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  • Time for clarification

    I know I have had some spirited discussions with some posters here in recent days over the state of the program, and particularly regarding Geno's coaching. But I think it's time to clarify a couple of things about how I feel about Geno.

    First, I have absolutely NO desire to see Geno fired after one year here. There have been many great coaches who have had very rough first years who have gone on to become great coaches with immeasureable success. So the first year rebuilding a program can be an anomaly in many cases.

    Those who have read my posts, particularly the ones that agree with me realize it's nothing against Geno personally, nor do we all think we need to make a change this early. Nothing can be further from the truth. And it does have anything to due with being pro or anti Jim Les either, and there are people from both groups who have differing views of Geno's performance within each group as well.

    The issue I and many others have with Geno is not the win/loss record (though most agree there should be a few more wins by now). The issue is his inability to adjust to the type of personell he has to work with right now. And believe me, a few more wins would make a HUGE difference in player and fan confidence right now. Even more galling though are these blowout losses by what is essentially the same team we had last year that rarely got blown out even when they had to deal with some heartbreaking losses. Trade AW for TB, and WE for SS and JS, and this is pretty much the same personnel we had last year that lost games by an average of single digits, not 30 points! And that's what is worrisome right now. We are digressing badly, not improving! And not to say that Geno can't recover from this. I still think he is capable. But I think is having trouble dealing with the intensity of the Valley, thinking that he can stick to a system which he feels could work in any conference. Good coaches realize that doesn't always work, and they can adjust on the fly. I feel Geno is a good coach, but he is learning, and hopefully he will do a little soul searching in the offseason to see how he can correct this quickly. If he realizes that adjusting to his personnel will help the program turn around quicker, he can easily salvage thinks quicker than people think.

    Let me just finish by saying that even if Geno makes a miraculous turnaround next year and he leads us to the first of ten straight appearances in the NCAA Tournament, that doesn't mean I would take back what I said about Geno for his performance this year. Everyone would certainly forget about this season, and we would all laugh about it. But looking back as his entire body of work, he would always have this one bad season that even the most seasoned coaches have every so often. Even Coach K and Tom Izzo have had a few "clunkers" here an there. But it's how he grows from this season that will be important.

    Oh, and btw, anyone who thinks we have the worst talent in the league, I can't say I agree with that. Do we have the talent to make a run to the top of the Valley. Of course not. But we have enough talent to at least be competitive enough to win at least the number of games we won last year, and most importantly to be competitive. So again, the overall record is not the most important thing to take from this season. It's how we are improving this year. And so far we are going in reverse, BADLY. The good news is that there is still some time left for this team to make some strides before the end of the year, and hopefully Geno can adjust and lead this team to better times, even this year.

    I hope this clarifies things for some people. I AM a Geno backer all the way, and hopefully he knows that most, if not all of us on this board are pulling for him too, even if we disagree with a few things.

  • #2
    Agree. I haven't seen anyone asking for a coaching change. Just frustration for what's going on. Nobody here has ever seen Bradley where we're at in our lifetime.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Da Coach View Post
      Agree. I haven't seen anyone asking for a coaching change. Just frustration for what's going on. Nobody here has ever seen Bradley where we're at in our lifetime.
      Exactly. It's just some people here missinterpreting us and others who believe what we do, thinking we are running Geno under the bus. But nothing could be further from the truth.

      I think we will be a much better team in a few years. But why we have to drop to this level of futility is beyond me. Plus it will probably take longer just to get back to last year's level consisting of a bad record, but at least competitive in most games. I just hope we can get that far next year.

      But anyway, time to put this behind us for a few hours to enjoy the Super Bowl.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Da Coach View Post
        Agree. I haven't seen anyone asking for a coaching change. Just frustration for what's going on. Nobody here has ever seen Bradley where we're at in our lifetime.
        I am only 49 and I have seen them a lot worse off!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by LarryBird View Post
          I am only 49 and I have seen them a lot worse off!
          Come on. Really?! You remember any other time where we have gotten blown out so many times like this? Especially at home?!

