More on NCAA scandals

[tornado]

The NCAA president Mark Emmert spoke yesterday at the NCAA National convention..

In a way he took credit for finding, catching, and penalizing offenders, and toughening rules...but is he really being honest?

Most of the scandals from USC, Ohio State, to Tennessee, Miami, to Penn State, and Syracuse, etc...were NOT caught by the NCAA and the rules those guys broke are not new rules or toughened standards...
In fact - the evidence is clear that most all of those HUGE scandals were in the brewing for years - that people knew about it, and that a coverup was in play at every one of those places!!! ALL the while the NCAA looking the other way hoping NOT to intervene - even when they were aware of what was going on!
This is just downright dishonest and embarrassing for the head of the NCAA to act like HE'S cleaning up college sports - his organization is enabling the cheaters and lawbreakers.

What's really happening is that the bloggers and sports journalists (Yahoo, USAToday, etc..) are the ones exposing what's going on!

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120113/SPORTS/201130349/Urgent-call-for-change?odyssey=tab%7Cmostpopular%7Ctext%7CFRONTPAGE

On the other front - the two BIG proposals NCAA is pushing thru at breakneck speed ("Emmert has talked often of the need for change and the importance of acting quickly..... the NCAA was moving too fast on two measures)...
proposals that GREATLY favor the big schools and will severely hurt the smaller, mid-major, and private schools...
Namely the proposals to give each athlete $2000 in spending cash per year and making scholarships 4-year deals.
Both of these rules will allow the best athletes to ever more be lured and landed by the biggie schools with stockpiles of slush-money and state resources behind them.

In the past year or so however we have seen Cam Newton get off scott free because the NCAA said it was actually his dad that was cheating and taking cash - so no penalties, we have seen laughably soft wrist-slap penalties for the Ohio State cheaters, we've seen where winning (at Penn State, Syracuse, etc..) trumps acting ethically, the Miami players who tooks loads of cash from boosters have been all but forgotten and unpenalized, etc...

I think Emmert is blowing smoke -- we need serious penalties for the numerous serious cheaters -- stop going after SEMO and Alabama State for miniscule issues - nail the real bad guys and stop counting your cash.

[TylerDurden]

If we're really being technical, the NCAA never really "catches" anyone. The entire system is one of self-reporting. The NCAA reacts to information they receive. They may uncover additional violations once they're there, but they don't go looking for them like private investigators. Some of those schools you mentioned likely never broke an NCAA rule -- sexual abuse scandals aren't in the NCAA jurisdiction.

Yahoo, on the other hand, is exceptionally good with its investigative reporting. They're by far the best in the sporting world.

Those proposals you mention have been in the system for a while now and are not being taken to a vote any faster than any other proposals. They've been open for discussion for quite some time. There have been several issues ushered through far more quickly.

Without knowing all of the facts, it's hard to say who gets penalized too harshly and who doesn't. It does seem to be slanted in a certain direction though. Also consider that many of the big boys hire former NCAA staffers who know the ins and outs of the system, which increases their likelihood of escaping the worst penalties. Life certainly isn't fair within the NCAA structure.

[tornado]

?? I disagree and believe that is TOTALLY wrong..

the two best examples I can think of are BOTH Bradley University

1980's - someone called NCAA and claimed Bradley had violated rules in the recruitment of Anthony Webster - the NCAA came unannounced to investigate and then nailed BU based on really soft & weak findings.
It has long been suspected that it was Anthony Webster and his family who cried foul and ratted to NCAA because they didn't feel they got what they believed was promised.

2005 - this example is even more amazing...
based only on a couple anonymous reports called to NCAA, they sent TWO investigators UNANNOUNCED to Bradley's campus demanding info, files, records, etc...
When they found absolutely NO evidence of anything wrong or anything to support what they suspected based on the anonymous calls..
they then asked to see more, and more, and more. File by file out of every drawer - the investigators searched until they found something to pounce on - the employment records, pay and hours..and then they nailed BU for it.

BU was never given the chance to self-report or do their own investigation and in BOTH cases - the NCAA clearly had their mind made up and had an agenda that Bradley was gonna get nailed and dug and dug until they found something to use to nail BU.

The only question that still remains to be answered publicly is who called the NCAA to rat on BU (in 2005) even tho NCAA actually found and ruled that those things that were snitched to NCAA were false, and were not the source for the NCAA findings of violations.
(in effect BU did self-report because they willingly gave NCAA the records of the Star Trucking employment but it was NCAA that showed up demanding to see them)
Those people who tried to bring BU down and ratted on BU were never noted publicly but their identity is known...

Without knowing all of the facts, it's hard to say who gets penalized too harshly and who doesn't....

