Remy Abell

[DeltaBrave03]

So the sentiments of fans on a message board can somehow drive the future of this team down? Wow, how things have changed.
I recall people, especially a certain columnist, intentionally trying to undermine the last regime. Where was all this "not fair to the players and coaches" then?

A columnist's job is to hold teams and organizations accountable for their performances. They're name is on everything they publish, there for all to agree or disagree. Just because you don't agree with his opinion does not mean he is undermining a regime. I expect DR and KW to provide the same unbiased opinion of a GF coached team regardless of whether it upsets certain individuals or not.

A message board historically pro active towards keeping everything BU positive suddey changes its stances upon the firing of a coach. This is classic putting a coach and personal interests above a program.

[Da Coach]

A columnist's job is to hold teams and organizations accountable for their performances. They're name is on everything they publish, there for all to agree or disagree. Just because you don't agree with his opinion does not mean he is undermining a regime. I expect DR and KW to provide the same unbiased opinion of a GF coached team regardless of whether it upsets certain individuals or not.

A message board historically pro active towards keeping everything BU positive suddey changes its stances upon the firing of a coach. This is classic putting a coach and personal interests above a program.

This is where you are 100% wrong- the tone changed for thousands of fans, not just a few on a message board. Just look around the arena. 3100 announced attendance for a regular season home game? We have never seen that in anyone's lifetime. Thousands fewer season tickets sold, and unable to sell out a game like the Michigan game? Maybe you are happy seeing that, but a lot of long time Bradley fans are not. Who would have believed this could happen to such a successful and well supported program like Bradley? I would argue that fans who are not happy with record numbers of losses are the ones who are putting the Bradley program first.
The people who were putting their own interests first were those who wanted to fire a coach despite the obvious fallout and misery that would ensue.

[Gary the Gargoyle]

Back to the topic at hand, in a very small sample size, Remy appears to be doing some things quite well at Indiana. Good for him. Although, with all of the talk about him as a PG, he only has 6 assists in nearly 100 minutes of play (two fewer than the number of three point attemts he has taken). This probably doesn't mean anything, but his overall shot attempts to assists ratio is 3 to 1. Bradley's current starting PG has a 2.55 to 1 ratio.

[Da Coach]

He is a backup, and he is only a part time PG. He fills other roles at IU, including as a spot-up shooter. So of course his shots to assists ratio isn't going to look like a point guard's. To judge him as a point guard based on those stats is not logical. Even Tom Crean has praised Remy's PG skills as well as what else he brings to their team, but IU also has other 5-star point guards.

[DeltaBrave03]

This is where you are 100% wrong- the tone changed for thousands of fans, not just a few on a message board. Just look around the arena. 3100 announced attendance for a regular season home game? We have never seen that in anyone's lifetime. Thousands fewer season tickets sold, and unable to sell out a game like the Michigan game? Maybe you are happy seeing that, but a lot of long time Bradley fans are not. Who would have believed this could happen to such a successful and well supported program like Bradley? I would argue that fans who are not happy with record numbers of losses are the ones who are putting the Bradley program first.
The people who were putting their own interests first were those who wanted to fire a coach despite the obvious fallout and misery that would ensue.

That trend was already taking place in JL's last two years. No one has ever stated they are happy with loses. Some felt the program was degressing over the last few years of JL tenure and that change was needed to right the ship and give BU the best chance to be elite rather than mid pack.

I also don't know who's personal interest it would be in to fire a coach resulting in fallout and misery. Trying to pass blame for a struggling basketball team onto to fans and columnists is just silly. You can blame coaches, players, administration, but not fans and columnists with zero direct control over decisions being made that affect the performance of the team.

[TheAsianSensation]

A few posts back Da Coach posted "no more talk about the past, only the future". Well how long did that last? Nice try Coach.

I think I was writing my post while he was posting that. Well, that's the bad timing award of the day.