          As has been posted earlier, first back to back 30 point losses in Bradley's history, dating back over 100 years to 1909! And one of them to a very average Evansville team at home.

          Worst home loss margin in history, 37 points to Wichita St.

          Recordwise, yes, the first year of Coach Mo's run in 1992 was bad. But I don't recall blowout losses at home except to the elites in the Valley and to nationally ranked Utah.

          Yes, it's been bad before, but not quite like this!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Bravesfan View Post
            Come on. Really?! You remember any other time where we have gotten blown out so many times like this? Especially at home?!

            As has been posted earlier, first back to back 30 point losses in Bradley's history, dating back over 100 years to 1909! And one of them to a very average Evansville team at home.

            Worst home loss margin in history, 37 points to Wichita St.

            Recordwise, yes, the first year of Coach Mo's run in 1992 was bad. But I don't recall blowout losses at home except to the elites in the Valley and to nationally ranked Utah.

            Yes, it's been bad before, but not quite like this!
            OH COME ON! Before Versace this program was never ever thought to be a program that would compete with the top programs. Now we have more expectations and that is great but let us get realistic and realize the gap between Chet Walker and Hershey Hawkins!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by LarryBird View Post
              OH COME ON! Before Versace this program was never ever thought to be a program that would compete with the top programs. Now we have more expectations and that is great but let us get realistic and realize the gap between Chet Walker and Hershey Hawkins!
              First of all, I'm 42 so I'm close to your age range, and therefore I have a pretty good knowledge of Bradley history going back to the Hersey Hawkins era. Second of all, no need to shout. I wasn't shouting at you, just surprised at your original post.

              In response to your latest post, I agree that Bradley had a long down spell between the great teams of the 50's through the late 70's. But Joe Stowell, who was the coach for a good portion of that time most likely never had teams this bad. And since I'm most familiar with the team from about the Stan Albeck era onwards, I know Albeck ran a run and gun offense with no regard for defense. And that's what ultimately got him canned after that 8-20 season in 1991. Coach Mo came in in 1991, and compiled a 7-23 record, with a team where several players quit in the middle of the season because they did not like his tough coaching style and defensive system. Plus two of his players were kicked off the team after they got into a fight. So he had virtually nothing that year, and while he did suffer a few blowouts to good teams, he didn't have even the talent level that we have now. Plus even in that hideous year, his team was a lot more defensive minded than our current team is.

              Mo had a couple of teams late in his run that underperformed, but again nothing this bad, while Les never had anywhere near as bad a team outside of last year, no matter what people think of him. They certainly didn't get blown out like this all the time, even last year.

              So I stand by my original post and say this is the absolute worst I have ever seen this team. And others who post here who have been around a lot longer than I have could probably confirm this.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Bravesfan View Post
                First of all, I'm 42 so I'm close to your age range, and therefore I have a pretty good knowledge of Bradley history going back to the Hersey Hawkins era. Second of all, no need to shout. I wasn't shouting at you, just surprised at your original post.

                In response to your latest post, I agree that Bradley had a long down spell between the great teams of the 50's through the late 70's. But Joe Stowell, who was the coach for a good portion of that time most likely never had teams this bad. And since I'm most familiar with the team from about the Stan Albeck era onwards, I know Albeck ran a run and gun offense with no regard for defense. And that's what ultimately got him canned after that 8-20 season in 1991. Coach Mo came in in 1991, and compiled a 7-23 record, with a team where several players quit in the middle of the season because they did not like his tough coaching style and defensive system. Plus two of his players were kicked off the team after they got into a fight. So he had virtually nothing that year, and while he did suffer a few blowouts to good teams, he didn't have even the talent level that we have now. Plus even in that hideous year, his team was a lot more defensive minded than our current team is.

                Mo had a couple of teams late in his run that underperformed, but again nothing this bad, while Les never had anywhere near as bad a team outside of last year, no matter what people think of him. They certainly didn't get blown out like this all the time, even last year.

