great season.

In addition, 7 (yes seven) of a heralded Joe Stowell recruited Frosh team flunk out at mid-season. Among them are Van Ray Salter, a 6'8 center from Orlando, Fla, John Moore a 6'7 F from Sterling, Ed Moore a 6'3 guard from Chicago Bloom, Dean Veenhoof a 6'5 F from Minnesota and a 6'3 left handed guard named Caress who was the QB on the BU football team. Only Caress returns to BU to finish his football career.

62/1963-Strawder is ineligible for the first semester. When Joe gets back, classmate LeVern Tart flunks off the team! Mack Herndon, to his credit, returns to school and leads the Braves in scoring. This should have been Tim Robinson's senior yr. and then there were all of those missing players(Banks, Moore, Van Ray Salter) who would have been sophs if they hadn't flunked out the previous year. Van Ray Salter was considered a carbon copy of fellow Florida native Strawder.

To add insult to injury, Joe Stowell continued his recruiting magic (almost) by getting 6'11 Ft Meyer, Fla C Walt Wesley to sign a MVC Letter of Intent.
Unfortunately, National LOI din't exist at that time. All that LOI did was preclude Wesley from signing with another Valley team but it didn't stop Kansas from stealing him away.

At Kansas, Wesley was billed as the second coming of Wilt Chamberlain

Strawder, Salter and Wesley, all centers and all from Florida in three straight classes(almost). That could have be amazing. Stowell was something else as a recruiter.

63/1964 NIT Champs again. Strawder and Tart, classmates, actually play a full year together for the first and only time in their BU careers. (Tart flunked as a frosh, Strawder got kick out as a soph, and they took turns not playing together as juniors). Just think if Jr Salter and Soph Wesley were on this team + Moore and Banks...............

Oh yes, and Frosh recruit Joe Allen drops out of school after appearing in two frosh games with a knee injury.

64/1965 18-9 NIT team that finished 2nd in Valley. Good squad. Could have been better with Salter (would have been a Sr) and Wesley and company.

Joe Allen comes back to school starting over as a frosh.

65/1966 Very strong BU team led by Soph Joe Allen. Also on the team is Parade AA Willie Betts-but he flunks out at mid season.

Wesley makes AA at Kansas.
Kansas loses in the NCAA when they think they have beaten UTEP on a last second game winning shot by Jo Jo White. But the shot is waved off, with a ref claiming that Jo Jo stepped out of bounds. Wesley fouls out in the second overtime and UTEP wins by one and goes onto the NCAA championship.

66/1967Starting guards Tom Campbell and Alex McNutt both 'seniors to be' leave school. Betts is playing at Pasadena JC(Campbell actually came back in 69-70)

67/1968 Willie Betts comes back but only lasts the 1st semester-flunking again. The Braves w/ Parade AA LC Bowen finish 19-9 and play in their last NIT of the decade (they don't make it back during the 1970s)

68/1969 Guard Al Smith (a senior to be) leaves school (but returns two years later to finish)

69/1970 Coach Stowell signs 7'0 C Tom Payne from Louisville to a LOI, but his parents ? refuse to sign. Kentucky eventually gets Payne-who becomes Adolf Rupp's very first black player.

Stowell loses out to Illinois for Spalding star Alvin O'Neal but gets the second best player on that 2nd place State Tourney team-Lamonia Barksdale. Lamonia flunks out after the first semester.

Steve Kuberski (who averaged 23.0 pts per game the season before) decides to go pro rather than return for his final season of eligibility.

The 1960's end for the Braves

[capecod]

Wish list

rereading the above post, if I had to rank in order the things that I wished had turned out differently with Bradley BB in the 60s they would be:

1 Walt Wesley came to Bradley and stayed 4 years
2 Joe Strawder got to play in those 2 Cincy games in '61-62
3 Tim Robinson stayed 4 years at BU
4 Steve Kuberski came back for his final year instead of turning pro
5 Willie Betts played 4 years at BU
6 Tom Campbell and Alex McNutt played their senior yr together in 66-67
7 Those frosh of 61-62 hadn't all flunked out
8 Payne came to BU(funny how this so low on my wish list-Payne wasn't a model citizen and has been in prison for many years now)Of course it goes without saying that I am assuming that IF Payne had gone to BU instead of Kentucky he would have turned out to be a totally different human being(I have to think this otherwise they is no way Payne even makes my 'wish list'. Maybe BU dodged a bullet on this one)

since I'm wishing here is another one: I wish that Frankie Sylvester would have been 6'4 instead of 5'4 (I probably wouldn't remember him as fondly as I do but I would have liked to see him play with his skill set at a foot taller)

[wily coyote]

rereading the above post, if I had to rank in order the things that I wished had turned out differently with Bradley BB in the 60s they would be:

