Creighton and the new Catholic 7 league

[Tulsa Brave]

I always support the team 100% - with my words & actaions and even with my financial support - wish more people did - but the empty upper bowl indicates otherwise - and I fear it's going to get worse unless things turn around fast..

Didn't you just recently say that the upper bowl ticket holders didn't really matter???

[tornado]

geez...you are truly the king of the imaginary misquote..
what I said is it will take more than our walk up attendance and a few folks in the upper bowl to impress any LEAGUE into wanting Bradley as a member - EVERY fan matters, but in case you didn't notice - one league just went after Creighton despite all their geographical disadvantages - and guess why??
ATTENDANCE and enthusiastic fan base - same thing we have ...and had to a greater extent until recently - if you deny the loss of about 2000 season ticket holders in the past two years or if you want to blame that on someone from 2002 then keep trying - I am getting a little laugh out of some fans' reaction to find someone to blame this on

[Tulsa Brave]

geez...you are truly the king of the imaginary misquote..
what I said is it will take more than our walk up attendance and a few folks in the upper bowl to impress any LEAGUE into wanting Bradley as a member - EVERY fan matters, but in case you didn't notice - one league just went after Creighton despite all their geographical disadvantages - and guess why??
ATTENDANCE and enthusiastic fan base - same thing we have ...and had to a greater extent until recently - if you deny the loss of about 2000 season ticket holders in the past two years or if you want to blame that on someone from 2002 then keep trying - I am getting alittle laugh out of some fans' reaction to find someone to blame this on

I kinda thought the CATHOLIC 7 were maybe going after them because they were a Catholic school. Guess I was wrong?

[tornado]

There are lots of other Catholic schools they are not going after - but Creighton's success & attendance are the keys...note they are not calling Detroit, Loyola, LaSalle, St. Joe's, St. Bonaventure, Fordham, Duquesne, Holy Cross, Fairfield, Loyola of MD, Siena, and others..

[amckillip]

I kinda thought the CATHOLIC 7 were maybe going after them because they were a Catholic school. Guess I was wrong?

Butler is not catholic. It helps, but the biggest thing in common with Butler, Creighton, and Xavier is winning at Basketball. Something we haven't done for 5 years.

[Da Coach]

Butler is not catholic. It helps, but the biggest thing in common with Butler, Creighton, and Xavier is winning at Basketball. Something we haven't done for 5 years.

Wrong. I guess I need to keep correcting this error. 4 years ago we won 21 games. Even 3 years ago we had a winning season.

[amckillip]

Wrong. I guess I need to keep correcting this error. 4 years ago we won 21 games. Even 3 years ago we had a winning season.

I am not talking win total or a better than .500 record. Many teams win 21 games, it does not mean they will get invitations to a better league.

[BUBalum05]

I still think waving the 20 win flag is pointless. The 20 win plateau is rather arbitrary when it takes 35-38 games to get there.
Its more impressive to win 22 in only 33 during Sweet Sixteen season.

[Da Coach]

Its not pointless when you are beating good teams. Look back and see that those were quality teams we were beating, and in some cases like Oakland, creating some unforgettable memories for fans. We sold 9000+ tickets for the Tulsa game. How would that compare if we got a CBI bid this year?

[TheAsianSensation]

I'm breaking my vow of silence to address an extensive long list of opinions I feel are misguided about the subject in general.

Short Term Option:
Stick in the MVC. Absolutely require Elgin to pick a private to replace Creighton. Elgin will need to add 2 more teams besides that to increase tv population and fan base from loss of Creighton fan base. I suspect he is going to chase after Oral Roberts as his #1, Valpo as #2, and Detroit? / SIUE? / Loyola as #3. Its anybody's guess. This model is going to blow apart in the longer term as our football schools look for higher status and $$$$ in the FBS.

Short Term Option:
Head to the A-10 for the 'leftover' private school basketball centric party. This gets us with like academic schools. Our fan base may not like this. Probably will be the best long term option as the A-10 may be done being pillaged and will rebuild.

