Grades for Valley Teams (early December)

[Bravesfan]

Know I'm beating a dead horse here, but I get a little tired of comments about the crowd getting into the game. At the Michigan game the crowd was as great as any I have seen at Carver, until the timeouts started. During the first timeout I though Arthur Murray was going to come out dancing to the music the band played. And with all the promotions after that the crowd was denied a chance to stay in the game. Darn, I didn't win a free taco, who's cares. My section didn't win a free pizza, who cares. The kid I was rooting for as he raced down the court trying to put on a uniform didn't win, who cares.

Well that was against Michigan. The crowd needs to get as loud against Georgia Southern as they did against Michigan. That's all I was saying.

And I've made many comments about the promotions during timeouts. I think they greatly distract from the momemtum of the crowd, and while I understand most venues do these same type of promotions, they don't need to do them all throughout the game. The first half would be a more preferable time if they need to do these.

[Chico]

Well that was against Michigan. The crowd needs to get as loud against Georgia Southern as they did against Michigan. That's all I was saying.

And I've made many comments about the promotions during timeouts. I think they greatly distract from the momemtum of the crowd, and while I understand most venues do these same type of promotions, they don't need to do them all throughout the game. The first half would be a more preferable time if they need to do these.

You and I both know the crowd won't be the same for every opponent, but my point is no matter who the opponent is, when the crowd is into the game don't shut them up. Don't believe Bradley University is hurting that much for revenue.

[Bravesfan]

You and I both know the crowd won't be the same for every opponent, but my point is no matter who the opponent is, when the crowd is into the game don't shut them up. Don't believe Bradley University is hurting that much for revenue.

Agreed on all counts. Nothing kills the momentum of a big Bradley run during a timeout by having two people from the crowd shooting baskets for a pizza! These promotions should not be allowed during the second half when the game is on the line.

Now of course the crowd won't be the same for every opponent, but they can still be loud even if we are playing the local community college versus a Michigan or Creighton type team.

[SFP]

Maybe on another thread we should start a Bradley Fan Manifesto What makes a great fan and what needs to happen in our venue to create the best experience possible.

[Future Walk-On]

I love how we are "arguing" over an arbitrary A-F grading scale....



ARE YOU SERIOUS? a B.....BS it is atleast a B+ if not A-

[tornado]

we can debate the MVC's grades all we want but if anything is going to affect the way the MVC is perceived nationally - it would be that our teams HAVE TO start beating the teams in the power conferences/major conference and beating teams that are perceived to be better than our teams.

Thus far I don't think the MVC even has ONE win where our guy beat a team that currently has a higher RPI and is from a major conference
..in fact we haven't really even beat many quality mid-majors - the Selection Committee of course sees all that...

If you want to say UNI just beat George Mason - I might grant that George Mason is a team with a winning record but they no longer have a Top 50 RPI and UNI has an RPI & SOS that are both hideous.
I just don't what among all our wins in the MVC are going to impress anyone save for what Creighton & Wichita have done.
With all due respect to Doug Elgin and I understand he's doing a great job hyping the Valley, but we are at best a two bid league.
The only way we get more is if there are some awfully weak teams on the bubble come March...

[LittleBrave]

Maybe on another thread we should start a Bradley Fan Manifesto What makes a great fan and what needs to happen in our venue to create the best experience possible.

I agree SFP! This thread has been dethreaded from how it started. Wish more people would stay on topic. Your bringing up the Braves report card was on topic - just people dragged it out and now it's a thread about our fans.

This thread deserves an F.

[LittleBrave]

With all due respect to Doug Elgin and I understand he's doing a great job hyping the Valley, but we are at best a two bid league.
The only way we get more is if there are some awfully weak teams on the bubble come March...

What about automatic bid for Valley Champ (other than CU or WSU)?

The grades I gave just days ago will probably be a bit different.
What's pulling the league down is teams like Indy (blue), Drake, and Evansville not taking care of business at home. I can't fault Indy St. for their loss at home to a ranked opponent (N. Mexico), especially as it seems they have no depth this year, but Drake and Evansville losing by double-digits at home in the past week is unacceptable.
I really overestimated these 2 schools - thinking they might be up there with ISU-red and UNI.