-the NCAA does publish most all of the "facts" surrounding their cases

-but most of the facts are already quite well known as it is the bloggers and investigative journalists that uncover and find most of this stuff nowadays...it sure was with the Reggie Bush, OJ Mayo, Ohio State impermissible benefits, Miami football payments, UNC football players taking $$ from agents, and many of the other biggie "scandals"

-it is so overwhelmingly detailed that the big boys commit more of the worst violations and get off so incredibly easy that it hardly needs to be re-documented. If you say you still don't buy that the big boys get off easy after all that's known then nothing's going to change that now.

http://www.bradleyfans.com/vb/showpost.php?p=9107&postcount=1

[TylerDurden]

?? I disagree and believe that is TOTALLY wrong..

the two best examples I can think of are BOTH Bradley University

1980's - someone called NCAA and claimed Bradley had violated rules in the recruitment of Anthony Webster - the NCAA came unannounced to investigate and then nailed BU based on really soft & weak findings.
It has long been suspected that it was Anthony Webster and his family who cried foul and ratted to NCAA because they didn't feel they got what they believed was promised.

2005 - this example is even more amazing...
based only on a couple anonymous reports called to NCAA, they sent TWO investigators UNANNOUNCED to Bradley's campus demanding info, files, records, etc...
When they found absolutely NO evidence of anything wrong or anything to support what they suspected based on the anonymous calls..
they then asked to see more, and more, and more. File by file out of every drawer - the investigators searched until they found something to pounce on - the employment records, pay and hours..and then they nailed BU for it.

BU was never given the chance to self-report or do their own investigation and in BOTH cases - the NCAA clearly had their mind made up and had an agenda that Bradley was gonna get nailed and dug and dug until they found something to use to nail BU.

The only question that still remains to be answered publicly is who called the NCAA to rat on BU (in 2005) even tho NCAA actually found and ruled that those things that were snitched to NCAA were false, and were not the source for the NCAA findings of violations.
(in effect BU did self-report because they willingly gave NCAA the records of the Star Trucking employment but it was NCAA that showed up demanding to see them)
Those people who tried to bring BU down and ratted on BU were never noted publicly but their identity is known...






-the NCAA does publish most all of the "facts" surrounding their cases

-but most of the facts are already quite well known as it is the bloggers and investigative journalists that uncover and find most of this stuff nowadays...it sure was with the Reggie Bush, OJ Mayo, Ohio State impermissible benefits, Miami football payments, UNC football players taking $$ from agents, and many of the other biggie "scandals"

-it is so overwhelmingly detailed that the big boys commit more of the worst violations and get off so incredibly easy that it hardly needs to be re-documented. If you say you still don't buy that the big boys get off easy after all that's known then nothing's going to change that now.
http://www.bradleyfans.com/vb/showpo...07&postcount=1

There may be a lot of things I'm totally wrong about, but this is not one of them. Self-reporting comes from the entire system, not just one institution about itself. Perhaps I wasn't clear about that, but that's the type of system in place. Every example you posted indicates as much.

There is nothing incorrect about saying the NCAA doesn't "catch" anyone in the manner which I described.

You may have overlooked this part of my post in haste to post what you thought were contradictory statements/examples:

The NCAA reacts to information they receive.

Nothing you just replied with suggests anything other than the NCAA reacting to information they received. And I know for a fact that your account of the 2005 incident is incorrect.

I'm also well aware that the NCAA posts their report on infractions. However, not all of the facts are included in those reports and the majority of people don't read them anyway -- especially posters on message boards. Hence, "without knowing all the facts." I know that I don't sit and read the case reports on a regular basis...but even if I did, I wouldn't know all the facts.

I'll just say this one time for the record: Bradley is not now and has never been a target for some cloak and dagger NCAA investigation.

And with all respect due to you, but a hodgepodge message board post by you attempting to encapsulate a case is not well documenting anything. It's strictly your bias opinion -- which is what message boards are for.

[tornado]

but you stated the NCAA doesn't go looking for violations - they let the schools self-investigate

in an ideal world - that's how they want it to be -
BUT they absolutely do go looking sometimes....they come unannounced onto campuses and begin digging and never even notify the schools that they are coming - thus give them NO chance to self-investigate..
....just as they did to BU..
I gave you TWO well known & documented examples and all the rest are smaller schools and mid-majors..

if it's a big school NCAA gives them endless time - five years in the Reggie Bush case - and even then only after dozens of other schools had complained and numerous bloggers and investigative journalists had embarrassed the heck out of them by openly exposing facts that made it certain Bush was on the take and finally they were embarrassed into action..and they still dragged their feet..

There are numerous stories about how they favor certain schools and have tremendous bias - but it is clear each believes what he wants to believe

BTW I think that the people on message boards - like the bloggers ARE part of what tends to keep the NCAA somewhat honest because they can't shut us up like they'd like to...
If cheating is exposed like the talk in blogs and boards about the Ohio State players bragging in the tweets about cashing in their fame and jerseys for tattoos, and as a few certain message boarders have done in other cases...then the press acts and violations are exposed...

I can think of at least TWO significant issues regarding violations that were broke RIGHT here then later hit the papers and were finally acted upon by the schools...