Offensive Rebounding

[Stat Freak]

In the news article on the Braves, it was said that
"Let's call it a "B-minus"
rebounding would be a challenge for Bradley
BU was in arrears most of the night and got whipped, 16-9, under the Raiders' basket. "

Correction- when a ball comes off the "Raiders' basket" and into the Raiders' hands it is indeed an offensive rebound.
But when one comes off into the Braves' hands, it is a defensive rebound, not an offensive rebound.
So the nine offensive rebounds attributed to Bradley did not occur "under the Raiders' basket", but instead under the Braves' basket.

Here are some thoughts.
A good shooting team (and BU is a good shooting team) will tend towards fewer offensive rebounds, because there just aren't as many to get, that simple more go in and fewer come out to rebound.

Just look at the box score. Wright State missed 43 shots from the field, and 8 more from the FT line, so possibly as many as 51 rebounds were available "under the Raiders' basket". (actually some of the missed FT don't have a rebound and some shots that are missed don't either if a whistle blows or some of the time that the ball goes out of play.)

Of those rebounds available off the Raiders' basket, Bradley got 32 of them (BU's defensive total) and Wright got only 16.
So BU got 2/3 of them.
Under Bradley's basket, BU got 9 and WSU got 22, roughly the same percaentage in reverse, as the defensive team generally is going to get more of the rebounds.

In total, there were 48 rebounds off Wright's board and only 31 off BU's board.
So of course BU will get fewer OR than Wright State did.

So if we correct the concept portrayed as to what an offensive rebound is, then we see that Bradley got roughly the same amount off offensive rebounds by the pct. of what's available as Wright State did.
Add to that, Bradley's starting post player and best rebounder was obviously missing from the game for long stretches, because he was in foul trouble and only played 17 minutes, but he still got 7 rebounds and 1/3 of all BU's offensive rebounds.

In all, it was a very good game and you really have to butcher the stats to argue otherwise.

[Bravesguy]

I saw that.
Obviously some people don't understand what is an offensive and defensive rebound.
A rebound is only classified as O or D after it is grabbed.
If there are 20 fewer missed shots on the Bradley end of the floor, then it's a no-brainer there will be fewer offensive rebounds for Bradley.
To even be as close as 16-9 differential is pretty decent rebounding, not bad.

[it's boogie time]

Bradley gave up double digit offensive rebounds for the 5th straight game. Do any of you see this as a cause for concern?

[tornado]

Last night, Zach andrews played 17 minutes.
That means for 23 minutes out of 40, BU had nobody over 6'7" on the floor, and only one player other than perimeter shooters/under 6'5".
I am willing to accept that Bradley will not be one of the best offensive rebounding teams.

But look at this....and I am not saying this is rocket science, just observation....

Straight from the MVC stats pages, Bradley is averaging 10.13 offensive rebounds per game.
IF Bradley were say, to grab TWO more OFFENSIVE REBOUNDS per game that they are getting, then we'd be among the top 4 offensive rebounding teams in the conference
(we'd jump from 10th in the MVC to 4th),
But how many points do those two that we presently don't get cost us?
No more than a couple given stats about FG shooting, so all this talk about the rebounding actually only costs a theoretic 2 or so points a game.

By positioning our shooters farther from the basket and getting 3-point opportunities, (the other side of not hanging close to get those rebounds) actually gains Bradley WAY more points than those lost rebounds account for.

We make more than FOUR more 3-pointers than the 4th best team in the league in that category, and 3.5 more per game than anyone else in the conference.
So the strategy of looking for the three may cost us a couple points in the rebounding argument, but it gains us directly at least 10-12 more points on MADE 3-POINTERS.
And from what I gather, Jim Les has already accounted for this and that's why he plays the offensive style he does!
Net gain therefore is 8-10 points with our style of offense that is naturally going to cost a few rebounds but gain a whole lot more extra treys.

[it's boogie time]

No more than a couple given stats about FG shooting, so all this talk about the rebounding actually only costs a theoretic 2 or so points a game.

The difference between 5-3 and 6-2 or 7-1 at this point.

How many more games will BU give away with second chance points in the Valley?

My point isn't that BU isn't getting enough offensive rebounds, it's how many the opposition is getting.

[Da Coach]

Bradley gave up double digit offensive rebounds for the 5th straight game. Do any of you see this as a cause for concern?

It will be a cause for concern in games when their shots aren't falling.

[tornado]

Re: Offensive Rebounding

In the news article on the Braves, it was said that
"Let's call it a "B-minus"
rebounding would be a challenge for Bradley
BU was in arrears most of the night and got whipped, 16-9, under the Raiders' basket. "

Correction- when a ball comes off the "Raiders' basket" and into the Raiders' hands it is indeed an offensive rebound.
But when one comes off into the Braves' hands, it is a defensive rebound, not an offensive rebound.
So the nine offensive rebounds attributed to Bradley did not occur "under the Raiders' basket", but instead under the Braves' basket.

Here are some thoughts.
A good shooting team (and BU is a good shooting team) will tend towards fewer offensive rebounds, because there just aren't as many to get, that simple more go in and fewer come out to rebound.

Just look at the box score. Wright State missed 43 shots from the field, and 8 more from the FT line, so possibly as many as 51 rebounds were available "under the Raiders' basket". (actually some of the missed FT don't have a rebound and some shots that are missed don't either if a whistle blows or some of the time that the ball goes out of play.)

Of those rebounds available off the Raiders' basket, Bradley got 32 of them (BU's defensive total) and Wright got only 16.
So BU got 2/3 of them.
Under Bradley's basket, BU got 9 and WSU got 22, roughly the same percaentage in reverse, as the defensive team generally is going to get more of the rebounds.

In total, there were 48 rebounds off Wright's board and only 31 off BU's board.
So of course BU will get fewer OR than Wright State did.