Creighton and Wichita are doing what they need to do - not many marquee wins, but solid wins. They both deserve an "A", and Creighton has lived up to its billing despite their 1-game lapse.
The best LOSS of the year was the Redbirds loss at Louisville, but then they lost at home to Wyoming, which could have put them in a good position, and would have been the 2nd or 3rd best win in the league so far.

[LittleBrave]

The Valley has made a little noise this weekend with Indy. St. and Wichita St. winning vs. decent teams, and a nice win from UNI today over St. Mary's.
A win last night for BU would have been great for the Valley, but oh well.

A little too late for some teams, but at least we're looking a bit better going into conference play.

Throw out Missouri St. and you're lookin' at a lot of close games from the 4-9 spots this year.

[Bravesfan]

The Valley has made a little noise this weekend with Indy. St. and Wichita St. winning vs. decent teams, and a nice win from UNI today over St. Mary's.
A win last night for BU would have been great for the Valley, but oh well.

A little too late for some teams, but at least we're looking a bit better going into conference play.

Throw out Missouri St. and you're lookin' at a lot of close games from the 4-9 spots this year.

I think UNI's win against St. Mary's keeps them at least in the discussion for an NCAA Tournament spot if they finish at least second in the Valley and they make it to the Valley Tournament finals. But they better hope George Mason wins the very weak CAA, and that St. Mary's strongly challanges Gonzaga in the WCC. UNI also better split their games against Creighton and Wichita St.

Btw, when I say "in the discussion", I don't think they have much of a chance at an at-large bid, but they could be mentioned as one of the last 8 teams out.

CU and WSU have done all they could and will both be easily in the tournament provided WSU can overcome their recent injuries. Easier said than done. ISU's win over Dayton puts them in better shape than UNI if they could finish at least second in the Valley regular season.

Basically three teams from the Valley will get in if someone other than CU and WSU win the Valley tournament (and WSU can overcome their injuries). The only other possibility for three teams would be ISU finishing at least second in the regular season (and assuming WSU finishes tied for second or a very strong third) and making it into the Valley tournament finals. I actually think that unlike last year ISU could get an at-large bid even without winning the Valley tourney, but most likely a "first four" bid. But heck, that worked for VCU a couple of years ago!

I might be a bit over optimistic here, but if CU and WSU can at least both stay ranked for parts of the season, the committee may value quality wins against conference opponents a little bit more than usual.

Regarding Bradley's grade, definitely a B- (would have been a B+ had they pulled the VT game out last night). But considering where they were last year at this time, not a bad improvement. I do believe though that last night's game has exposed our deficiencies a bit more, which is why the Valley season may be a bit of a struggle again. That said, 7 or more wins would still be a nice bump up from last year, and should give their fans a reason to show up to more games. This team will be nothing if a lot more entertaining and competitive to watch.

[tornado]

Here's a very good MVC assessment but I don't think Creighton is gonna cruise thru 18 games easily...

http://www.omaha.com/article/20121224/BLUEJAYS/712249910/1707

[tornado]

Here's a UNI Panther fan who posts a good eval of the MVC...
can't argue much except he has UNI a little higher than I'd have them

Here is how I see the Valley--

1. Creighton (15-3)- The Jays are a heavy favorite, but don't count out a February swoon. Dougie and Etch-a-sketch might be enough to overcome the deficit on the bench.

2. UNI (14-4)- I see this team like the 08-09 team. The St Marys game delivered confidence and a huge distraction is gone (a la Jon Montgomery)

3. Wichita State (13-5)- This team will be very good come February. How quickly do Hall and Baker get back to full strength?

4. Illinois State (11-7)- Carmichael and Brown are legit, but having a first time head coach leading you through the Valley will lead to inconsistencies, especially on the road.

5. Indiana State (9-9)- They will go as far as Odum and Arop take them. Playing as hard as they do does pay off and Lansing is very underrated on the bench.

6. Evansville (9-9)- As Colt Ryan goes, so go the Aces

7. Bradley (8-10)- Athletic and Geno Ford understands their weaknesses. Key will be getting enough mid-range production for an awful perimeter shooting team.

8. Drake (6-12)- This should be enough to end the Mark Phelps era. Constant underachieving and a team that just doesn't play hard all the time.

9. Southern Illinois (5-13)- Progress is evident, but they haven't beaten anyone of substance. Barry Hinson is getting the most out of the talent he has.

