Its Over---Now What?

[Beninator]

If you lack talent any offense is tough to run.

I disagree as well. Look no further than some of the Princeton teams that have won some big games in the NCAA tournament and have given some of the BCS teams a run for their money.

This year, I was looking for execution on offense. Instead, we need to execute our offense!

[Tulsa Brave]

I disagree as well. Look no further than some of the Princeton teams that have won some big games in the NCAA tournament and have given some of the BCS teams a run for their money.

This year, I was looking for execution on offense. Instead, we need to execute our offense!

Those Princeton teams were filled with shooters. BU's team was filled with bricklayers. Big difference. You can't win unless you can put the ball in the basket. Even the incredible defensive play of WIU wasn't enough last night when they lost the ability to put the ball in the hole the last 15 minutes of the game.

[Tulsa Brave]

I definitely disagree...here we go again - we're just terrible victims of a lack of talent...
..if you watched Mo's game last night - South Dakota State is not only going to the NCAA Tourney but they beat BIG TIME BCS teams this year by 20 pts and virtually not one of their players got a single D-I offer..they are all kids who went D-II when a D-II program was transitioning to D-I.

I doubt Geno or anyone else would have offered any of them...so in your definition - they "lacked talent" - yet they have been coached into a GOOD team...
Same with Mo's guys....who lost by 2 to Michigan...

I didn't realize the Pac 12 had any BIG TIME BCS teams this year, but yes South Dakota State beat 1 BCS team, a very inconsistent Washington team, by 19 early in the season. They also lost to such BIG TIME BCS teams as Minnesota, Georgia, and Nebraska, all by double digit margins.

[Beninator]

Those Princeton teams were filled with shooters. BU's team was filled with bricklayers. Big difference.

True, but the Princeton offense also has back door cuts for layups, flare screens, and screens away from the ball. Not just three point shooting...

[Chico]

Glad to see the ol "we didn't run an offense and we missed too many open shots" statements come back. Give me a non-offense that gives us a chance to miss those wide open shots any day. I'd suggest replacing the bricklayers with shooters. Crazy idea I know.

If Donivine wasnt from Limestone, no one would care. Where is everyone championing Milos's cause? Hodges's?

Also- did someone really site stats from exhibition games versus d2 and lesser opponents? I think you said it all right there.

Classic stuff guys. I needed a few laughs today.

I've been "championing" Milo's cause ever since he's been a Brave. We know he can shoot. Because of lack of playing time, we don't know about Hodges. Donivine was a star at Limestone and we always like to see local kids remain in town to play for the Braves, so of course we care. I see nothing wrong with that.

[Hello Newman]

I definitely disagree...here we go again - we're just terrible victims of a lack of talent...
..if you watched Mo's game last night - South Dakota State is not only going to the NCAA Tourney but they beat BIG TIME BCS teams this year by 20 pts and virtually not one of their players got a single D-I offer..they are all kids who went D-II when a D-II program was transitioning to D-I.

I doubt Geno or anyone else would have offered any of them...so in your definition - they "lacked talent" - yet they have been coached into a GOOD team...
Same with Mo's guys....who lost by 2 to Michigan...

So what you are saying is that Geno Ford had a talented team but he just did a poor job of coaching them?

[Da Coach]

I think most fans recognize it is not an all-or-none situation. It's more of a difference in systems that the previous players didn't fit into as well. Just look at the numbers for the holdover players. With the exception of Walt, most numbers for everyone else went down from 2011 to 2012. If it was simply a lack of talent, why did several players do better last year?

[Hello Newman]

I think most fans recognize it is not an all-or-none situation. It's more of a difference in systems that the previous players didn't fit into as well. Just look at the numbers for the holdover players. With the exception of Walt, most numbers for everyone else went down from 2011 to 2012. If it was simply a lack of talent, why did several players do better last year?

I agree with you. A new system with players recruited to a different system is also an issue. There is no all or nothing answer.

But every single player who was a holdover saw their scoring and rebounding numbers increase from 2011 to 2012.

