Title IX - has it worked?

[bradleyfan20]

but you act like the money just grows on trees....no, it has to come from somewhere - thus if someone is PAYING for it then is it not fair to let those who shell out the $$ have some voice in this?
Instead you just want to legislate and force those who are paying to support something that in many cases they do NOT want and do not approve their $$ being used to float...

I have raised both boys & girls as well as white children and Black children and have endlessly tried to instill a good work ethic that will drive them to work hard ON THEIR OWN and not ask for nor expect anyone else to come along and help them or carry them when they couldn't have made it on their own. It's a life plan that works since you're NOT dependent on someone else to carry you...
I am fully aware that some - maybe MANY - have a different perspective of wanting to grab everything they can or raise their kids to do so, or use anyone else or anything else as a stepping stone to get higher....but I personally choose not to live that way and not to train my kids to always look for or expect a handout especially not an unfair gift from the government...
too bad more parents don't train their kids to be independent and self-sufficient because we might not have $15 trillion in debt caused largely by government handouts ...

You and I simply view the world differently. The $15 trillion debt was caused by not taxing enough and paying for the things that were voted on and by not saying NO enough when we couldn't afford things that people wanted. Politicians simply buy votes, that is where much of the debt is from. Also, 3 trillion to go to war...there's 20% of the debt. Maybe if we would pay for things as we went and said "If you REALLY want this, we have to raise taxes to pay for it. If you don't really think it is necessary, then we can leave taxes where they are."

I get it, you don't like government. But rules are good. They keep society somewhat in line. You have to have referees. You have to have some sort of fairness. Should I be able to contaminate all of Peoria's drinking water to make my widget so I can make a profit? Should I be able to pollute all of the air so I can provide my product? I don't think so. You may disagree.

i see government as WE THE PEOPLE. So when WE THE PEOPLE decide that we need more fairness in opportunities for women, and it is upheld by judges, then I think that is a good thing. And the results are clearly showing it is working.

[tornado]

BTW - too bad this "equality" thing does NOT work the same for males as females...

Examples...

-if a high school or junior high school does not have a girls team in a particular sport, then the girls ARE allowed to play on the boys' team....I have personally seen many such examples of girls on boys soccer, baseball, golf, and even basketball teams...
BUT - if a school doesn't have a boys team, then the boys are NEVER allowed to be on the girls' team. Why is that???
One time long ago when it actually did happen, it caused so much furor that there were lawsuits!!!

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local&id=3617635

http://il.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.19790906_0001444.IL.htm/qx

and there was once an attempt for a boy to play on a girl's golf team and it was NOT allowed!

-if there is EVER such a thing as an ALL BOYS team, an All Boys school, or an all Men's Country Club - then there is NO END to the anger and hostility and negative press coverage until the offenders are brought to their knees and the all-boys stuff is eliminated.
BUT -- there are all-girls things all the time and nobody ever cares and nobody every has a problem with it!!

-men have for time eternal been conscripted (drafted) into military service against their will - yet women - even those who demand the right to serve in the military and in combat - still OBJECT vigorously to the idea of ever drafting women.

- the kids who DROP OUT of schools are almost 80% males - yet there is little to NO uproar...thus the public schools are spending more to educate girls than boys ...and we all know if those stats were flip-flopped and if 80% of dropouts were girls, there'd be even more Title IX's or X's to deal with it!

-then we all know there's a worldwide uproar over forced mutilation that takes place in some nations if it involves cutting the private parts of girls - but there's little if any such uproar if it involves males.


Also -- is this fair???
IHSA sponsors MORE sports for girls than the do for boys!!!
That's right - the IHSA already sponsors more girls sports (15) than boys (14).


And "every Division I NCAA women’s sport offers more scholarships than the corresponding men’s sport
except for lacrosse (12.6 for men, 12 for women) and hockey (18 for each).
Soccer and swimming get 50 percent more scholarships for women.
It’s nearly triple for volleyball and nearly double for tennis and water polo."

