Creighton and the new Catholic 7 league

[TheAsianSensation]

There's enough left-over good, mostly-private, basketball-only schools like Bradley to at least have some discussions of getting another league with BU,
maybe SLU, ORU, Drake, Detroit, Valpo, etc...and throw in Wichita, and a few more...........we need to be negotiating...

There's actually an extension on this idea I've been kicking around.

Let's say St Louis and Dayton get left behind in the A-10. And the A-10 loses Xavier, Butler, and either St Joe's or Richmond.

The A-10 would likely expand back to 14 teams. Instead of taking more marginal eastern programs, would they go after a Detroit/Bradley/Valpo package or similar? Would BU be offered, and would BU accept in that scenario?

[Da Coach]

I agree that if the C7 wants Creighton, they will take the offer.
But I don't see Wichita State leaving the MVC for the Mountain West. Even if there is a little more money involved, it wouldn't be substantial amounts, and they would be giving up decades of rivaries, and tradition and taking on enormous amounts of travel, and relative obscurity by playing teams that are 1, 2, or more time zones away. Besides, any extra revenues the MWC generates mostly come from football, which WSU would probably not be included in. They are far better served staying with a non-football conference like the MVC.

The MVC will survive as a strong entity, and Bradley will be best to remain with the MVC. Even if Wichita left, which I doubt will happen, it is not that big a loss for the MVC. They can be replaced.

[SFP]

I just can't see St. Louis getting left behind. I'd say they are a shoe in and a step ahead of CU.

C7 + Xavier, Butler, St. Louis

The other 2 spots will be either CU, Dayton, Richmond, dark horse Detroit. You can't ignore the Detroit market.

[Indy_BB]

The Fox contract (3mm ish per team for 12 years) is contigent on having 12 teams.

Butler and Xavier are locks
Creighton and Dayton nearly so
and St Louis used to occupy that last spot, but VCU has seemingly gotten a lot of support lately and have at least pulled equal with them.

From the sound of it, they are going to do what's necessary to get this league started for 13/14 to coincide with the relaunch of Fox1 (currently Speed channel)

The subprime games will be sold off to smaller parties (SNY, ESPN, CBS Sports, etc) virtually every game will be broadcast nationally or regionally (on the Fox regional channels)

[stevebu91]

I continue to believe that the C7 breakup will actually bring positives to BU. Its an opportunity.

1) We still have the MVC which has remained relevant. Lets put it that way, relevant. You also have colleges that are open to discussion and aren't sitting in their seats.

To the alternative...The MVC without Creighton and Wichita State (believed to have an itch) aren't a conference that I would want any part of. JMHO...You would need to have strong replacements. SLU is out for the MVC and will be in the C7..Its a Jesuit thing......Name an immediate impact school, unless you can get a decent A-10 remainderman or two, that would continue the MVC relevancy.

Keep up the conversations Dr. Cross and Glass... BU, when the dust settles in 2-3 years will be in an academic conference with like private schools. It's profile doesn't match the MVC conference today/tomorrow. We need more time to build our profile though!!!!

[Gary the Gargoyle]

There's actually an extension on this idea I've been kicking around.

Let's say St Louis and Dayton get left behind in the A-10. And the A-10 loses Xavier, Butler, and either St Joe's or Richmond.

The A-10 would likely expand back to 14 teams. Instead of taking more marginal eastern programs, would they go after a Detroit/Bradley/Valpo package or similar? Would BU be offered, and would BU accept in that scenario?

I would support jumping at that in a heart-beat. I don't want to wait around until the MVC becomes more known for football than basketball, or ISU jumps to the MAC.

[TheAsianSensation]

I agree that if the C7 wants Creighton, they will take the offer.
But I don't see Wichita State leaving the MVC for the Mountain West. Even if there is a little more money involved, it wouldn't be substantial amounts, and they would be giving up decades of rivaries, and tradition and taking on enormous amounts of travel, and relative obscurity by playing teams that are 1, 2, or more time zones away. Besides, any extra revenues the MWC generates mostly come from football, which WSU would probably not be included in. They are far better served staying with a non-football conference like the MVC.

The MVC will survive as a strong entity, and Bradley will be best to remain with the MVC. Even if Wichita left, which I doubt will happen, it is not that big a loss for the MVC. They can be replaced.

I was actually thinking that WSU would be invited in a league that would add some of Tulsa and UTEP among others and Wichita could have a plains-based division to work with. But valid points nonetheless.

I think my wory with BU and the MVC longterm is that the loss of WSU and CU would tilt the football/nonfootball balance to the other side. The MVC is a threat, in 10-15 years, to become the junior version of the Big East in terms of membership splits and different goals and agendas of each team (FCS football, FBS aspirations, football-first, basketball-first, etc etc). But that's a down-the-line worry and not something threatening us for the next couple years.

[thefish7]

I would support jumping at that in a heart-beat. I don't want to wait around until the MVC becomes more known for football than basketball, or ISU jumps to the MAC.

Or does the MVC manage to capture Dayton and SLU in that case? I can't imagine the A10 is that attractive to the western outposts once Xavier, Butler, and Richmond or St Joes are gone. The MVC at the bottom is a much better conference than the A10 at the bottom is.