                So I stand by my original post and say this is the absolute worst I have ever seen this team. And others who post here who have been around a lot longer than I have could probably confirm this.
                I guess I can shout to the rafters and I will never get through to fans like you.So I will not shout and will be back in a few years to say that I was right

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by LarryBird View Post
                  OH COME ON! Before Versace this program was never ever thought to be a program that would compete with the top programs. Now we have more expectations and that is great but let us get realistic and realize the gap between Chet Walker and Hershey Hawkins!
                  Evidently you don't know your Bradley basketball history.
                  Last edited by Chico; 02-06-2012, 02:02 AM.
                  What part of illegal don't you understand?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Larry Bird sounds like a Sycamore name....Good game against WSU...
                    ... At the end, of the storm, there's a golden sky. And the sweet silver song of the lark. Walk on, through the wind, walk on, through the rain, though your dreams be tossed, and blown. Walk on, Walk on with hope in your hearts, and you'll never walk alone!
                    I'm behind you 100% Bradley Braves, You'll Never Walk Alone! BEAT STATE!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bravesfan View Post
                      I know I have had some spirited discussions with some posters here in recent days over the state of the program, and particularly regarding Geno's coaching. But I think it's time to clarify a couple of things about how I feel about Geno.

                      First, I have absolutely NO desire to see Geno fired after one year here. There have been many great coaches who have had very rough first years who have gone on to become great coaches with immeasureable success. So the first year rebuilding a program can be an anomaly in many cases.

                      Those who have read my posts, particularly the ones that agree with me realize it's nothing against Geno personally, nor do we all think we need to make a change this early. Nothing can be further from the truth. And it does have anything to due with being pro or anti Jim Les either, and there are people from both groups who have differing views of Geno's performance within each group as well.

                      The issue I and many others have with Geno is not the win/loss record (though most agree there should be a few more wins by now). The issue is his inability to adjust to the type of personell he has to work with right now. And believe me, a few more wins would make a HUGE difference in player and fan confidence right now. Even more galling though are these blowout losses by what is essentially the same team we had last year that rarely got blown out even when they had to deal with some heartbreaking losses. Trade AW for TB, and WE for SS and JS, and this is pretty much the same personnel we had last year that lost games by an average of single digits, not 30 points! And that's what is worrisome right now. We are digressing badly, not improving! And not to say that Geno can't recover from this. I still think he is capable. But I think is having trouble dealing with the intensity of the Valley, thinking that he can stick to a system which he feels could work in any conference. Good coaches realize that doesn't always work, and they can adjust on the fly. I feel Geno is a good coach, but he is learning, and hopefully he will do a little soul searching in the offseason to see how he can correct this quickly. If he realizes that adjusting to his personnel will help the program turn around quicker, he can easily salvage thinks quicker than people think.

                      Let me just finish by saying that even if Geno makes a miraculous turnaround next year and he leads us to the first of ten straight appearances in the NCAA Tournament, that doesn't mean I would take back what I said about Geno for his performance this year. Everyone would certainly forget about this season, and we would all laugh about it. But looking back as his entire body of work, he would always have this one bad season that even the most seasoned coaches have every so often. Even Coach K and Tom Izzo have had a few "clunkers" here an there. But it's how he grows from this season that will be important.

                      Oh, and btw, anyone who thinks we have the worst talent in the league, I can't say I agree with that. Do we have the talent to make a run to the top of the Valley. Of course not. But we have enough talent to at least be competitive enough to win at least the number of games we won last year, and most importantly to be competitive. So again, the overall record is not the most important thing to take from this season. It's how we are improving this year. And so far we are going in reverse, BADLY. The good news is that there is still some time left for this team to make some strides before the end of the year, and hopefully Geno can adjust and lead this team to better times, even this year.

