Bradley branding and mascot

[Rusty 54]

Can anyone tell me what year our name "officially" became the braves?


This is being lead by liberal minded admins who just got here and want to change the whole school.

Former BU Pres. Broski said it was 1937

http://www.bradleybraves.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=3400&ATCLID=271847

[Rusty 54]

I think our nickname is important. I know everyone gets sick of BCS comparisons, but Big 10 and SEC nicknames go back to the early 1900's in most cases.

LSU: Our nickname goes back to the civil war
BU: We got our nickname from surveys and focus groups

My opinion: I don't want to change our nickname for the sake of changing our nickname. Lions and Eagles are overdone, unless there is a special connection somewhere that I don't see BU having. Gargoyles aren't unique enough to BU or enough of a part of Bradley's history to warrant the nickname. Maybe people talk about gargoyles and I just haven't heard it outside of BU stories in the alumni newsletters.

Accountability, Courage, Diligence, Integrity, Respect, Tradition, Victory, Honor, Glory, Excellence. All values I think most could agree with. I have no idea which of those a gargoyle represents.

[Gary the Gargoyle]

Although Bradley won the right to maintain the name Braves, others changed when the NCAA pressured them and it didn't seem to negatively affect the identity of those universities. The example that always comes to mind for me is Marquette moving from Warriors to Golden Eagles.

For the record, I wouldn't change it, but I wanted to point out that others did, and they seem to be doing just fine.

[Da Coach]

Although Bradley won the right to maintain the name Braves, others changed when the NCAA pressured them and it didn't seem to negatively affect the identity of those universities. The example that always comes to mind for me is Marquette moving from Warriors to Golden Eagles.

For the record, I wouldn't change it, but I wanted to point out that others did, and they seem to be doing just fine.

For the record- Marquette did see a backlash when their name change was imposed, and many of their alumni and supporters still hold their grudges. There were alumni who claimed they would stop or cut back their donations. We'll never know how much, if any, that might have happened, since Marquette is a private institution, and does not report such things publically. But I know a couple Marquette alumni who refuse to donate because of this. It has probably cost them millions.

Here is more evidence the name change did hurt them, and may still be hurting them. Ten years after the change, a high ranking member of the board of trustees of Marquette University (the vice chairman) spoke at their graduation ceremony, and he promised that he and another member of the board of trustees would each donate $1 million apiece if Marquette would change back to the Warriors.

http://www.thebatt.com/2.8485/marquette-offered-2-million-to-change-name-back-to-warriors-1.1205164

Here is another article reporting that some prominent alumni still refuse to donate because of the name change.

http://thewarrior.org/2010/11/10/jump-around/

Students still chant Warriors at their games, and unauthorized and unofficial Marquette Warriors t-shirts and apparel are still widely available and are big sellers (though the university gets nothing from this).

So after 18 years, there is still animosity and lost revenue because of Marquette's name change, and similar things have happened at St. Johns, and other schools. Can Bradley afford this kind of backlash, and long lasting animosity?

[tornado]

wow - just a crude estimate would easily place the total figure that Marquette has LOST due to the change from Warriors has to be in the five to tens of millions of $$!


Ten years ago UMass proposed changing their mascot & logo from the Minutemen (and Minutewomen - believe it or not) to the Grey Wolves -
They hired research firms, did surveys, and tried out other possible replacements....the backlash was SUFFICIENT to override the University's move...

Here's a description of basically what the school said at the time...
"..the Minuteman is white, male, and carries a rifle for purposes of shooting
other humans, which makes him the iconic representation of the worst that
America has to offer.... Worse, this white male potential-murderer is actually
held up as a positive symbol, someone to be admired."

Here's just one page of message board posts & note how many people have passionate objections and are really angry about any change!

http://umasshoops.com/news/2003-04/mascot_idea_comments20030508.htm

..note the guy who says he, like MANY OTHERS, will QUIT giving and donating if they make the change....
"Keep the Minuteman. If not, add me to the list of former donors and fans"


Even to this day - the UMass people refer to the 2003 thing as the "Grey Wolf fiasco" -

http://maroonmusket.com/2012/05/new-lids-how-should-umass-change-its-look/

BTW - Sports Illustrated did their own research and surveys a few years back - one thing they found was that 87% of Native Americans did NOT object to sports teams using Native American imagery -- and the percentage that strongly objected was well down in single digits.

[tornado]

Wow- here's another example that just blows me away...

At University of North Dakota - a donor named Ralph Engelstad was willing to give a $100 MILLION donation but only if their "Fighting Sioux" nickname was retained!!!
This may well consitute one of the largest single donations ever given to any school in all of history...


