Sam Maniscalco

[Chico]

I don't remember anyone calling JL a villain when Sam left.....I don't know, neither situation was good IMO but both Granger and Sam decided to move on. DG felt he was being mistreated and left...I wish Sam would have at least talked to Geno but he didn't...I also wondered if JL had to do over again if he would have done some things differently the first year

I can see why people would be upset with both of them

No comparison. One guy, Sam, played every season till the end. The other, dg, quit on his team during the season.

[WomensBaller]

Does this mean that Sammy doesn't plan on finishing the masters degree that Bradley did not offer?

To my knowledge, Sam finished his master's degree. Also, I doubt he would have left Bradley had Les not been fired. I don't think BU fans should hold his decision to go against him when it was largely motivated by a coaching change that he had no control over and, obviously, did not agree with.

And, let's not forget Sam's dad, Carl, also played for Bradley. This is a family that bleeds red and deserves BU support.

[Mikovio]

Do you know why he left? Do you know the full story? I bet you do not, otherwise you would not have such a knee jerk reaction! There were other variables around JL's firing that made SM's departure a sure thing. As I have stated, I did not like it that he left, but I do completely 100% understand.

In fact the guy worked hard in the classroom to be able to give himself the ability to make the choice he did. That in itself is why I gave him kudos.

No I don't know all the facts surrounding his departure. I've heard all sorts of rumors but I don't know what to believe. The one fact I do know for sure is that he transferred. Whether it was to get back at the administration, or stick up for Les, or whatever doesn't excuse that in my mind. It just means (if that's indeed true) he put loyalty to his coach and/or petty personal politics above loyalty to his school. Sorry, that's not what I'd call bleeding red and white. Players transfer all the time for various reasons, and when they do we should respect their decision, but to praise it?

Granger was an excellent student too who studied engineering and was a finalist for the Wendys Heisman, and had Ivy League offers out of HS. Where's his kudos?

Mik - Here's one thing I find odd..
That even tho the events happened eight years apart -- many of the very same people who supported Danny Granger's leaving Bradley and fiercely sided with Granger in attacking JL...
even tho there was clear proof of tampering and other violations back then -
are the exact same people arguing strongly that Sam is a villain and a traitor...(when everything Sam did it fully allowed and even encouraged by the rules)...
I just don't see how JL can be the villain both ways...
The real story has not been fully told - but will some day....note how all the people leaving now (unlike Granger did) have the class to remain silent and NOT air dirty laundry...but the truth will come out some day as the truth is known to some within the "inner circle".

I don't know any Bradley fans who supported Granger's leaving. IIRC some of them bashed Les for denying him food on the bus (or more broadly, not giving him the prima donna rock star treatment) because it was a contributing factor. I think Les deserves some blame there, and may not have been ready to deal with the various egos and personalities on a college basketball team due to lack of experience coaching kids, but if you go that route you need to place more blame on Broski for the decision to hire him. Les went after the job and to his credit persuaded them, and the results were mixed.

I haven't heard anyone accuse Sam of breaking the rules. But practically speaking it did leave a gaping hole on our roster. Villainy accusations go too far. Disloyalty doesn't IMO.

No comparison. One guy, Sam, played every season till the end. The other, dg, quit on his team during the season.

But Sam didn't play every season. And you can flip it around and argue that at least DG gave the new coach a shot.

Also, I doubt he would have left Bradley had Les not been fired. I don't think BU fans should hold his decision to go against him when it was largely motivated by a coaching change that he had no control over and, obviously, did not agree with.

What you're saying is he put loyalty to coach above loyalty to his alma mater. That's supposed to be his defense??

[tornado]

I don't know any Bradley fans who supported Granger's leaving.

I disagree- I clearly recall a certain anti-Jim Les element of the BU fan base (who knew DG wasn't happy here and wanted to leave) that gloated with the negative happenings and publicity when Granger left because they knew it would make JL look bad -- some even posted on the boards and in the press at that time that it was all JL's fault, Les mismanaged the situation, worsened it with the hypoglycemia incident, and let a future NBA'er "get away"....and that the facts such as the press conference with Richie McKay in Albuquerque proved it!

