Final: Bradley 55 Portland 57

[lefty]

Lefty ,if your saying you don't see Walt helping much next year unless it's going to the basket,I agree with you 100%. I can't wait for Fields to run the point but I don't see Walt being that much help on the offensive end at the 2 because of his range. Not much help outside of getting to the basket by beating his man. In order for Walt to be a factor at the 2 spot he needs to improve his shooting greatly.

He would help if our 3 and 4 man can shoot. In fact it would give you a nice balance. Walt will have the experience especially on defense that others may not have.

[SFP]

If you neuter Walt, don't you then lose those 2 or 3 plays per game that no one else can make? Do you make him a completely ineffective player on both ends of the court?

I think next year Walt has a chance to make a leap into the upper echelon of MVC players. With Fields coming off transfershirting and Bell as a more veteran PG, Walt will have a chance to make some plays off the ball to get open hopefully that he isn't able to make now.

Neuter? I never came close to that but we can afford to lose those 2-3 plays a game if it leads to smoother offensive sets. I'm worried about team chemistry. If I'm seeing the ball hawking from WL you can bet the team does as well. I'm pointing out that he should not be our PG. MJ was not the PG of The Bulls and it did not make him ineffective on either end of the floor. In order for Walt to become a 1st team MVC player he'll need to be able to at least hit a pull up jumper, not even a 3. I also believe Bell will help his game if he can adjust to moving and getting into scoring position without the ball.

I believe he needs to get his head into the games and look to pass a bit more then he does. That will make all the difference.

[SFP]

These stats say it all!

Assists per Turnover
2.4 - Dyricus Simms-Edwards
2.0 - Jake Eastman
1.0 - Tyshon Pickett
0.8 - Jalen Crawford
0.5 - Will Egolf
0.5 - Jordan Prosser
0.4 - Walt Lemon Jr.

[lefty]

These stats say it all!

Assists per Turnover
2.4 - Dyricus Simms-Edwards
2.0 - Jake Eastman
1.0 - Tyshon Pickett
0.8 - Jalen Crawford
0.5 - Will Egolf
0.5 - Jordan Prosser
0.4 - Walt Lemon Jr.

yes and no......if your team shoots in 35% range there isn't going to be much in assists.......Walt tries to make things happen and it results in a turnover but if the defense is always sagging and nobody can make a shot outside and we miss layups.....well...it hurts the assist stats.

I know I talk out of both sides of my mouth about WL....nobody frustrates me more because he is carless with the ball sometimes and exercises poor judgement other times......and yet he's more explosive than anyone else we have. And even though he missed ft's the other night he's shoot them like a PG should which is different than last year....it would really help if Will,Jake, and DSE could shoot better from outside

[Chico]

If you neuter Walt, don't you then lose those 2 or 3 plays per game that no one else can make? Do you make him a completely ineffective player on both ends of the court?

I think next year Walt has a chance to make a leap into the upper echelon of MVC players. With Fields coming off transfershirting and Bell as a more veteran PG, Walt will have a chance to make some plays off the ball to get open hopefully that he isn't able to make now.

Bell will have to have more playing time to be considered a veteran point guard.

[Bravesfan]

Geno has already brought in a true point guard for next season as has 3 good shooters with size , we need 2 more big men and we are on our way to winning many games.
I thought mostly everyone just wanted to see improvement this season which is what is happening so I don"t get what all the concern is about over why Walt Lemon jr. is playing point guard, we have no one better and Walt has helped us more then he has hurt us as we are 8-4, no doubt he makes bad decisions and too many turnovers but he gives us a better chance to win.

I agree that this year may still not be what most want. But until the new PG comes in next year, there's no reason why a change can't be made if something is not working. Try DSE or someone else at point guard if WL is having issues. What's the worst that can happen? We may end up losing more games until then, which we probably will anyway, so no harm in trying a new lineup.

Again, I'm not saying this to pick on Geno, just responding to some here who say we can't do anything until next year.

[Bravesfan]

It's fair to question why Geno chose a D-I transfer in Fields instead of a JUCO PG who could have played right away.

Also a very good point. But again, next year will be the year when I expect at least a .500 team, or better than .500 if we achieve that goal this year. So until then, I won't get on Geno's case until I see where we are by at least February of next year.

[Bravesfan]

You have to look at the 8 wins we have also and not just look at the last 2 games , no doubt he hurt us in Vegas with his poor play but like I said before we have no one right now that would be a better option.