1 Walt Wesley came to Bradley and stayed 4 years
2 Joe Strawder got to play in those 2 Cincy games in '61-62
3 Tim Robinson stayed 4 years at BU
4 Steve Kuberski came back for his final year instead of turning pro
5 Willie Betts played 4 years at BU
6 Tom Campbell and Alex McNutt played their senior yr together in 66-67
7 Those frosh of 61-62 hadn't all flunked out
8 Payne came to BU(funny how this so low on my wish list-Payne wasn't a model citizen and has been in prison for many years now)Of course it goes without saying that I am assuming that IF Payne had gone to BU instead of Kentucky he would have turned out to be a totally different human being(I have to think this otherwise they is no way Payne even makes my 'wish list'. Maybe BU dodged a bullet on this one)

since I'm wishing here is another one: I wish that Frankie Sylvester would have been 6'4 instead of 5'4 (I probably wouldn't remember him as fondly as I do but I would have liked to see him play with his skill set at a foot taller)

Thanks capecod for the memories. Those were some great players. I can go back even futher. Barney Cable spoke at my grade school basketball banquet. We had so many great players back in the 50's and 60's ,just wish we could bring players in like those today. Sure wish we had the tutors back than that we do today.

[Chico]

Agreed with most everything until it came to Frank. He cost Bradley more games than he helped win. We were the laughing stock of the arenas we played in with a 5'4" major college guard.

[tornado]

MVC basketball in the 1960's produced some pretty good scorers even tho many played only 3 years because freshmen were not eligible...

Here's how the records stood before this past season...

#1 all time in the MVC in career scoring is, of course, Hersey Hawkins 3,008 pts
#2 Oscar Robertson 2,973
#3 Larry Bird 2,860
#4 John Williams 2,374
#5 Mitchell Anderson 2,341
#6 Steve Harris 2,272
#7 Cleo Littleton 2,164
#8 Xavier McDaniel 2,152
#9 Rodney Buford 2,116
#10 Bob Harstad 2,110
#11 Roger Phegley 2,064
#12 Marcus Wilson 2,053
#13 Kent Williams 2,012

but two names need to be added to the list of MVC players who have finished their careers & scored over 2,000 points...

Colt Ryan finished with 2,279 career points
Doug McDermott finished with 2,216


Now here's how the all time career scoring records stand currently:

#1 Hersey Hawkins 3,008 pts
#2 Oscar Robertson 2,973
#3 Larry Bird 2,860
#4 John Williams 2,374
#5 Mitchell Anderson 2,341
#6 Colt Ryan 2,279
#7 Steve Harris 2,272
#8 Doug McDermott 2,216
#9 Cleo Littleton 2,164
#10 Xavier McDaniel 2,152
#11 Rodney Buford 2,116
#12 Bob Harstad 2,110
#13 Roger Phegley 2,064
#14 Marcus Wilson 2,053
#15 Kent Williams 2,012
#16 Chet Walker 1,975

[capecod]

Walt Gerard

I am a bit surprised to see this thread reappear on the front page - orginally posted awhile back....

Although my own personal fondest memories of Bradley basketball occurred in the 1960's, I realize most posters don't find this 'history' of much interest.

But since these posts has reappeared:

After re-reading my posts above I noticed that I had left out one very significant name off the list of BU players from that 60s era who didn't stay in school after a great start with the Braves-Walt Gerard.

Walt Gerard was a 6'9 Center on the 1959-60 BU frosh team from Peoria Central. Despite the fact that both Tim Robinson and Mack Herndon were also on that same frosh squad,it was Gerard who was the top scorer- averaging 23.0 pts per game (high game of 39 pts).

Herndon left the frosh squad that year after 10 games-moving to the varsity at mid season and starring in the NIT Championship game for the Braves/Robinson flunked off the frosh team-also after 10 games-leaving Gerard to shoulder the load the rest of the season.

Gerald's average was the 4th best points per game average ever in the days of BU frosh teams:

1. LC Bowen 23.8 '65-66 Frosh
2 Mike Harrell 23.6 '70-71
3 Chet Walker 23.2 '58-59
4 Walt Gerard 23.0 '59-60
5 Joe Allen 22.3 '64-65

Gerald played some as a soph in 60-61(the starting frontcourt was Herdon/Robinson/Walker). But the following season Herndon, Robinson and Gerard were all gone.

Despite losing all 3 players in 61-62, the Braves tied Cincinnati for the MVC title....only to have to play that playoff game without yet another player- Soph Center Joe Strawder who had been suspended from school. After defeating BU in the playoff game, the Bearcats went on the win the NCAA Championship.

In a remarkable five year period, BU Frosh coach and chief recruiter Joe Stowell brought in centers:

59-60 Walt Gerard 6'9 (left after soph year)
60-61 Joe Strawder 6'9
61-62 Van Roy Salter 6'8 (flunked out mid frosh year)
62-63 signed Walt Wesley 6'11 to a MVC letter of intent(before Kansas took him away from the Braves)
63-64 Joe Allen 6'6 (who had to drop out of school-but reentered the following year)

[Chico]

I was in the service during most of the glory years of 1959-62 so I missed out on a lot. Did see the 1960 NIT game against Providence in a little bar in Washington, DC. We had just arrived the day before and still had our uniforms on. Had the whole place rooting for the Braves. First game after my discharge in 1962 was late in the season against Dusquene and Wille Somerset. They beat us in the Fieldhouse and if I remember right, in the NIT also that season.