10. Missouri State (0-18 )- The Bears take the 0fer. They can't afford to buy out Lusk and things are just going to get worse. Huge mistake in firing Barrry Hinson and Cuonzo didn't recruit a sole. This would have happened three years ago if Barry hadn't left Kyle Weems behind.

http://www.panthernation.com/showthread.php?p=337881


Interesting how almost all the top teams in the Valleyhave built themselves using largely D-I transfers from other schools!
It apparently is becoming the way to go!!

-I think Greg McDermott's recruiting prowess is a bit overrated to this point - as 2 of Creighton's three best players are D-I transfers -
Greg Echenique came from Rutgers, Grant Gibbs came from Gonzaga. Even Doug McDermott did not go to the school his dad was at (Iowa State) - but instead verballed and signed to UNI and then reneged and transferred his committment to Creighton.
We'll see how good of a coach McDermott is next year if his son, Doug, leaves for the NBA this season - and both Gibbs & Enchnique graduate.

-Wichita cashes in every year or two on decent D-I transfers - and seemingly get mentioned as a possible destination for almost every D-I kid who's looking to transfer...
Malcolm Armstead transferred from Oregon - plus they have 6 different juco transfers plus just lost Raglad & Ancreon as well..

-ISU has always been a veritable Transfer U - always in the market for every D-I transfer - the latest one really hurt them (Geoffrey Allen)
Just a short list include...Bryant Allen, Geoffrey Allen, Trey Blue, Landon Shipley, Sead Odzic, Champ Oguchi, plus Wilkins and a couple dozen other recent juco transfers

-Drake has been hurt by transfer losses (Rayvonte Rice, Josh Parker) but also have landed a few incoming D-I transfers (Jordan Clarke, Chris Hines, Kraidon Woods, Ryan Wedel, Adam Templeton)

-UNI just landed Wes Washpun transferring from Tennessee, and have always done well with the juco kids thay've had (Ali Farokhmanesh)

-Indiana State - one of their best players, Manny Arop is a Gonzaga transfer, but transfers Dwayne Lathan, Jake Kelly, Josh Crawford have all been key Sycamore playerstransfers

-even the two BCS schools that Indiana State beat in Hawaii (Ole Miss & Miami-Larkin, Jones, Grant) have built their teams with D-I transfers - especially Ole Miss - their top 3 players are D-I transfers

-Even SIU got largely into the D-I transfer sweepstakes with Desmar Jackson, Diamond Taylor, Tony Freeman, etc...even Anthony Beane had signed elsewhere and SIU recruited him & his dad away from ISU...but it has cost them with stability issues....they've had tons of players transfer out also...

-I know BU has a couple D-I transfers waiting in the wings - but can anyone recall the last time a true D-I transfer played even a significant minute at Bradley?
Was it Curtis Stuckey?? If you want to count Dodie - go ahead but he came from juco...
Evansville is the only other MVC school that hasn't lusted after transfers (except Bryan Bouchie a couple years ago and that flopped)



edit - here's another mid-season Valley "report card"

http://dalydoseofhoops.blogspot.com/2012/12/midseason-valley-report-cards_28.html

[SFP]

I do not care where our players come from as long as they can shoot and play D. Also the amount of D1 players transferring is at an all time high and they need to land somewhere. This is the sign of the times.

[JMM28]

I do not care where our players come from as long as they can shoot and play D. Also the amount of D1 players transferring is at an all time high and they need to land somewhere. This is the sign of the times.

Agreed. The transfer numbers have gone way up recently. I would rather take a transfer from a BCS school, like Fields, than bank that scholarship or reach on a fringey prospect that might not play for the year anyways.

[tornado]

Drake is apparently getting another D-I transfer

http://blogs.desmoinesregister.com/dmr/index.php/2012/12/07/boston-college-point-guard-daniels-looks-to-be-heading-to-drake/viewart

Jordan Daniels was the primary point guard for Boston College in the ACC last year as a freshman - but appears to have lost his starting spot and
has decided to take his game to the MVC and is transferring to Drake - should be eligible by mid-season next year...
Drake will have a glut at PG with Richard Carter, Micah Mason, Karl Madison, Gary Ricks, and even a couple other guys who can play PG.

...but thing could change - as all four of the TOP four threads going currently on the Drake message board are calling loudly for Drake head coach Mark Phelps to be fired.