It's like saying "I don't know any Bradley fan who would want Bradley to lose"...
and yet I have personally heard several such "fans" say precisely that they DID want BU to lose in the 2011 MVC Tourney so there wouldn't be any reason to hold onto JL.
One long time season ticket-holder who wanted JL ousted even telling me "the worst thing that could ever happen would be for BU to surprise everyone win the Tourney and end up going to the NCAA!"

so if you don't know any of these fans, then it surprises me, but there are a few of them...

[Da Coach]

...

What you're saying is he put loyalty to coach above loyalty to his alma mater. That's supposed to be his defense??

We all want to move forward from these past issues, but I will say I have heard Sam's and Carl's side of this, and they felt betrayed. I would suggest every fan should try to hear what the issues were on both sides before labeling a player a traitor or condemning someone.
IMO, if a player or family feels there were promises that were not kept, then it is better for both sides for them to leave.

[lefty]

We all want to move forward from these past issues, but I will say I have heard Sam's and Carl's side of this, and they felt betrayed. I would suggest every fan should try to hear what the issues were on both sides before labeling a player a traitor or condemning someone.
IMO, if a player or family feels there were promises that were not kept, then it is better for both sides for them to leave.

Betrayed by the adminstration? Did they promise to keep Les here as long as SM played here?

Other than the coach, who is doing the promising? Just curious

[Chico]

No argument. Sam played the entire season when he was healthy. dg quit on his team.

[Mikovio]

I disagree- I clearly recall a certain anti-Jim Les element of the BU fan base (who knew DG wasn't happy here and wanted to leave) that gloated with the negative happenings and publicity when Granger left because they knew it would make JL look bad -- some even posted on the boards and in the press at that time that it was all JL's fault, Les mismanaged the situation, worsened it with the hypoglycemia incident, and let a future NBA'er "get away"....and that the facts such as the press conference with Richie McKay in Albuquerque proved it!

I recall those sentiments too; I just wouldn't call the examples you cited or anything else I recall as being "support" for Granger's decision. They weren't justifying the decision Granger made or "siding" with him IMO. They just wanted a coaching change and were being opportunistic. If X's actions were a causal factor in Y doing something wrong, and you criticize X, you're not necessarily condoning Y (because he has independent judgment and could have resisted despite X's actions). If a parent leaves the liquor cabinet unlocked and the kids get into it, and you criticize the parent, you're not supporting or siding with the kid's decision. Both can be guilty.

So when you imply that these guys are being hypocritical by criticizing Maniscalco for leaving while supporting Granger, I can't agree because I don't think they were ever pro-Granger. I think they were consistently anti-Les and wanted him gone.

And for the record I don't blame Les for the Granger incident, and if people want to raise the experience argument like I said it's not his fault that he's leading a D-I program with little to no coaching experience. He applied for the job, and it's job of the ones doing the hiring to weed him out.

It's like saying "I don't know any Bradley fan who would want Bradley to lose"...
and yet I have personally heard several such "fans" say precisely that they DID want BU to lose in the 2011 MVC Tourney so there wouldn't be any reason to hold onto JL.
One long time season ticket-holder who wanted JL ousted even telling me "the worst thing that could ever happen would be for BU to surprise everyone win the Tourney and end up going to the NCAA!"

Now that did happen and although they would argue the ends justify the means I agree you should never root against your team.

We all want to move forward from these past issues, but I will say I have heard Sam's and Carl's side of this, and they felt betrayed. I would suggest every fan should try to hear what the issues were on both sides before labeling a player a traitor or condemning someone.
IMO, if a player or family feels there were promises that were not kept, then it is better for both sides for them to leave.

Okay, what are the issues?

It might be best, but at the same time you don't get to transfer from your school and get to claim loyalty to it. Period. Unless there is some compelling reason like a sick relative back home or something. But I have heard no such compelling reason. A promise not to fire a coach (if that indeed happened) wouldn't qualify IMO.