[TheAsianSensation]

This is where you are 100% wrong- the tone changed for thousands of fans, not just a few on a message board. Just look around the arena. 3100 announced attendance for a regular season home game? We have never seen that in anyone's lifetime. Thousands fewer season tickets sold, and unable to sell out a game like the Michigan game? Maybe you are happy seeing that, but a lot of long time Bradley fans are not. Who would have believed this could happen to such a successful and well supported program like Bradley? I would argue that fans who are not happy with record numbers of losses are the ones who are putting the Bradley program first.
The people who were putting their own interests first were those who wanted to fire a coach despite the obvious fallout and misery that would ensue.

Ok, we don't fire Les, the program falls anyways, the same decomposition happens.

I really want to focus on that last sentence. Yes we knew firing Les would cause fallout. How bad, no one knew. But you're acting like everything would've been fine if Bradley did nothing. If they kept on the path with Les. We were headed down this path with Les anyways, the firing only accelerated it and gives us a chance to recover as soon as possible (notice I said only a chance, Ford may or may not be the right hire; we'll see).

You're completely ignoring the reason why the firing happened in the first place, only focusing on the worst-case scenario as a result of the firing.

I would say the true Bradley fans are the ones who realize that no one man, or one or two recruits, is above the entire program. They realize every individual season can't be analyzed in a vacuum - previous recruting and previous seasons and previous player development impacts the next season. They realize bottoming out is a risk, and it's never ever wanted or rooted for, but they also realize it's OK if - and I stress if - it leads to a full recovery and even stronger program. The people who are putting their own interests first here are the ones who try to still argue that the firing was wrong and keep dregging up the past.

[lefty]

you know I hope Abell does well.....heck I hope kids we don't recruit do well. Why wouldn't you? But he chose not to come here and that's fine.....people here follow him and talk about him more than the recruits we have.....that's what seems out of balance

[Da Coach]

Ok, we don't fire Les, the program falls anyways, the same decomposition happens.

I really want to focus on that last sentence. Yes we knew firing Les would cause fallout. How bad, no one knew. But you're acting like everything would've been fine if Bradley did nothing. If they kept on the path with Les. We were headed down this path with Les anyways, the firing only accelerated it and gives us a chance to recover as soon as possible (notice I said only a chance, Ford may or may not be the right hire; we'll see).

You're completely ignoring the reason why the firing happened in the first place, only focusing on the worst-case scenario as a result of the firing.

I would say the true Bradley fans are the ones who realize that no one man, or one or two recruits, is above the entire program. They realize every individual season can't be analyzed in a vacuum - previous recruting and previous seasons and previous player development impacts the next season. They realize bottoming out is a risk, and it's never ever wanted or rooted for, but they also realize it's OK if - and I stress if - it leads to a full recovery and even stronger program. The people who are putting their own interests first here are the ones who try to still argue that the firing was wrong and keep dregging up the past.

You are free to believe all that, but this is where we disagree. Many people believed Jim Les was just as capable of rebuilding this team as a new coach. And we all know the reasons he was fired. He was just 1 year removed for 5 winning seasons in a row, averaging over 20 wins per season. Now I know you will try to diminish that with all sorts of qualifications, but Bradley was a winning program, and might have been even much better, and had a couple more NCAA seasons if not for a number of key injuries to our star players. Plus, JL had a great recruiting class coming in that all but dissolved. Now we are waiting for year 3 after the change, hoping that will bring us back to respectability.
And for the university to spend millions of dollars of fans' donated funds on paying off the old coach, and overpaying for a new one was another part of what hurts the program. I will support the new coach, I have gone to every home game, and even a road game at IUPUI (how many of the critics even go to as many games?) and I have donated a lot of my money, so it's ludicrous to suggest I am not being a true fan. But like the thousands of fans who are not coming to the games any more, some of whom have stopped donating, there is dissatisfaction with the fallout (call it whatever you want) and the losing. How can you and others be so happy with where things are now with revenues and ticket sales lower than they have been in many decades.