[tornado]

One other thing Doug McDermott misses out on in the MVC record books is his total of MVC Player of the Week Awards...
McDermott ends his MVC career with 13 MVC POW awards and thus Hersey Hawkins stays as career leader in that category with 14.

[capecod]

the mystery of Dean Veenhof-BU frosh 1961-62

My initial post at the top of this tread mentioned the seven BU frosh basketball players who flunked out at mid season. A number of those frosh would have really helped the Braves had they stayed in school.

The most 'mysterious' among the 7 was Dean Veenhof a 6'5 forward from Edgerton, Minnesota.

I was reminded of Veenhof again while responding to a post about Bob Cousy on this site. I had pulled out my old copies of Dell Basketball Magazine. In addition to being the very best college basketball magazine from 1950 through the late '60s, the magazine also featured a High School BB AA section:

Dean Veenhof was listed as a 2nd team HS All American by Dell Magazine (one of the top ten HS players) in 1961. Dean was listed as the top player in Minnesota(a aside-1st team AA that season included Bill Bradley-later of Princeton and NY Knicks fame & 3rd team AA included Tom Van Arsdale -one of the twins at Indiana & also in the NBA).

A recent 2012 article (linked below) lists Veenhof as the 22nd best player in Minnesota HS basketball tournament history.

There is plenty on the Internet about Veenhof leading his HS team to the Minnesota State Championship. But nothing (at least that I could find) about his basketball career after HS.

I know Veenhof started at Bradley-he is listed on the roster-played in a few games, but like his six BU frosh teammates,he was gone after one semester in Peoria.

Does anyone know more of this story?

http://www.twincities.com/ci_20200448/minnesota-boys-basketball-top-100-best-players-state

[tornado]

wow - great memory capecod - those were some fun days at Bradley - although I didn't follow them much then...

Anyway -- Dean Veenhof left Bradley and transferred to Augustana College in Sioux Falls, SD.

Here are a few words from some sources...

"...all-state prep basketball star from Minnesota will quit Bradley University
for a smaller college at the end of the current semester. Dean Veenhof, a 6-5
member of the freshman squad from Edgerton. Minn, will transfer to
Augustana College, Sioux Falls, . D. Freshman coach Joe Stowell said
Veenhof, a member of the 1959 Minnesota state champion team from
Edgerton, was .. suspended ... Stowell called Veenhof "a good, hard worker"
and said there were no hard feelings on either side. "The difference between
the two state's brand of basketball was just too much and ..more than the
boy realized," Stowell said. ' He said Veenhof had not faced top-level high
school competition such as that in Illinois before coming to college."

http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/39159762/

Veenhof then got a job coaching basketball in New York, doesn't look like he ever played pro ball
...and this comment after he retired......
"One of Edgerton's stars, Dean Veenhof, retired after coaching basketball
and lives in upstate New York, where he drives a bus for a summer baseball team."

http://www.twincities.com/ci_14441918

More-
"Veenhof retired as president of the New York State Public High School Athletic Association in 2001.
He was a physical education teacher in the state for 28 years."

http://www.zoominfo.com/p/Dean-Veenhof/1611777

[tornado]

From another source, I have confirmed that during the 1962-63 season at Augustana (SD), he averaged 14.1 ppg, 8.4 rpg
injuries hampered him the rest of his career.

[capecod]

mystery solved

thanks for the info Tornado !!

[tornado]

here's an old Bradley program I wish I'd have bid on...a mention of Veenhof with Chet the Jet on the cover

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Program-Bradley-vs-Northern-Michigan-12-7-1961-Chet-Bradley-on-cover-/131003694916

[capecod]

'61-62 Frosh big game vs Cincinnati

The big game of the year for the BU frosh in 1961/62 was against the Cincinnati frosh in Peoria-1/27/62

The game occurred 3 games before the 7 frosh were declared ineligible for the second semester.

The BU frosh played without 6'7 John Moore (Sterling, Ill) who had scored 26 pts in the team's previous game.

The BU Frosh team won 88-72

Rich Donley 6'2 guard scored 25 to lead the Papooses
Ed Moore 6'3 guard scored 20
Van Ray Salter 6'8 center had 14
Veenhof DNP(clearly despite his 'press clippings' as a HS AA, Dean was not the player BU thought they had recruited).

The Papooses then beat Southern Illinois frosh 82-76 in the next game with Van Ray Salter scoring 22.

all but Donley were gone 1 game later(a loss to the ST Louis frosh 74-73)

Veenhof best game for BU was 5 pts vs Bloom JC

[tornado]

Veenhof was a slender 6-5 post player who played at a small school in MN...
in college, he'd have been playing kids like Chet Walker & Joe Allen and he obviously wasn't built for it..