I think from a strategy standpoint, you can't try to replace a big name with another one. You'll always come up short. That's why I support Oral Bob.

I definitely think the A-10 is a viable option now, BUT (and it's a big one) we need western partners for that league. If StL and Dayton bolt from there, we can't go without other help.

as bad as they are doing this year UW-M would be tickled to get an invite to the MVC - and it would give the Valley a BIG-city market...
then offer two more to bring MVC membership up to 12..
Maybe ORU, Detroit, Green Bay, UM-KC, CSU..and FB shouldn't matter - hey - Butler, Dayton, UMass all play FB in different league than BB

Valley has always been about big dogs in medium markets, not small dogs in big markets. I hope Green Bay, UMKC, and CSU weren't serious suggestions, and UWM and Detroit's markets are secondary considerations.

Also, football matters. A LOT. Dayton and Butler play non-scholly football, that's how they do what they do. As far as realignment is concerned, they play zero football.

geez...you are truly the king of the imaginary misquote..
what I said is it will take more than our walk up attendance and a few folks in the upper bowl to impress any LEAGUE into wanting Bradley as a member - EVERY fan matters, but in case you didn't notice - one league just went after Creighton despite all their geographical disadvantages - and guess why??
ATTENDANCE and enthusiastic fan base - same thing we have ...and had to a greater extent until recently - if you deny the loss of about 2000 season ticket holders in the past two years or if you want to blame that on someone from 2002 then keep trying - I am getting a little laugh out of some fans' reaction to find someone to blame this on

You are right about attendance here, with regards to Creighton. But let's be humble here - even at Bradley's peak, we can't touch what Creighton does with attendance. And that's a credit to Creighton more than a diss on BU, because we can easily be top 50 in the country.

But to say we can provide the same attendance positives as Creighton at our peak is silly.

There are lots of other Catholic schools they are not going after - but Creighton's success & attendance are the keys...note they are not calling Detroit, Loyola, LaSalle, St. Joe's, St. Bonaventure, Fordham, Duquesne, Holy Cross, Fairfield, Loyola of MD, Siena, and others..

They're not going after other Catholics because:
Xavier is catholic
St Louis is
Dayton is
They're not bothering with the others because they can field a good league of Catholics already.
The only 2 that aren't catholic being talked about is Butler (for obvious reasons) and Richmond.....and even Richmond is being discarded mostly.

Catholic isn't the end all be all here, but it definitely matters. Thinking otherwise is a bit shallow.

Butler is not catholic. It helps, but the biggest thing in common with Butler, Creighton, and Xavier is winning at Basketball. Something we haven't done for 5 years.

I wouldn't necessarily put Creighton in the same class as the other 2. That's why the other 2 were shoe-ins. The dirty little fact no one realizes is that Creighton's lack of tourney success almost cost them here.

Wrong. I guess I need to keep correcting this error. 4 years ago we won 21 games. Even 3 years ago we had a winning season.

What. You're looking at the wrong type of winning. 20 win seasons because of EIEIO tourneys are nice but not enough. Winning the right games to get in the NCAAs (every year, multiple S16s for Xavier, multiple tourneys for Creighton, all the success of Butler) is what matters. BU's overall win totals in those 4 seasons pale, absolutely pale, in comparison to those 3. It is your error for trying to equate those win totals with the other schools.

Its not pointless when you are beating good teams. Look back and see that those were quality teams we were beating, and in some cases like Oakland, creating some unforgettable memories for fans. We sold 9000+ tickets for the Tulsa game. How would that compare if we got a CBI bid this year?

Yes, we beat good teams, and we're smart enough to know they were good. But look at context. We're talking about a league branching off from the Big East. Big East conference schedules. The elite schedule Butler and sometimes Xavier plays.

Our wins just have no value compared to those.

Even Creighton has had a stronger non-con SoS than us consistently.