Please note that I have never started a thread to make these complaints. I have only done so because the other side keeps trying to attack and blame everything irrationally, and even in this thread we have seen irrational attacks on a player who was a committed recruit (Remy Abell).
You are enitled to your opinions, but why is it when other opinions are voiced, some get so bent out of shape, hurl attacks and insults, and try to shout down those they don't agree with?

[Chico]

And immediately after he posted that he posted this -- http://bradleyfans.com/vb/showpost.p...7&postcount=54

Please, get off the cross Chico!

I'll come down long enough to say he posted that after 2 other posters couldn't stop returning, you know who one was, to the past.

[DeltaBrave03]

Again, no one is happy with the current situation of the basketball program, but they were also not happy with the program 3 years ago. You continue to push the idea that those who supported a coaching change are JL haters and happy to see the program lose which is simply false. I respect what JL did for BU and a lot of future success can in part be credited to him.

[electricmayhem]

There are a few points from several posters that I agree with. I also have my own thoughts.

-- I don't think JL should have been fired when he was. I was prepared to give him one more season to prove that he could lead sustainable success. I don't consider .500 as success, and the fact remains that he only crossed that mark in conference play in three of his nine seasons at the helm.

-- If JL had been back, SM would have been back, and I think last season goes totally differently. I have never believed that SM was a great difference-maker, but putting his leadership on a team, and taking scoring pressure off TB and DSE (who both shot very poorly) would have made a huge difference.

-- To me, there is no doubt that firing JL cost us RA. The trade is that there are a few guys that we probably wouldn't have had that are, or might be, major contributors. I'll call that a wash.

-- I am in full support of Coach Ford, and I have to remind everyone that JL was 13-15, 6-12 in his third season. Even as late as the losses @MSU and @INSU in the Sweet 16 season, nobody knew how that campaign would end. Had we not made the dance, would JL have been around until 2011?

-- Both sides of this argument includes far too much drama. The fallout believers take it to the extreme and never let it die. The fallout haters sometimes want to make it personal and engage in endless arguments with the other side. There needn't be a chasm between us. We should all be able to have constructive conversations about these things without beating horses to death.

-- I am 100% pro-BU, no matter who the coach is, what players are on the floor, or how many people are in the seats. I happen to live outside Chicago, and I can't get to many games any more, as family and life obligations take priority. I also don't have the financial means to donate as much as others. That doesn't make me any less of a fan. That is one argument I'd like to see disappear.

-- I appreciate what Da Coach does on this site. The information is outstanding and the forum is excellent. If you don't recognize what we have here, go to forums of other valley schools, or much higher-profile schools. We simply have the best fans on one of the best forums in the nation. We don't always have to agree with each other, but for the sake of Bradley University and the Braves basketball team, let's look forward to a day when we will be back on top of the Valley and dominating the league like we used to. It has been a long time - but we will get there again. We are a proud program with a great tradition. Five years from now, we will all look back at this and be thankful that we built a strong, clean program that competes every season.

GO BRAVES

Joe

[SFP]

Again, no one is happy with the current situation of the basketball program, but they were also not happy with the program 3 years ago. You continue to push the idea that those who supported a coaching change are JL haters and happy to see the program lose which is simply false. I respect what JL did for BU and a lot of future success can in part be credited to him.

I'm not happy with the results but I expected this so far so I'm not so disappointed. I do expect mass improvements though for next year. It appears we'll have our PG, I'll not count on a freshmen to be our shooter so hopefully someone else will also step up and we desperately need a JUCO big unless NW can step it up. The question is not so much for this year but next. Where should we finish in the Valley during GF's 3rd year?

[Da Coach]

There are a few points from several posters that I agree with. I also have my own thoughts.

-- I don't think JL should have been fired when he was. I was prepared to give him one more season to prove that he could lead sustainable success. I don't consider .500 as success, and the fact remains that he only crossed that mark in conference play in three of his nine seasons at the helm.

