Bottom of a big conference or top of a middle/lower conference?

[Bravesfan]

If your goal is something other than trying to be better, I think you're doing it wrong. I think Bradley could do well in a "better" conference. Can't fear success.

I don't know though. Gonzaga and Butler have shown that being the king of a smaller mountain can actually be more beneficial than being an lower or middle tier team out of a stronger conference. Just ask DePaul and Northwestern how things have gone as a BCS member all these years.

[Bravesfan]

I agree with this. However, if Bradley does at some point end up in a hybrid, basketball only version of the MVC/Horizon/Summit leagues, then you also can't fear taking a run at being the next Butler.

I think that's what those of us who might be a little hesitant to see Bradley in a stronger conference are thinking. Obviously if we stay in the MVC V2.0, I don't think anyone disagrees that we have to elevate ourselves into the next Butler or Creighton. I think it would make things a little easier, but obviously there is less margin for error with any future form of the MVC most likely a one bid conference, unless they're lucky to snag a Butler type team that was left out in the cold.

[SFP]

I don't know though. Gonzaga and Butler have shown that being the king of a smaller mountain can actually be more beneficial than being an lower or middle tier team out of a stronger conference. Just ask DePaul and Northwestern how things have gone as a BCS member all these years.

If DePaul and NW did not like their position they could have pulled out! It is as simple as that. The conference with the better brand gives you a foot up in recruiting. DePaul's failure has nothing to do with the conference and NW has everything to do with the style and a bit of the type of kids they can recruit. If they decide to recruit and give scholarships like Duke and Stanford they would be much better off. I give BU a ton more value and potential then you do!

[Bravesfan]

Move up. That's where the money will be in the future. Increased stature for the university as a whole.

And with a split within D1 looming, you have to go as high as you can go before it comes.

Also, the DePaul situation only happens when you have incompetent coaches and a lack of committment. That won't happen at Bradley.

Good point regarding DePaul. They are a "major" program with a mid-major philosophy, and they rank near the bottom of the current Big East in terms of their athletic department budget. Hopefully Bradley commits to allocating more money towards athletics irregardless of where they end up.

[SFP]

Good point regarding DePaul. They are a "major" program with a mid-major philosophy, and they rank near the bottom of the current Big East in terms of their athletic department budget. Hopefully Bradley commits to allocating more money towards athletics irregardless of where they end up.

Can only commit the revenue they generate. Its what you do with it that counts. DePaul has not been too astute. They are looking at building a new arena though close to their campus. If that happens that will be a great benefit for them.

On another note the C7 will be looking for schools that have their own arena. They ave said as much. The reason is that sharing your arena with a professional team really throws a wrench in scheduling. That is one reason I'm betting we have played a few games at the Ren Col.

[Bravesfan]

If DePaul and NW did not like their position they could have pulled out! It is as simple as that. The conference with the better brand gives you a foot up in recruiting. DePaul's failure has nothing to do with the conference and NW has everything to do with the style and a bit of the type of kids they can recruit. If they decide to recruit and give scholarships like Duke and Stanford they would be much better off. I give BU a ton more value and potential then you do!

Well again, I hope BU is able to make a move up into a better conference as it definitely will help their recruiting, and will make for much more attractive opponents at Carver Arena. But I just don't think it's a realistic possiblity at the moment due to factors way beyond their control. That's why I think it's just as important to show that there are programs who have obtained just as much national success while residing in somewhat weaker conferences. Bradley and anyone else in the Valley needs to prepare themselves for either scenerio and how things will play out once all the dominoes fall into place. But the important thing is that even if Bradley ends up staying in a slightly weaker conference, they still have every opportunity to build their program into a national power since I believe they will be better able to commit to doing so than the DePaul's of the world. And I think Gonzaga, Butler, Creighton and Xavier amongst others have shown it can be done even within the lesser conferences.

[braveatheart]

OK, I will take the bait.
Don't sell your soul for money. Not that any of the conferences organized around media markets would want us anyway.
Find a conference made up of your regional peers. A confernce with natural rivalries. I would say the best thing going right now is the MVC. However you could sure dream up something better. But loyalty goes both ways. Maybe we are lucky to be in the MVC.
We are in a pretty good conference for us. Let's just try to dominate the MVC and be happy with that.

[SFP]

Shoot for the moon is what I've been taught and if life gives you a lemon you make lemonade. I'm just not into a discussion of being in a lesser conference because the alternative may haunt us for a long long time. This is not the time to talk about lesser conferences.

BTW I'll hold the administration accountable for the outcome. This is a fluid situation I'd have to believe with the money and media potential this will all be put together the next 6-8 months.