When we schedule so many Horizon schools, even if we beat them, they're just wins over Horizon schools. Not upper-major schools. In fact, by associating so much with them in the non-con in the last decade, that may have hurt a lot.


and finally, the main attraction:

Had all this happened in 2006, or back in 1996 - BU would have been in a MUCH better position - people woulda been calling......
Bradley sure did pick a bad time to make moves that sunk us to the bottom of the picking order...

If this happened in 2006 we'd be in the exact same position. To think we'd be in a better spot is ridiculous. And complete revisionist history.

We are exactly as attractive today as in 2006. The C7 wouldn't have called us either time. And if the A-10 wants another western team, we're the first call. In 2013. We'd also be the first call in 2006.

[Da Coach]

I agree with some. But disagree with some too.
Right now we are not in nearly as good a position to move to another conference. We have been active in calling. We won't be taken seriously.

[TheAsianSensation]

I agree with some. But disagree with some too.
Right now we are not in nearly as good a position to move to another conference. We have been active in calling. We won't be taken seriously.

Obviously I don't have the connections others may have, but I'll be honest: I think from the A-10's point of view, if they wanted to go west of Ohio, we're the first call. Maybe 2nd, behind Detroit, who knows. But our product is plenty good for them, at least. On paper.

[Rusty 54]

Sustained success on a national level gets us an invite to the new Big East/C7.

One great season won't do it. 20+ win seasons won't do it.

Maybe the best case scenario is Creighton and WSU leave the Valley, we dominate for 5 yeras, and get an invite before the football playing schools go to the MAC.

[tornado]

We are exactly as attractive today as in 2006. ...

Can't agree.
I have personal conversations with friends who are in the athletic departments of other D-I schools all of whom will loudly refute you on this -- Bradley - with all the coaching candidates they tried to bring in and who turned right around and then declined, and with BU's abysmal performances in their top sports, a 30-40% dropoff in attendance in basketball, a 60-70% dropoff in ticket sales for the TOURNEY...and with head coaches having their best years then walking out the door to step down to a fledgling program, and with the bad hires in a couple different sports...has now positioned itself poorly, in the view of others schools ..
we had way more respect nationally, way more TV & media offers wanting to deal with us, and plenty of schools willing to hire then succeed with the guys we cast off.......

[TheAsianSensation]

can't agree.
I have personal conversations with friends who are in the athletic departments of other D-I schools all of whom will loudly refute you on this -- Bradley - with all the coaching candidates they tried to bring in and who turned right around and then declined, and with BU's abysmal performances in their top sports, a 30-40% dropoff in attendance in basketball, a 60-70% dropoff in ticket sales for the TOURNEY...and with head coaches having their best years then walking out the door to step down to a fledgling program, and with the bad hires in a couple different sports...has now positioned itself poorly, in the view of others schools ..
we had way more respect nationally, way more TV & media offers wanting to deal with us, and plenty of schools willing to hire then succeed with the guys we cast off.......

I look at the 2006 era and I don't see us any worse off now than then. Now, we can argue if it's been mismanaged right now, and that's a fair argument, but I don't see any decline since '06.

The bigger point is that all you describe is somewhat important, but not close to the end all here. Market still matters, we still have a complete claim to Peoria which helps for the A-10 at least, our attendance drop off still leaves us sitting pretty compared to the A-10 schools...

Our TV opportunities seem to be about the same they always have, with the one-year exception of 2007, obviously. We have just as much respect nationally now that we did in '06. Face it, to the public we were the cute mid major darling then. Not a powerhouse.

And yes, some guys we cast off have success elsewhere. In the SUMMIT LEAGUE (WIU) AND THE ATLANTIC SUN (FGCU) as examples. Lesser conferences, lesser schools, easier to win. I hope the guys we have are good enough to win in those conferences. Show me one example where a BU guy left and succeeded at an institution "above" BU in the pecking order. Then you'd have a point.