Compare the BU situation in either scenario:

MVC:
Bradley
Dayton
Drake
Evansville
Indiana St
Missouri St
Northern Iowa
St Louis
SIU
Wichita St

A10:
Bradley
Dayton
Duquesne*
Fordham*
GWU
LaSalle*
UMass
URI*
St Bonnie*
Richmond or St Joes
SLU
VCU

I've gone ahead an marked the trash with asterisks. Each of those teams is arguably worse than Evansville (the program everyone loves to diss in the MVC) over the last 10 years or so. Also UMass, I think will probably end up in another conference soon.. So that leaves your quality programs as GWU, VCU and Richmond or St Joes. The MVC is a better league with much better geography for us, even if WSU leaves. So I'd have to think long and hard about jumping to an A10 without Xavier or Butler, even if Dayton and SLU were still in the conference. And if I was Dayton and SLU left behind in the A10 I'd think long and hard about the MVC as a step up.

[SFP]

Xavier and Butler are shoe ins, so that's off the table. I just do not see SLU not joining the C12. If I'm FOX I'd want SLU and the conference makeup will dictate SLU. Now FOX will be trying to pull their strings as well and what makes sense to them may not make sense to the conference. Who wins out? Money does so anything is possible. I know DePaul wants CU in the mix. Can they and will they pull their market clout? Detroit and Richmond would also make sense on a few counts.

C7 + Xavier + Butler
SLU
CU + Dayton + (Richmond or VCU) + Detroit + Dusquane They all have a drawback and bring something very positive to the table.
Davidson + BU + DU + Valpo non catholic private schools that are outside of the cut unless it goes to 16.

I have to believe the way everything is breaking that a basketball focused conference will need to be at 16 and make sure the travel costs for the other sports teams are manageable. So this is where everything gets fuzzy.

East
Vill
GT
Providance
St. John
SH


Xavier - Could end up in either the mid-west or east coast division. I'd guess they will start off in the east but may change if teams are added.

Mid_West
Marq
DePaul
Butler
SLU
CU - I'd bet they are as good as gone.....

So in my analysis there is one more slot in the mid-west unless Xavier slides into the mid-west.

[TheAsianSensation]

I posted this elsewhere but this is my rough guess at the pecking order for this new conference:

Tier 1: Xavier, Butler
Tier 2: Dayton, St Louis, Creighton
Tier 3: Richmond
Tier Go West, Young Man: Gonzaga, St Mary's
Tier 4: VCU, St Joseph's, Wichita St, Detroit, Duquesne
Tier 5: Drake, George Mason, St Bonaventure
Tier Hope: Bradley

[SFP]

I posted this elsewhere but this is my rough guess at the pecking order for this new conference:

Tier 1: Xavier, Butler
Tier 2: Dayton, St Louis, Creighton
Tier 3: Richmond
Tier Go West, Young Man: Gonzaga, St Mary's
Tier 4: VCU, St Joseph's, Wichita St, Detroit, Duquesne
Tier 5: Drake, George Mason, St Bonaventure
Tier Hope: Bradley

Dayton will not be in that pecking order for FOX$$$ and the west coast schools already have their conference set but I'm betting they will not hesitate to enter into an agreement with the C12 schools for marketing opportunities. It is not worth the time and resources for St. Mary's or Gonzaga to be part of the C12. Imagine shipping their baseball team out to GT for games? Also I'd put BU ahead of George Mason. GT would never ever allow them into their conference and I can't see WSU a public school enter the fray the same is true about VCU. There's certain things that a private institution can keep to themselves that a state funded institution can't.

[thefish7]

I posted this elsewhere but this is my rough guess at the pecking order for this new conference:

Tier 1: Xavier, Butler
Tier 2: Dayton, St Louis, Creighton
Tier 3: Richmond
Tier Go West, Young Man: Gonzaga, St Mary's
Tier 4: VCU, St Joseph's, Wichita St, Detroit, Duquesne
Tier 5: Drake, George Mason, St Bonaventure
Tier Hope: Bradley

No way BU comes behind St Bonnie or Drake. Or Duquesne or Detroit.

[lake Camelot]

No way BU comes behind St Bonnie or Drake. Or Duquesne or Detroit.

I say BU above Richmond, and Drake. But I think Duquesne and Detroit would be higher ranked than us.

[bdhove12]

The actual pecking order has become pretty clear.
Tier 1: Xavier, Butler
Tier 2: Dayton, Creighton
Tier 3: SLU, VCU

Really just comes down to SLU or VCU for the 12th team. Outside of scenerio where Gonzaga joins, no other schools are really options.

[thefish7]

I say BU above Richmond, and Drake. But I think Duquesne and Detroit would be higher ranked than us.

Above Richmond? Richmond is pretty equivalent or more attractive, I think. Decent recent history, decent history, good market.

But St Bonaventure? What are you getting there? The incredible Olean, NY market? A good season last year? A player eligibility scandal? I don't get that one at all.

Drake, Duquesne, and Detroit, I guess you could make the market argument. But none of those programs has demonstrated anything near the fan support, money, or success that Bradley has. I agree that money is everything, but that doesn't mean market population is everything. I'd imagine the only people in Detroit who care about UDM are alums. They ARE spending on their programs, as opposed to Duquesne (who hasn't been in the tournament since 1977). Having been to a game at Drake, they're already a league below Bradley in terms of support, facilities, and I'm pretty sure their budget and revenues are lower.