                      I hope this clarifies things for some people. I AM a Geno backer all the way, and hopefully he knows that most, if not all of us on this board are pulling for him too, even if we disagree with a few things.
                      +1 and I'm also 42, so I get what you've seen.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Bravesfan View Post
                        First of all, I'm 42 so I'm close to your age range, and therefore I have a pretty good knowledge of Bradley history going back to the Hersey Hawkins era. Second of all, no need to shout. I wasn't shouting at you, just surprised at your original post.

                        In response to your latest post, I agree that Bradley had a long down spell between the great teams of the 50's through the late 70's. But Joe Stowell, who was the coach for a good portion of that time most likely never had teams this bad. And since I'm most familiar with the team from about the Stan Albeck era onwards, I know Albeck ran a run and gun offense with no regard for defense. And that's what ultimately got him canned after that 8-20 season in 1991. Coach Mo came in in 1991, and compiled a 7-23 record, with a team where several players quit in the middle of the season because they did not like his tough coaching style and defensive system. Plus two of his players were kicked off the team after they got into a fight. So he had virtually nothing that year, and while he did suffer a few blowouts to good teams, he didn't have even the talent level that we have now. Plus even in that hideous year, his team was a lot more defensive minded than our current team is.

                        Mo had a couple of teams late in his run that underperformed, but again nothing this bad, while Les never had anywhere near as bad a team outside of last year, no matter what people think of him. They certainly didn't get blown out like this all the time, even last year.

                        So I stand by my original post and say this is the absolute worst I have ever seen this team. And others who post here who have been around a lot longer than I have could probably confirm this.
                        I very much agree with your posts Bravesfan. I am 47 and IMHO, this is by far the worst team that I have seen from Bradley. Joe Stowell may not have had the most talent in the 1970's, but for the most part, the players were very well versed in fundamentals, and once in a while we knocked off some very good Louisville teams. With the early Molinari teams, it was evident that there was improvement at the end of the year as compared to the beginning. I am hoping to see some improvement next year, but I am not very optimistic until year three... If then even....
                        Bradley 72 - Illini 68 Final

                        ???It??™s awful hard,??™??™ said Illini freshman guard D.J. Richardson, the former Central High School guard who played prep school ball a few miles from here and fought back tears outside the locker room. ???It??™s a hometown thing. It??™s bragging rights.??™

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Beninator View Post
                          I very much agree with your posts Bravesfan. I am 47 and IMHO, this is by far the worst team that I have seen from Bradley. Joe Stowell may not have had the most talent in the 1970's, but for the most part, the players were very well versed in fundamentals, and once in a while we knocked off some very good Louisville teams. With the early Molinari teams, it was evident that there was improvement at the end of the year as compared to the beginning. I am hoping to see some improvement next year, but I am not very optimistic until year three... If then even....
                          I still get a laugh when someone says Joe didn't have good talent when he was coaching the Braves. IMO, that's a slap in the face to the good talent he had. When Joe took over from Orsborn, Bradley had just as good talent as anyone in the MVC.
                          What part of illegal don't you understand?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by LarryBird View Post
                            I guess I can shout to the rafters and I will never get through to fans like you.So I will not shout and will be back in a few years to say that I was right
                            Once again, I'm not throwing Geno under the bus! Did you not read my original post? We disagree on what the worst season in Bradley history might be, but I think we do agree that we are at least going to give Geno all the room he needs to turn things around. I just don't think Geno is having his best season when it comes to coaching decisions, and even he has admitted that during his postgame shows as of late.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Beninator View Post
                              I very much agree with your posts Bravesfan. I am 47 and IMHO, this is by far the worst team that I have seen from Bradley. Joe Stowell may not have had the most talent in the 1970's, but for the most part, the players were very well versed in fundamentals, and once in a while we knocked off some very good Louisville teams. With the early Molinari teams, it was evident that there was improvement at the end of the year as compared to the beginning. I am hoping to see some improvement next year, but I am not very optimistic until year three... If then even....
                              Thanks. I'm hoping we can get back to last year's season in terms of at least being competitive in losses, especially at home. Maybe not necessarily more wins though that would be nice, but at least not getting blown out by 30+ points in consectutive games.

                              Comment

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