Valley RPI

[tornado]

yeah -- cpac we get it -- this year is payback for all those years & decades that ISU was at the bottom of the RPI & SOS while BU was making it to the Sweet Sixteen...
..but even then - during all those seasons - I still never went onto the ISU board and posted smack...

[JMM28]

Still alittle early for RPI's, but here it is for fun (#'s from Warren Nolan) :

RPI's

Wichita State 18
Creighton 26
Illlinois State 47
SOI 112
Bradley 137
Drake 173
UNI 180
Evansville 181
Indiana State 188
Mo State 276


SOS

Illinois State 28
Mo State 46
Creighton 65
Wichita State 105
Drake 125
Evansville 187
Indy State 207
SIU 219
UNI 243
Bradley 270

End of January is the time when RPI really starts to matter. Still a month early or so.

[Bravesfan]

Ex-Valley coach Cuonzo Martin suddenly finds himself in HOT WATER with the legion of Tennessee Volunteer fans...

spoiled by the Bruce Pearl successes - the UT fans want to see some wins..
and yet after a couple years of landing 4-Star and even 5-Star stud recruits....and having some holdover blue-chippers from Bruce Pearl...
Cuonzo is doing horribly.......

right after scoring only 36 and losing to Georgetown...
Tennesse only puts 38 on the board against a mediocre Virginia team and gets hammered again!
Virginia even played very poorly and tried to give this game away - shooting only 35% and just 12% from 3-pt
This is the 3rd loss where they've scored 45 pts or less, and despite a lot of really cushy cupcakes on their schedule they're averaging only 61.4 ppg - and that could drop when they get into tough SEC play!

http://www.utsports.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2012-2013/ut1205.html

the two busiest threads on their message boards are "Cuonzo has to go"...then a discussion on who should replace him...

and the thread titled
"When does Bruce Pearl's show cause penalty end" .. asking when is Pearl's NCAA penalty over so they can hire him back ASAP and get rid of Cuonzo.

You can't bring a "mid-major" coaching philosophy to the big time leagues and not get into trouble. Ask how well Bill Carmondy is doing at Northwestern with his Princeton style offense. Ask Bruce Weber how well he did with decent recruits with his coaching philosophy. Ask Cuonzo how well he is doing.

My point is the best coaches that come from the low to mid-major coaching ranks are the ones that are able to adapt their coaching style to the talent they have. I think if someone like Shaka Smart made the jump to a higher level, he would do very well. Even Geno Ford would probably do well with his aggressive offensive style if he has the right players to be able to perform it.

One of the few programs where the weave (no offense Les or any other coaches who use it) or Princeton offense would probably work is for Wisconsin, though even there they recruit better athletes than one would usually see at the mid-major level.

I wish Cuonzo luck with the season still be very young, but hopefully he puts together some wins quickly, if for no other reason than not to see Bruce Pearl return to coaching!

[Bravesfan]

Props to ISU for helping to boost the Valley RPI...it's a nice change

How in the heck does ISU have a 47 RPI while UNI has a 180 RPI?! I thought UNI played a ton more games against tougher opponents than ISU did. Yes, ISU's SOS is much better this year, but it can't hold a candle to UNI's. What's going on here?!

[cpacmel]

yeah -- cpac we get it -- this year is payback for all those years & decades that ISU was at the bottom of the RPI & SOS while BU was making it to the Sweet Sixteen...

As you T, Bradley has finished ahead of ISU just one time in the last 5 years, when it comes to RPI. (2010/11 Bradley had an RPI of 235 to ISU's RPI of 255). Outside of that year, ISU's RPI was 37, 47, 76 and 99. Compared to 105, 98, 105, and 264.

..but even then - during all those seasons - I still never went onto the ISU board and posted smack...

Simply posting the ENTIRE MVC RPI and SOS is now posting SMACK....

Da Coach posted the same thing I did on 12/3. I just updated his numbers 9 days later.

[cpacmel]

How in the heck does ISU have a 47 RPI while UNI has a 180 RPI?! I thought UNI played a ton more games against tougher opponents than ISU did. Yes, ISU's SOS is much better this year, but it can't hold a candle to UNI's. What's going on here?!

SOS is judged top to bottom.

Here is the bottom of UNI's to date:

Northern Colorado (0-6) RPI 292
North Dakota (0-6) RPI 302
UW-Mil (2-7) RPI 314

Compare it to ISU's bottom to date:

FDU (4-5) RPI 129
Del State (3-5) RPI 204
Drexel (3-6) RPI 228

ISU's SOS is gonna drop because of games coming up with Morgan State (RPI 272) and Austin Peay (266)

[tornado]

I know, I know cpac -- we won't be down forever so kick us now while you can --

[Bravesfan]

As you T, Bradley has finished ahead of ISU just one time in the last 5 years, when it comes to RPI. (2010/11 Bradley had an RPI of 235 to ISU's RPI of 255). Outside of that year, ISU's RPI was 37, 47, 76 and 99. Compared to 105, 98, 105, and 264.