DSE, 10.5 to 11.5
Jordan, 5.3 to 7.8
Jake, 3.3 to 5.9
Stix, 1.1 to 3.0

Rebounding numbers went up in all four situations as well. DSE shot better from the three point line this year as opposed to last. Jake about the same. Stix played more and performed better this year. One difference was Jordan's FG% went down from 54% to 45%.

To say the holdovers had better numbers last year is inaccurate.

[Beninator]

I really don't care too much about last year to this year's comparisons, but I will chime in with the dreaded assist/turnovers....

Braves
2010-11 374/390
2011-12 344/438

Opponents

2010-11 481-414
2011-12 512-414

Ok... you guys can continue the debate...

[Hello Newman]

I really don't care too much about last year to this year's comparisons, but I will chime in with the dreaded assist/turnovers....

Braves
2010-11 374/390
2011-12 344/438

Opponents

2010-11 481-414
2011-12 512-414

Ok... you guys can continue the debate...

No doubt Bradley needs to take better care of the ball going forward. The turnovers were a big problem this past season.

[Beninator]

Just perusing through the team stats, I found that we have not been on the positive side with assists/turnovers since the 2007-08 season. We came close in 2009-10 though. fwiw

[BradleyJD]

BTW -- we have heard for years that not finishing better than 4th and not making it repeatedly to the NCAA tournament were PROOFS-POSITIVE of poor coaching...
I am curious if those criteria will now suddenly change when we use them on someone other than JL...

I don't know about proof-positive, but I still expect better than 4/5 finishes. If that is all Geno produces during his contract, I would hope for a change. Bradley needs to be better than 4/5!

[Da Coach]

But every single player who was a holdover saw their scoring and rebounding numbers increase from 2011 to 2012.

DSE, 10.5 to 11.5
Jordan, 5.3 to 7.8
Jake, 3.3 to 5.9
Stix, 1.1 to 3.0

Rebounding numbers went up in all four situations as well. DSE shot better from the three point line this year as opposed to last. Jake about the same. Stix played more and performed better this year. One difference was Jordan's FG% went down from 54% to 45%.

To say the holdovers had better numbers last year is inaccurate.

You need to look deeper- Look at percentages and production per minutes played, since IMO the best way to judge progress is to look at players' efficiency and production per minute played-
Let's look at the 4 most significant returning players-

As I said, Walt's numbers were the exception, they were improved.
JP's scoring went up, but his FG percentage went down significantly 54% to 45%, and his rebounds per minutes played actually went down from 0.25 to 0.21.
Though JE's scoring went up a little, the difference was very slight when corrected for minutes played. But, his FG percentage dropped from 38% to 33.8%, and his 3-point % dropped from 28% to 23%. His rebounds per minutes played also dropped slightly from 0.153 to 0.148, and assists per minute dropped about 20%.
DSE's scoring went up slightly from 10.5 to 11.5, but when corrected for minutes played, his scoring actually went down 0.35 ppm to 0.34 ppm. His field goal percentage plummetted (43% to 33%), and his assists dropped significantly (3.5 apg to 2.8 apg despite an increase in minutes).
And Taylor Brown's numbers, compared to 2009-2010- should have shown significant improvement from 2 years ago, but his rebounding per minute actually dropped significantly from .23 to .20, and his scoring stayed about the same when corrected for minutes played.

[BradleyJD]

Talent is a subjective term.

Mo was fired because he was 28-32 his last few years.

Les was fired because he was 28-35 his last few years.

WE didn't run either coach out of here. Both had contracts, both were judged by the current administration at that time to be ineffective, and both were fired.

If they had won more, they would not have been fired. Whether it's coaching or talent is debatable.

[Da Coach]

Sorry, but this thread has veered way off the original topic and turned into personal "debate" that is best settled in Private Messaging.

By administrative decision, a few posts were deleted.
I am sure this action will be discussed elsewhere by a few people pathologically obsessed with everything said on this board and every moderating decision.

So please keep the discussion on topic and not about other posters.