Remy Abell

[Gary the Gargoyle]

He is a backup, and he is only a part time PG. He fills other roles at IU, including as a spot-up shooter. So of course his shots to assists ratio isn't going to look like a point guard's. To judge him as a point guard based on those stats is not logical. Even Tom Crean has praised Remy's PG skills as well as what else he brings to their team, but IU also has other 5-star point guards.

I hadn't seen him play. For some reason, I felt as though I'd read a lot about him as a PG, but maybe not. Regardless, he looks like a nice player.

[Braves4Life]

Where should we finish in the Valley during GF's 3rd year?

Top 5... Maybe Top 3 (with a little luck)... Some kind of post season bid.

[wily coyote]

He would have looked real good running the weave and dribbling off moving screens.

Now that's funny. I don't care what you say that's funny. Oh I almost forgot we'd probably get called for those illegal screens.

[wily coyote]

Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah....I can't hear you.

You've got to be kidding. What is this coming to. Count me in the 98% group. This really needs to stop. The past is gone and hopefully the future is bright. My glass is half full. Not sure about a few of the rest of you. Go Braves. Better days are ahead.

[Da Coach]

It was a joke. And if it really was 98%, the Civic Center would be full for each game. You are kidding yourself if you don't think there are a ton of disenchanted fans.

[electricmayhem]

Top 5... Maybe Top 3 (with a little luck)... Some kind of post season bid.

In year three under Les, we were 13-15, 6-12.
In year three under Mo, we were 23-8, 14-4.

I'd settle for something in between that.

We danced in Mo's 5th season and in JL's 4th season. In both cases, we never got back to the dance.

My strategy is if we dance in Geno's 4th or 5th season, get rid of him immediately! Let's just eliminate the backside of the mountain!

[TheAsianSensation]

You are free to believe all that, but this is where we disagree. Many people believed Jim Les was just as capable of rebuilding this team as a new coach. And we all know the reasons he was fired. He was just 1 year removed for 5 winning seasons in a row, averaging over 20 wins per season. Now I know you will try to diminish that with all sorts of qualifications, but Bradley was a winning program, and might have been even much better, and had a couple more NCAA seasons if not for a number of key injuries to our star players. Plus, JL had a great recruiting class coming in that all but dissolved. Now we are waiting for year 3 after the change, hoping that will bring us back to respectability.

Well not to actually actively diminish the numbers you post, but just reciting those without context isn't exactly fair either. Everyone's obviously been down that road several times (blah blah blah EIEIO tourneys etc etc) so we don't need to rehash. I think we can agree to disagree on where Les had the program at the time of his firing - I obviously don't think it was in as good as shape as you think.

I think the last sentence is the key. "bring us back to respectability". I don't think that's what the people who wanted Les gone are thinking. We're not thinking, "let's get back to average in year 3". We're thinking, "Let's contend for and win titles in years 4, 5, 6, and beyond".

And for the university to spend millions of dollars of fans' donated funds on paying off the old coach, and overpaying for a new one was another part of what hurts the program. I will support the new coach, I have gone to every home game, and even a road game at IUPUI (how many of the critics even go to as many games?) and I have donated a lot of my money, so it's ludicrous to suggest I am not being a true fan. But like the thousands of fans who are not coming to the games any more, some of whom have stopped donating, there is dissatisfaction with the fallout (call it whatever you want) and the losing. How can you and others be so happy with where things are now with revenues and ticket sales lower than they have been in many decades.

The "how" part of the firing was definitely not executed well, I'll say that.

I'll be (possibly brutally) honest about what I think - I do think you are a true fan. I do think just like everyone here, you're a true fan, and you have great resources to back that up, unlike others who don't have the same resources.

I think your actions support you being a true fan, but your words camoflauge that. Obviously, if you put resources (time, money, whatever) into something, and that something behaves in a way you disagree with, there is a right to be mad. You have a right to state your case as to why. But what it feels like to me is that by doing this, you're camoflauging your actual true support for the current regime. I think you're undermining the current staff, players, etc., but I think you don't realize that you're actually doing it.

My "true fan" comment comes from that in the end, every fan in his/her own way is responsible for promotion of their team, and all they can do is project a positive attitude going forward for the program. You obviously are in a much greater position as far as visibility and resources to provide that promotion, and that gets camoflauged by the other stuff. With greater influence comes greater responsibility.

Please note that I have never started a thread to make these complaints. I have only done so because the other side keeps trying to attack and blame everything irrationally, and even in this thread we have seen irrational attacks on a player who was a committed recruit (Remy Abell).
You are enitled to your opinions, but why is it when other opinions are voiced, some get so bent out of shape, hurl attacks and insults, and try to shout down those they don't agree with?

I really don't have much beef with you, I've found I'm able to discuss these things with you on a fair level. You do get a fair bit of unwarranted criticism. I do think both sides have gone too far with all the attacks and stuff.