[Da Coach]

And, this is the point that you don't want to listen to. It is simple math. If you are designing a blind system, where you don't know the athletes involved, and it is decided (which it was in 1972) that equality is a good thing, the simple answer to your question is FOOTBALL. I don't know why that is so difficult to comprehend. 80 football scholarships, plus all of the other men's sports scholarships = women's scholarships. So, some women's sports need more scholarships to provide opportunity for the student population because football is eating at the number of men's scholarships. That really does seem simple. If you want equality in track and field from men to women in terms of number of scholarships, then as I said before, why not cut football from 80 to 60 scholarships.

You dismissed this idea earlier, but that is the answer to your question. You may disagree with it, which is fine. But, that is the answer to why 12.6 and 9.9 for the men. What is truly great about this country is this: Fight to change the law if you feel it is wrong or unconstitutional.

Again, I actually never watch women play sports. I think it is boring outside of a couple of high level volleyball games. That is me. But, I do think the opportunity must exist.

Sorry, but your logic fails to make any sense. Title IX says nothing about the number of scholarships allowed per sport. It only vaguely states there should be no discrimination based on sex. And since the courts have already interpreted that to mean some totally arbitrary quota for scholarships based on the percentage breakdown for the school's general population, then there needn't be any additional arbitrary restrictions by the NCAA on how many scholarships each men's and women's sports should be allowed to grant.
Also, since the 80 scholarships that you continually keep citing given for football are countered by an appropriate number of scholarships in women's sports, then you should be exceedingly happy to see all those scholarships for football! If not for them, there would be far fewer scholarships handed out to women. And since football is the only big money producer for college sports, the Title IX people should be thankful it exists to help pay for all the other sports.

The bottom line is that if you feel the government must legislate every aspect of our lives, then you think the quotas mandated by court decisions on Title IX are a good thing. If you think the government already forces it's way too much into our lives, it's excessive.

[bradleyfan20]

Sorry, but your logic fails to make any sense. Title IX says nothing about the number of scholarships allowed per sport. It only vaguely states there should be no discrimination based on sex. And since the courts have already interpreted that to mean some totally arbitrary quota for scholarships based on the percentage breakdown for the school's general population, then there needn't be any additional arbitrary restrictions by the NCAA on how many scholarships each men's and women's sports should be allowed to grant.
Also, since the 80 scholarships that you continually keep citing given for football are countered by an appropriate number of scholarships in women's sports, then you should be exceedingly happy to see all those scholarships for football! If not for them, there would be far fewer scholarships handed out to women. And since football is the only big money producer for college sports, the Title IX people should be thankful it exists to help pay for all the other sports.

The bottom line is that if you feel the government must legislate every aspect of our lives, then you think the quotas mandated by court decisions on Title IX are a good thing. If you think the government already forces it's way too much into our lives, it's excessive.

Ahhh, I'm getting tired of beating a dead horse. So, I will stop. You obviously aren't getting my point. IF football (which is my favorite sport) went from 80 to 60, then they could give those 20 scholarships to MEN in other sports. If they cut from 80 to 60 and didn't give them to other sports, then they could cut 20 women's scholarships. WHY IS THAT DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND??????

And, if you replace the word government with WE THE PEOPLE.... WE THE PEOPLE should legislate our lives. If WE THE PEOPLE do not, then chaos can ensue. WE THE PEOPLE are capable of making good rules and policies that best serve society as a whole...including Title IX.

[bradleyfan20]

BTW - too bad this "equality" thing does NOT work the same for males as females...

Examples...

-if a high school or junior high school does not have a girls team in a particular sport, then the girls ARE allowed to play on the boys' team....I have personally seen many such examples of girls on boys soccer, baseball, golf, and even basketball teams...
BUT - if a school doesn't have a boys team, then the boys are NEVER allowed to be on the girls' team. Why is that???
One time long ago when it actually did happen, it caused so much furor that there were lawsuits!!!

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local&id=3617635

http://il.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.19790906_0001444.IL.htm/qx

and there was once an attempt for a boy to play on a girl's golf team and it was NOT allowed!

-if there is EVER such a thing as an ALL BOYS team, an All Boys school, or an all Men's Country Club - then there is NO END to the anger and hostility and negative press coverage until the offenders are brought to their knees and the all-boys stuff is eliminated.
BUT -- there are all-girls things all the time and nobody ever cares and nobody every has a problem with it!!