He specified he'd give the money only...
"under the condition that the
Fighting Sioux name and logo were retained."

http://www.theralph.com/the-ralph/the-new-ralph

now that they are retiring the nickname it will almost surely cost the school MILLIONS...the issue is still not entirely resolved...

http://www.und.edu/org/bridges/dearchuck.html

Ralph writes....
"As I am sure you realize, the commitment I made to the university of North Dakota was,
I believe, one of the 10 largest ever made to a school of higher education, but if it is not completed,
I am sure it will be the number one building never brought to completion at a school of higher education,
due to your changing the logo and the slogan.

You need to think how changing this logo and slogan will affect not just the few that are urging the name change,
but also how it will affect the university as a while, the students, the city of Grand forks, and the state of North Dakota.

If the logo and slogan are not approved by the above-mentioned date, I will then write a letter on December 30, 2000,
to all contractors and to everybody associated with the arena, canceling their construction contracts for the completion of the arena."


He kept his word - his (and his foundation's - now that he has passed away) donations were cancelled and thus the school lost $65 MILLION!!!

[wizard1]

Bradley branding & Mascot

Changing the name "Braves" to anything else would be super dumb. Doing this would cost the University $$, erode whatever fan base remains, damage the Bradley image nationally since we are known across the USA as the "Braves", and anger most alumni. I would implore the ill-advised BU people who are pushing these changes to leave things alone---You are hurting our school.
If you want to help, work hard to rebuild the mens B. Ball program back to a national power. Winning can solve most of our image/reputation problems. Butler, Gonzaga, Xavier, Creighton, et al are the role models for where we need to go and what we want to be. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

[LG281]

Is it impossible to have the nickname "BRAVES" and have a Gargoyle as our mascot?

FWIW - my grandfather and father have told lots of stories of their time on campus and those gargoyles. Something about them whistling every time virgin co-eds would pass beneath them.

There was even a story about them either fighting the 1963 fire (or starting it...I can't remember which). Been a while since I heard that one.

Wonder if any of our elder alums can remember any of those stories or if there is any other "lore" that would help to tie them to campus even further.

[BUFanatic]

Is it impossible to have the nickname "BRAVES" and have a Gargoyle as our mascot?

FWIW - my grandfather and father have told lots of stories of their time on campus and those gargoyles. Something about them whistling every time virgin co-eds would pass beneath them.

There was even a story about them either fighting the 1963 fire (or starting it...I can't remember which). Been a while since I heard that one.

Wonder if any of our elder alums can remember any of those stories or if there is any other "lore" that would help to tie them to campus even further.

That's what I'M saying! Though as we're told in the video, that's a no-no because "Braves" only has one definition in the dictionary.... *sigh*

[Da Coach]

..
FWIW - my grandfather and father have told lots of stories of their time on campus and those gargoyles. Something about them whistling every time virgin co-eds would pass beneath them.

Wonder if any of our elder alums can remember any of those stories or if there is any other "lore" that would help to tie them to campus even further.

I guess I am one of those elder alums... I have never heard any these stories, but that doesn't mean they aren't true.

I was just wondering why the Gargoyles never whistle any more?

[tornado]

Is it impossible to have the nickname "BRAVES" and have a Gargoyle as our mascot?
..

of course not - Stanford has the nickname Cardinal and have a tree as their mascot and the Phillies sure don't have a Philly as their mascot, they have a green thing

[Da Coach]

A lot of other schools have mascots that do not have anything to do with their nickname.

The Akron Zips (named after zippered boots that were made in Akron) have a Kangaroo named Zippy as their mascot. It is unique, cute, and likeable and they have made millions from it's marketing.

http://www.uakron.edu/about_ua/history/athletics_history_traditions.dot

[BUFanatic]

of course not - Stanford has the nickname Cardinal and have a tree as their mascot and the Phillies sure don't have a Philly as their mascot, they have a green thing

Oh yeah! I forgot about that.... whatever that is!

[Da Coach]

Although Bradley won the right to maintain the name Braves...

That is the major point of contention, IMO, and I think in the minds of a lot of alumni and fans.

The NCAA, after a decade of harassment, finally dropped their case, and allowed Bradley to keep the long established name of Braves, as long as we did what the NCAA demanded and removed all reference and imagery of Native Americans. Bradley spent a lot of money, legal fees, and effort by dedicated past administrators to fight this battle with the NCAA, and we won! And, btw, not all schools with names derived from native American heritage did win their cases. Some voluntarily changed their names, while some were forced to change their names, and some are still fighting the NCAA.

So as I have seen others say, why are we now conceding the name issue when we have already fought and won that battle??
Is there something more they aren't telling us? Don't they know we already won this fight and can keep the name everyone seems to be happy with? Why is this even necessary? As wizard said, (and wizard is a very wise, respected, long-time alum and supporter who knows what he is talking about) it could do more damage to Bradley than any good that could come from it, and at the very least, it will offend a lot of loyal alums.

[Braveman]

I think the University, while "winning" the right to keep the name Braves- still feels an NCAA cloud hanging over them. SO since we have a new branding- why not a new nickname?

That is my take on it...