[Bravesfan]

OK, I will take the bait.
Don't sell your soul for money. Not that any of the conferences organized around media markets would want us anyway.
Find a conference made up of your regional peers. A confernce with natural rivalries. I would say the best thing going right now is the MVC. However you could sure dream up something better. But loyalty goes both ways. Maybe we are lucky to be in the MVC.
We are in a pretty good conference for us. Let's just try to dominate the MVC and be happy with that.

Are you being serious, or satirical?

[Bravesfan]

Shoot for the moon is what I've been taught and if life gives you a lemon you make lemonade. I'm just not into a discussion of being in a lesser conference because the alternative may haunt us for a long long time. This is not the time to talk about lesser conferences.

BTW I'll hold the administration accountable for the outcome. This is a fluid situation I'd have to believe with the money and media potential this will all be put together the next 6-8 months.

No, you are right SFP. Maybe I am settling for less than we can be. I'm just more or less speculating on what may happen. We can pledge as much funding and great recruiting as we want. We can plead that despite our small tv market we still are deserving of a spot in the new Catholic 7 conference, especially if we promise to do whatever it takes to make us into an annual tournament contender. And we can promise the great fans of our team that playing in a better conference will make for more interesting opponents to come into Carver Arena on an annual basis, something which is rare right now. And you are right SFP, I was raised exactually the same way, and I don't want to sell myself short on that type of philosophy.

But I also recongnize that the way big time college sports are run these days, working hard and shooting for the moon does not always guarantee success when you have a very unfair playing field. Hard work pays off if everyone gets an equal chance to compete. I'm not sure the powers that be at this new conference have Bradley's best interests in mind, and that has nothing to even do with our recent on court performance. It's all about dollars and facilities and geography and the "big boys" mentallity that runs college sports these days. That's why I keep saying that even if we are forced to stay in the same level of a conference we have been these past decades, that does not mean we have to abandon those principles of hard work and shooting for the moon even within the confines of a revamped MVC.

I totally agree that we should throw everything we have in our power at getting into the new conference in order to try to get into a better situation, if for no other reason than to protect us from a potential D1 split that will most likely occur within the next decade or so. But if this does not work out for us (latching onto a strong private school conference that is), we still do have options left, even if that means rebuilding the Valley into a conference with the best of the rest. I think teams like Oral Roberts, Detroit, Valpo, Drake and even a Loyola and/or UIC would not kill Bradley's chances of becoming a strong program with national aspirations. But sometimes shooting for the moon can mean more than one strategy, and it will be up to the Catholic 7 to make the next move. All we can do is be ready for whichever way will open up for us.

[braveatheart]

Are you being serious, or satirical?

Serious

[Bravesfan]

Serious

That's what I thought. And I don't think there is anything wrong with going this route if all other avenues are closed to us. We should shoot high, but as I stated above, we know how big time college sports work, and I'm being realistic here.

[braveatheart]

I understand your thinking. And of course we have not been invited to anything yet. I just look at Boise State in football who for years couldn't wait to get invited to the Mountain West Conference. That was a perfect conference for them. Great geographic rivalries with games close enough that fans could go to some road games. Two years ago they finally get into the MWC.
Then the Big East comes calling and BSU has visions of huge TV dollars. Never mind that there will never be a logical rivalry or that fans can't travel to road games or that the other school sports have to find a different lesser conference. Of course now we see what has happened to the Big East. I am sure BSU has some second thoughts at this point. I mean really? Boise State in an East coast conference. Of course the Catholic 7 thought is was crazy too.
Lets just not sell our souls for money. Lets look at what is a logical fit. That is all I am saying.

[Beninator]

Interesting topic. My thoughts is that we should attempt to move up if possible. At this time, I do not think that the opportunity is there for us for a couple of reasons. Therefore, I think what we need to do is to meet with other schools in the MVC and use this strength in numbers approach to pressure the MVC Commissioner to try to bring in more quality schools to the MVC.

--I will freely admit that I have not kept up with what the MVC is currently doing but interested to hear everyone's feedback on this--

[Bravesfan]

I understand your thinking. And of course we have not been invited to anything yet. I just look at Boise State in football who for years couldn't wait to get invited to the Mountain West Conference. That was a perfect conference for them. Great geographic rivalries with games close enough that fans could go to some road games. Two years ago they finally get into the MWC.
Then the Big East comes calling and BSU has visions of huge TV dollars. Never mind that there will never be a logical rivalry or that fans can't travel to road games or that the other school sports have to find a different lesser conference. Of course now we see what has happened to the Big East. I am sure BSU has some second thoughts at this point. I mean really? Boise State in an East coast conference. Of course the Catholic 7 thought is was crazy too.
Lets just not sell our souls for money. Lets look at what is a logical fit. That is all I am saying.

I agree. Great points!