We have tougher competition coming up for the remainder of the season. That's what worries me about WL if he gets lost out on the court. And yes, maybe Geno has evaluated everyone in practice and believes that WL at point guard give us the best chance to win. But even so, I don't think making a change would hurt. You can't always see everything that needs to be seen during the course of a practice.

[lefty]

You can't always see everything that needs to be seen during the course of a practice.

So do you mean in games then? otherwise when would you see everything....

[SFP]

yes and no......if your team shoots in 35% range there isn't going to be much in assists.......Walt tries to make things happen and it results in a turnover but if the defense is always sagging and nobody can make a shot outside and we miss layups.....well...it hurts the assist stats.

I know I talk out of both sides of my mouth about WL....nobody frustrates me more because he is carless with the ball sometimes and exercises poor judgement other times......and yet he's more explosive than anyone else we have. And even though he missed ft's the other night he's shoot them like a PG should which is different than last year....it would really help if Will,Jake, and DSE could shoot better from outside

Hey Lefty your argument regarding WL's Assist per TO ratio is off because everyone else on the team have the same people to pass to and theirs is better. I'm also not taking him out of the offensive mix, just not the person who is suppose to protect our possession of the ball. He's just not making consistent good basketball judgments.

[Da Coach]

Also, maybe the reason a team has a low shooting percentage is sometimes because their point guard doesn't get the ball to the other players in a position to make a high percentage shot. In that case, the low shooting percentage is not an excuse to absolve the PG.

[lefty]

Also, maybe the reason a team has a low shooting percentage is sometimes because their point guard doesn't get the ball to the other players in a position to make a high percentage shot. In that case, the low shooting percentage is not an excuse to absolve the PG.

yeah....it's kind of the chicken and the egg anology....a better PG gets the ball in areas for made shots..........I would say most of our shots from 3 that the players are in a good position to make them.....we just don't...

To me DC I think the low percentage is more to just not making the shots and taking forced shots....

We have missed our share of shots in the lane....3 in a row against Portland to start the game....

WL is like a good QB in a way.....you make that great pass...or in Walt's case a great play and then you think you can do it all the time(which you can't)

We need both...good PG play and good shooting...they compliment each other and make each a whole lot more effective.

[JMM28]

Assist per TO ratio

I see this stat referenced a ton around these parts. This is one of the most useless stats in all of basketball.

1. An assist is very subjective in the first place, much like an error in baseball.

2. This assist to turnover ratio implies that an assist helps as much as a turnover hurts. A TO hurts much more than an assist helps.

3. Using this stat to separate elite from non elite players is useless. All a player has to do is limit the number of turnovers he commits while picking up a cheap assist or two per game.

4. The subject that lefty brought up - that poor shooting teammates will decrease the assist to turnover ratio of the best PG in the game. Ken Pomeroy has a great stat called the Pomeroy Assist Rate. This factors in the team FG& and assists while the player is on the court.

There are so many better stats out there dealing with the already flawed assist stat.

[SFP]

I see this stat referenced a ton around these parts. This is one of the most useless stats in all of basketball.

1. An assist is very subjective in the first place, much like an error in baseball.

2. This assist to turnover ratio implies that an assist helps as much as a turnover hurts. A TO hurts much more than an assist helps.

3. Using this stat to separate elite from non elite players is useless. All a player has to do is limit the number of turnovers he commits while picking up a cheap assist or two per game.

4. The subject that lefty brought up - that poor shooting teammates will decrease the assist to turnover ratio of the best PG in the game. Ken Pomeroy has a great stat called the Pomeroy Assist Rate. This factors in the team FG& and assists while the player is on the court.

There are so many better stats out there dealing with the already flawed assist stat.

Fantastic but we're working with what we have. Can you present some of these nice stats you talk about?

[tornado]

...

BTW - This Saturday we'll see a Drake point guard, newcomer Richard Carter, who is having a good year - averaging over 10 ppg, and among the leaders in the MVC in both assists and A/Turnovers...
And he was essentially there for the picking (only 2 offers - Drake and Pine Bluff!) - he was at Cloud County CC and averaged 19 ppg/5.3 apg his sophomore season- he's arguably already demonstrating he's one of the best PG's in the Valley and he had almost no other offers...so how does Drake figure this out & other teams that need a PG miss on him?

Unless some newcomer in the Valley goes for 40 this weekend - the Newcomer of the Week this week has got to be Richard Carter..
he singlehandedly took down Creighton with a tremendous 2nd half for the Drake guard