Simply posting the ENTIRE MVC RPI and SOS is now posting SMACK....

Da Coach posted the same thing I did on 12/3. I just updated his numbers 9 days later.

I'm more than willing to bet that Bradley played better quality opponents in every one of those seasons than ISU did, despite the over RPI numbers. I guess that means ISU didn't play quite as many scrubs, though with all the SWAC teams they were playing, I'm not sure how the numbers lined up like that.

[Bravesfan]

SOS is judged top to bottom.

Here is the bottom of UNI's to date:

Northern Colorado (0-6) RPI 292
North Dakota (0-6) RPI 302
UW-Mil (2-7) RPI 314

Compare it to ISU's bottom to date:

FDU (4-5) RPI 129
Del State (3-5) RPI 204
Drexel (3-6) RPI 228

ISU's SOS is gonna drop because of games coming up with Morgan State (RPI 272) and Austin Peay (266)

Well in a way, I can see why the BCS pundits are trying to devalue the RPI. It is one of the better indicators of SOS and winning percentage, but it still is deeply flawed at times. Yes, ISU's bottom feeders may be less bad than UNI's, but again, UNI is the team that played games against the BCS, not ISU. And that's what will matter the most come selection time. In other words, the whole body of work, not just who they played at the bottom.

[cpacmel]

I'm more than willing to bet that Bradley played better quality opponents in every one of those seasons than ISU did, despite the over RPI numbers. I guess that means ISU didn't play quite as many scrubs, though with all the SWAC teams they were playing, I'm not sure how the numbers lined up like that.

Let me ask you this, would you prefer to have a better RPI or a better SOS?

And as I am sure you know, RPI has strength of schedule as part of it's formula.

[cpacmel]

Well in a way, I can see why the BCS pundits are trying to devalue the RPI. It is one of the better indicators of SOS and winning percentage, but it still is deeply flawed at times. Yes, ISU's bottom feeders may be less bad than UNI's, but again, UNI is the team that played games against the BCS, not ISU. And that's what will matter the most come selection time. In other words, the whole body of work, not just who they played at the bottom.

ISU has played just as many BCS schools to date as UNI.

ISU and UNI both played Louisville. UNI on a Neutral court and ISU @ Louisville.

ISU played Northwestern (7-3 rpi 69) on a Neutral Court.

UNI played Stanford (6-3 rpi 92) on a Neutral Court.

[TheAsianSensation]

ISU did a better job of cupcake consumption this year.

Remember, UNI has an Iowa/UNLV/St Mary's stretch coming up. Their SoS will be fine.

[braveatheart]

So ISU has an new coach that maybe schedules a little harder. Good for them, they needed it. With our rebuild, we needed to schedule a little softer this year. Good for us.
When it is all said and done though they are still ISU, too bad for them.

[Bravesfan]

Let me ask you this, would you prefer to have a better RPI or a better SOS?

And as I am sure you know, RPI has strength of schedule as part of it's formula.

Definitely SOS, as the RPI has been proven a roll of the dice over the past decade (just ask Barry Hinson).

Here's a hypothetical situation. Team A plays 20 sub 300 RPI teams, 5 top 50 RPI teams, and 5 teams in the middle. They go 3-2 against the RPI top 50 and 25-5 overall for an RPI of 70 due to their soft schedule.

Team B plays 2 top 50 RPI teams, 20 teams below 300 and 8 teams from 100 to 300. They go 0-2 against the RPI top 50 teams, and win all the others, and finish with an RPI of 40 due to their great winning percentage.

Now which team is more deserving of a spot in the NCAA Tournament? I would definitely say for Team A because they showed they can beat the better teams more consistently than Team B, something that their RPI numbers would not have been able to show us unless the entire body of work is examined further.

In this example, I would say both are deserving of the tournament (Team B due to their consistent winning like say, Murray State last year). But I am just using this example to show how misleading the RPI's seem, especially now considering UNI will have more opportunities for top 50 wins than ISU will have from here on out. I think the bottom feeders influence the RPI to a point where we lose sight of what the teams have done against other NCAA Tournament contenders.

[Bravesfan]

ISU has played just as many BCS schools to date as UNI.

ISU and UNI both played Louisville. UNI on a Neutral court and ISU @ Louisville.

ISU played Northwestern (7-3 rpi 69) on a Neutral Court.

UNI played Stanford (6-3 rpi 92) on a Neutral Court.

Well, both played the same number of BCS schools for now, but UNI has more opportunities coming up (and I'm including high-majors like UNLV in this example as well). That said, all things equal, I think the RPI is skewing too much towards the bottom feeders that both teams have played, and seems to be punishing UNI much more than it should be. However, with UNLV, Iowa, St. Mary's and Wichita St. coming up for UNI, look for their RPI to shoot up quite a bit by the end of the month. And I think by the end of the year, UNI will have the higher non-conference RPI when all is said and done, unless they lose these two games coming up. Then that's a different story.