-men have for time eternal been conscripted (drafted) into military service against their will - yet women - even those who demand the right to serve in the military and in combat - still OBJECT vigorously to the idea of ever drafting women.

- the kids who DROP OUT of schools are almost 80% males - yet there is little to NO uproar...thus the public schools are spending more to educate girls than boys ...and we all know if those stats were flip-flopped and if 80% of dropouts were girls, there'd be even more Title IX's or X's to deal with it!

-then we all know there's a worldwide uproar over forced mutilation that takes place in some nations if it involves cutting the private parts of girls - but there's little if any such uproar if it involves males.


Also -- is this fair???
IHSA sponsors MORE sports for girls than the do for boys!!!
That's right - the IHSA already sponsors more girls sports (15) than boys (14).


And "every Division I NCAA women??™s sport offers more scholarships than the corresponding men??™s sport
except for lacrosse (12.6 for men, 12 for women) and hockey (18 for each).
Soccer and swimming get 50 percent more scholarships for women.
It??™s nearly triple for volleyball and nearly double for tennis and water polo."

This is silly. Because there is an epidemic of boys not getting any chance to participate in athletics. Funny.

The fact that the IHSA sponsors more girls sports than boys, ok...good. More girls are in school than boys. Proportional opportunity.

And, your right. People NEVER talk about HS dropout rates.

Bottom line, if you think we would be here without Title IX, then what is the issue. The law is meaningless, we would be here anyway...Right??? Obviously you don't think we would be here, so the law is necessary.

[tornado]

I realize I am in the minority who believe that even if all this government intervention helps some - in the end, except where people are truly harmed (not just have to make it on their own in sports) the government should stay out of things.
Time has pretty much proven the government is very bad at actually accomplishing what they set out to do and for every perceived "positive" that gets done - it costs society two or three negatives....and almost all their actions are more to garner votes than actually right wrongs...
BUT I acknowledge there's a lot who want even more government meddling and yet that's why there's a huge groundswell against what's now going on in Washington.

[SFP]

Well I can say the total amount of women going to college compared to men is growing larger. Why is that? Next the government will need to make sure men get equal access to scholastic scholarships to women.

Title IX was not a bad concept but has been taken to an extreme which does not in a lot of instances make common sense. Men and women are different and I do not see men clamoring for more scholarships in areas where woman dominate.

If it truly makes the collegiate experience better those programs will survive on their own.

[Braves4Life]

Well I can say the total amount of women going to college compared to men is growing larger. Why is that? Next the government will need to make sure men get equal access to scholastic scholarships to women.

That has nothing to do with why there are more women than men in college SFP. Women simply work harder and take college and career more seriously than the young "men" of today... "Man up" men!

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/apr/20/business/la-fi-mo-young-women-careers-20120420

[SFP]

That has nothing to do with why there are more women than men in college SFP. Women simply work harder and take college and career more seriously than the young "men" of today... "Man up" men!

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/apr...reers-20120420

B4L I agree I was just stirring the pot a bit. I've seen it at my work. Young men expect to get through life playing video games while women will put in the time and work to advance. I agree the men need to man up and parents need to start parenting up their boys.

[tornado]

as my last comment in this thread - to reiterate ...in many, many areas where title IX is irrelevant - the participation by women has grown tremendously...and, of course, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with Title IX nor government intervention.
There are far more women in broadcasting - even anchors...
There used to be just 10-20% of medical school students in the 70's were women - now it's OVER 50%
There used to be extremely few women playing lacrosse, softball, competitive motorsports, etc...now there are lots of them
There used to be very few women CEO's, senators, mayors, board chairmen, etc...now there are MANY
and on and on....much of the stuff everyone is crediting to Title IX would have happened anyway....all Title IX did was get the government involved and we all know how ridiculous that is.

[tornado]

Homewood-Flossmoor girls softball have one of the nicest facilities in the state - but it wasn't good enough for someone - who filed suit because they claim the boys field is nicer...

http://yourseason.suntimes.com/home/13663672-393/softball-facility-is-subject-of-title-ix-complaint-at-homewood-flossmoor.html