So if we correct the concept portrayed as to what an offensive rebound is, then we see that Bradley got roughly the same amount off offensive rebounds by the pct. of what's available as Wright State did.
Add to that, Bradley's starting post player and best rebounder was obviously missing from the game for long stretches, because he was in foul trouble and only played 17 minutes, but he still got 7 rebounds and 1/3 of all BU's offensive rebounds.

In all, it was a very good game and you really have to butcher the stats to argue otherwise.

If you saw the game last night on ESPN, Tennessee simply mauled Memphis and blew out to an early 20+ point, led by 21 at half, and won with hot shooting, nice passing, and doing everything right.
Memphis was clanking away with terrible shots, bad misses, and yet they were grabbing a whole lot of their own badly missed shots and shooting again and again with weak "2nd chance points", that never dented the 20 point lead.

Anyone who saw the game would have agreed Tennessee dominated in every aspect over Memphis and an observer would likely have nothing good to say about Memphis.

But--guess what??
Memphis totally dominated in offensive rebounds!!
The final count was 22-12!!, but at one point Memphis was beating Tennessee in offensive rebounds 9-0!

I guess if the PJS was reporting on this game they'd say they had some real reservations about Tennessee since they got beat so bad on offensive rebounds, but the reason was obvious, that Tennessee shot well and Memphis shot poorly (28%).

By the way, Chris Lofton, Dane Bradshaw, and JaJuan Smith (the 3 remaining Buzz Peterson recruits) had awesome games, accounting for 52 of UT's 76 points
The other 7 players who logged minutes only accounted for the remaining 24 points proving Buzz Peterson was a pretty darned good recruiter.

[Dallas Brave]

Re: Offensive Rebounding

In the news article on the Braves, it was said that
"Let's call it a "B-minus"
rebounding would be a challenge for Bradley
BU was in arrears most of the night and got whipped, 16-9, under the Raiders' basket. "

Correction- when a ball comes off the "Raiders' basket" and into the Raiders' hands it is indeed an offensive rebound.
But when one comes off into the Braves' hands, it is a defensive rebound, not an offensive rebound.
So the nine offensive rebounds attributed to Bradley did not occur "under the Raiders' basket", but instead under the Braves' basket.

Here are some thoughts.
A good shooting team (and BU is a good shooting team) will tend towards fewer offensive rebounds, because there just aren't as many to get, that simple more go in and fewer come out to rebound.

Just look at the box score. Wright State missed 43 shots from the field, and 8 more from the FT line, so possibly as many as 51 rebounds were available "under the Raiders' basket". (actually some of the missed FT don't have a rebound and some shots that are missed don't either if a whistle blows or some of the time that the ball goes out of play.)

Of those rebounds available off the Raiders' basket, Bradley got 32 of them (BU's defensive total) and Wright got only 16.
So BU got 2/3 of them.
Under Bradley's basket, BU got 9 and WSU got 22, roughly the same percaentage in reverse, as the defensive team generally is going to get more of the rebounds.

In total, there were 48 rebounds off Wright's board and only 31 off BU's board.
So of course BU will get fewer OR than Wright State did.

So if we correct the concept portrayed as to what an offensive rebound is, then we see that Bradley got roughly the same amount off offensive rebounds by the pct. of what's available as Wright State did.
Add to that, Bradley's starting post player and best rebounder was obviously missing from the game for long stretches, because he was in foul trouble and only played 17 minutes, but he still got 7 rebounds and 1/3 of all BU's offensive rebounds.

In all, it was a very good game and you really have to butcher the stats to argue otherwise.

If you saw the game last night on ESPN, Tennessee simply mauled Memphis and blew out to an early 20+ point, led by 21 at half, and won with hot shooting, nice passing, and doing everything right.
Memphis was clanking away with terrible shots, bad misses, and yet they were grabbing a whole lot of their own badly missed shots and shooting again and again with weak "2nd chance points", that never dented the 20 point lead.

Anyone who saw the game would have agreed Tennessee dominated in every aspect over Memphis and an observer would likely have nothing good to say about Memphis.

But--guess what??
Memphis totally dominated in offensive rebounds!!
The final count was 22-12!!, but at one point Memphis was beating Tennessee in offensive rebounds 9-0!

I guess if the PJS was reporting on this game they'd say they had some real reservations about Tennessee since they got beat so bad on offensive rebounds, but the reason was obvious, that Tennessee shot well and Memphis shot poorly (28%).

By the way, Chris Lofton, Dane Bradshaw, and JaJuan Smith (the 3 remaining Buzz Peterson recruits) had awesome games, accounting for 52 of UT's 76 points
The other 7 players who logged minutes only accounted for the remaining 24 points proving Buzz Peterson was a pretty darned good recruiter.

Didn't the PJS Sports Section have a headline in today's paper saying, "Memphis Whips Tennessee Under the Vols' Basket"

[Stat Freak]

There's another story in the PJ Star today involving offensive rebounding.
In Richwoods' win over Manual last night, they shot so well, that in the first half their
shooting percantage was 80% (16-20), they had only missed a couple shots.
In fact their hot shooting continued the rest of the night and they had
a fairly easy win with Justion Dehm scoring 22 on 9-10 from outside.

But the bit about offensive rebounding involved the coach jabbing the
players at halftime that they had
only one offensive rebound in the first half.
Billy Cole is quoted as thinking that was funny since they had barely missed any shots
and were playing so extremely well, that the coach had to dig to find something to pick about.

""The coaches at halftime complained we had just one offensive rebound," said a laughing Cole, who finished with a game-high nine boards. "I was down there. There weren't any (missed shots) to rebound."

http://pjstar.com/stories/120906/HS__BBOCSDAO.080.shtml