Anyways, I'd mention what I feel is the real source of the problems and what I thought of it, but posting my true unfiltered words on it would get the censors hopping.

[tornado]

I get a laugh when someone discounts BU's wins in E-I-E-I-O tourneys but revel, hoot & holler over wins against teams like UTPA & UT-Martin who are never even close to good enough to get to a post-season tourney...

[LittleBrave]

Top 5... Maybe Top 3 (with a little luck)... Some kind of post season bid.

I am "hoping" for Top 5, but would say 6th or 7th is more likely next season.
We do lose the services of 3 decent seniors who comprise about half of our team's scoring. The 4 or 5 newcomers may need a full season to adjust to Valley play, and they will experience growing pains. I feel they bring more talent to the table, and fill a couple gaps like much improved outside shooting and PG play, but that is unproven really.

I think expecting Top 4 by next season is a a bit much.
In year 4, I expect a Top 4 finish or bust!

[LittleBrave]

My strategy is if we dance in Geno's 4th or 5th season, get rid of him immediately! Let's just eliminate the backside of the mountain!

Funny stuff e-mayhem!

[DeltaBrave03]

I get a laugh when someone discounts BU's wins in E-I-E-I-O tourneys but revel, hoot & holler over wins against teams like UTPA & UT-Martin who are never even close to good enough to get to a post-season tourney...

No one here is planning any parades for this team. I think most agree they are seeing improvements from last year, and that's more based on play rather than who and how were beating teams. The constant misrepresentation of people's opinions gets old.

[TheAsianSensation]

I get a laugh when someone discounts BU's wins in E-I-E-I-O tourneys but revel, hoot & holler over wins against teams like UTPA & UT-Martin who are never even close to good enough to get to a post-season tourney...

Do people hoot and holler over wins against UTPA and UTM in the offseason? People do do it for the EIEIO games. Apples and oranges.

The cupcake games are on the schedule every year. The EIEIO games didn't exist until recently and evidence points to perfect timing more than anything else that resulted in a couple of the 20 win seasons. If there was no CBI and CIT tournaments and we finished with 17 or 18 wins both years, do you feel the pro-Les argument is any different?

[SFP]

Top 5... Maybe Top 3 (with a little luck)... Some kind of post season bid.

I am "hoping" for Top 5, but would say 6th or 7th is more likely next season.
We do lose the services of 3 decent seniors who comprise about half of our team's scoring. The 4 or 5 newcomers may need a full season to adjust to Valley play, and they will experience growing pains. I feel they bring more talent to the table, and fill a couple gaps like much improved outside shooting and PG play, but that is unproven really.

I think expecting Top 4 by next season is a a bit much.
In year 4, I expect a Top 4 finish or bust!

I'm starting to feel like year 3 will not be where I'd want it. In order to make the hop from .500 to top 3 it will take some major talent. I've already put AF as a top flight PG for next year but without seeing any of our recruits play the shooting aspect is way to large of a questions mark. You need shooters in this league to win consistently. Now on bigs, it will depend on our recruits and if NW can really help us out on a consistent basis. Year 4 is way to far away for me to make a prediction but if we're not contending for the title come Feb. and skip Thursday then I'll be completely disappointed. This all can change come spring with updated news on some great recruits. This will be a make or break class for GF. The following class will probably not really contribute in a large way until year 5.

[Gary the Gargoyle]

Do people hoot and holler over wins against UTPA and UTM in the offseason? People do do it for the EIEIO games. Apples and oranges.

The cupcake games are on the schedule every year. The EIEIO games didn't exist until recently and evidence points to perfect timing more than anything else that resulted in a couple of the 20 win seasons. If there was no CBI and CIT tournaments and we finished with 17 or 18 wins both years, do you feel the pro-Les argument is any different?

My view of the value of a 20 win season is based on the 30 regular season games (20-10 or better).

Twenty win seasons that I don't value come from a 16-14 regular season with 1 or 2 wins the conference tournament and 2 or 3 wins in the CBI or CIT. Anytime you finish with 15 or 16 losses, the 20 wins are greatly diminished in my view.

[wily coyote]

It was a joke. And if it really was 98%, the Civic Center would be full for each game. You are kidding yourself if you don't think there are a ton of disenchanted fans.

Thanks I'm glad it was a joke. Thought you were serious at first. I'm sure there are alot of people disenchanted. Don't doubt that for a moment but the CC wasn't full b4 the change except for ISU and it won't be until we start winning again. It's been said on here many times,winning will bring the people back. If that doesn't we have a real problem but I'm betting win and they will come. I'm going to say this one more time because I feel like I'm riding a dead horse but "it may not change if we keep putting those stupid packages together like our wonderful 4 pack". Sorry I'm done won't bring it up again. That one really P--sed me off.