-- If JL had been back, SM would have been back, and I think last season goes totally differently. I have never believed that SM was a great difference-maker, but putting his leadership on a team, and taking scoring pressure off TB and DSE (who both shot very poorly) would have made a huge difference.

-- To me, there is no doubt that firing JL cost us RA. The trade is that there are a few guys that we probably wouldn't have had that are, or might be, major contributors. I'll call that a wash.

-- I am in full support of Coach Ford, and I have to remind everyone that JL was 13-15, 6-12 in his third season. Even as late as the losses @MSU and @INSU in the Sweet 16 season, nobody knew how that campaign would end. Had we not made the dance, would JL have been around until 2011?

-- Both sides of this argument includes far too much drama. The fallout believers take it to the extreme and never let it die. The fallout haters sometimes want to make it personal and engage in endless arguments with the other side. There needn't be a chasm between us. We should all be able to have constructive conversations about these things without beating horses to death.

-- I am 100% pro-BU, no matter who the coach is, what players are on the floor, or how many people are in the seats. I happen to live outside Chicago, and I can't get to many games any more, as family and life obligations take priority. I also don't have the financial means to donate as much as others. That doesn't make me any less of a fan. That is one argument I'd like to see disappear.

-- I appreciate what Da Coach does on this site. The information is outstanding and the forum is excellent. If you don't recognize what we have here, go to forums of other valley schools, or much higher-profile schools. We simply have the best fans on one of the best forums in the nation. We don't always have to agree with each other, but for the sake of Bradley University and the Braves basketball team, let's look forward to a day when we will be back on top of the Valley and dominating the league like we used to. It has been a long time - but we will get there again. We are a proud program with a great tradition. Five years from now, we will all look back at this and be thankful that we built a strong, clean program that competes every season.

GO BRAVES

Joe

Thanks Joe! I agree with everything you have said. And appreciate the compliment. Go Braves!

[lefty]

There are a few points from several posters that I agree with. I also have my own thoughts.

-- I don't think JL should have been fired when he was. I was prepared to give him one more season to prove that he could lead sustainable success. I don't consider .500 as success, and the fact remains that he only crossed that mark in conference play in three of his nine seasons at the helm.

-- If JL had been back, SM would have been back, and I think last season goes totally differently. I have never believed that SM was a great difference-maker, but putting his leadership on a team, and taking scoring pressure off TB and DSE (who both shot very poorly) would have made a huge difference.

-- To me, there is no doubt that firing JL cost us RA. The trade is that there are a few guys that we probably wouldn't have had that are, or might be, major contributors. I'll call that a wash.

-- I am in full support of Coach Ford, and I have to remind everyone that JL was 13-15, 6-12 in his third season. Even as late as the losses @MSU and @INSU in the Sweet 16 season, nobody knew how that campaign would end. Had we not made the dance, would JL have been around until 2011?

-- Both sides of this argument includes far too much drama. The fallout believers take it to the extreme and never let it die. The fallout haters sometimes want to make it personal and engage in endless arguments with the other side. There needn't be a chasm between us. We should all be able to have constructive conversations about these things without beating horses to death.

-- I am 100% pro-BU, no matter who the coach is, what players are on the floor, or how many people are in the seats. I happen to live outside Chicago, and I can't get to many games any more, as family and life obligations take priority. I also don't have the financial means to donate as much as others. That doesn't make me any less of a fan. That is one argument I'd like to see disappear.

-- I appreciate what Da Coach does on this site. The information is outstanding and the forum is excellent. If you don't recognize what we have here, go to forums of other valley schools, or much higher-profile schools. We simply have the best fans on one of the best forums in the nation. We don't always have to agree with each other, but for the sake of Bradley University and the Braves basketball team, let's look forward to a day when we will be back on top of the Valley and dominating the league like we used to. It has been a long time - but we will get there again. We are a proud program with a great tradition. Five years from now, we will all look back at this and be thankful that we built a strong, clean program that competes every season.

GO BRAVES

Joe

nice post...