67 BU - 68 WCU Final

[wily coyote]

Every official will tell you they have never made a make-up call, but I have seen a heck of a lot of them called.

BNC your comment is exactly what I posted earlier. It just doesn't happen with good officials.
Anytime a call is thought to be bad ( and there are some during every game) and the next call goes for the offended team everyone thinks that's a make-up call. That's just plain BS. Appearance is all in the eye of the beholder. It's a no win situation that officials will lose forever.

[tornado]

I have played basketball at a junior college level... and yes, I have officiated.....

You are being modest Air Petey -- if you had any eligibility left and could join the current Braves, you'd probably battle for some playing time at the post.

[LittleBrave]

I played ball, I've been an assist. coach at the JUCO level and I've officiated at the intra-mural level at Bradley. I will admit - I never wore a patch on my sleeve. But I have many friends that are officials and we have talked about this over a cold beer. These are high school, JUCO and college level officials and they have admitted to "make up" calls. You can be above the unwritten rule of "make up" calls but don't think for a second some of your partners did not help you out by correcting a mistake you made. I admire your service.... I understand it's a very tough job, but just because you don't = should not relate that it does not happen. With your erronous comment, I would guess full-time lawyer.... part-time official?

I would tend to agree with Air Petey here that it does happen - maybe it's just coincidence that 2 really bad calls come back-to-back, but I would think it's subconscious for an official who knows that he just made a bad call to correct it with a make-up call on the other end...to make it even. And some of these supposed "make-up calls" I've seen are phantom fouls or violations that the ref couldn't have possibly seen.
I would think the majority of head coaches would understand this too.
I can't say with certainty these are "make-up calls", but it seems pretty obvious to the avid sports fan - especially in basketball more than any other of the popular team sports.

I don't know the percentage - maybe it's more refs that DON'T do make-up calls than those who do, but sometimes what refs say and what they do don't align.

[AZ BU Fan]

Amazing how close BU is to being 9-2 going into the Michigan game tonight.

Would that have been more of a shock than BU being 5-6 right now

TO's, poor 3pt shooting and poor FT shooting are a symptom, not a cause, of BU defeats. They are a symptom of not having enough basketball skills.

Most of the PT this season is with players who have been on the team for more than this season, and, displayed these same tendencies in previous seasons. Won't say they can't improve, but, significant improvement may be a stretch.

BU has great kids, with great heart and even greater effort

BU needs more experienced players with more BB skills on the team than they have right now.

That will be what makes or breaks GF at BU..

PS Also amazing is BU getting to play Wisconsin and Michigan in the same year!

[LittleBrave]

Amazing how close BU is to being 9-2 going into the Michigan game tonight.

Would that have been more of a shock than BU being 5-6 right now

PS Also amazing is BU getting to play Wisconsin and Michigan in the same year!

9-2 would mean everything would have gone our way in those close games (aka - stars aligning perfectly)
I think we could easily be 7-4 right now though.

But IMO, we have played like a 6-5 team, but deserve a 5-6 record - we've shot ourselves in the foot and only have ourselves to blame for close losses.
This team has to get better down the stretch - it's been a pattern for BU over the last 4 seasons.

Was nice to have the SEMO & GWU games go our way for a change. To my recollection, those games didn't really come down to free throw shooting near the end.

[Beninator]

As I said in another thread, there were some coaching decisions that might be questioned, but I'll let that go. However, one that cannot be ignored was the situation just before halftime. Bradley had a 3 point lead, but WCU had the final possession of the 1st half. We only had 4 team fouls, which means we had 2 "fouls to give". Yet we never even attempted to foul WCU as they drained the 35 second clock and started their offense with 4-5 seconds left, and got a three point shot from the corner that tied the game at halftime.
A simple foul as they started the offense would have prevented that shot.

Interesting post. I know what you are saying DC, and god only knows I have criticized this staff, but I don't know if I would have one of our guys foul on purpose to close the first half. Walt can be foul prone, so I don't want him to waste a foul in that situation that might affect his playing time for the rest of the game. I guess we could have put Charron Woods in the game for that purpose, but I would rather have done a full court press in that situation and tell the guys to place an emphasis to defend the perimeter and take my chances going into the half. jmho

[lefty]

Interesting post. I know what you are saying DC, and god only knows I have criticized this staff, but I don't know if I would have one of our guys foul on purpose to close the first half. Walt can be foul prone, so I don't want him to waste a foul in that situation that might affect his playing time for the rest of the game. I guess we could have put Charron Woods in the game for that purpose, but I would rather have done a full court press in that situation and tell the guys to place an emphasis to defend the perimeter and take my chances going into the half. jmho

If I remember right DSE was guarding the guy with ball before throwing to the guy in the corner and he didn't have any fouls in the first half....I told MCD we should foul here if possible.......BUT it's not something you see often fouling at the end of the first half......most teams are in the bonus by then

[Chico]

I would tend to agree with Air Petey here that it does happen - maybe it's just coincidence that 2 really bad calls come back-to-back, but I would think it's subconscious for an official who knows that he just made a bad call to correct it with a make-up call on the other end...to make it even. And some of these supposed "make-up calls" I've seen are phantom fouls or violations that the ref couldn't have possibly seen.
I would think the majority of head coaches would understand this too.
I can't say with certainty these are "make-up calls", but it seems pretty obvious to the avid sports fan - especially in basketball more than any other of the popular team sports.

I don't know the percentage - maybe it's more refs that DON'T do make-up calls than those who do, but sometimes what refs say and what they do don't align.

Sure it happens. How easy is it to call a blocking or charging foul when it is such an touchy call to begin with and most fans who do boo at the call know it can go either way the majority of the time.

[wily coyote]

Interesting that you say that. I was given very good seats last night by a friend (I usually sit in the top of the lower bowl). I got to hear one of the refs explain his bad call to the usual front row fans during a timeout. He brought up that there had been bad calls earlier at the other end and it all cancelled out in the end. He thought nothing of it.

I was just happy that they weren't calling ticky-tack fouls. The game moved right along until the last few minutes.

Boogie time, its refreshing to hear an official would acknowledge he made a bad call. I made many in my career but I Never made one up to make it even. I have been in his shoes and I can ensure that comment was meant just for the benefit of the people in earshot. Those three didn't get to that level by making make up calls. He might have made that comment to the people near him but I guarentee he didn't tell that to the other two or his boss.

[Beninator]

If I remember right DSE was guarding the guy with ball before throwing to the guy in the corner and he didn't have any fouls in the first half....I told MCD we should foul here if possible.......BUT it's not something you see often fouling at the end of the first half......most teams are in the bonus by then

I can see yours and DC's side to this. I just don't like for us to intentionally foul that early. Interesting post and comments though.

[Air Petey]

Boogie time, its refreshing to hear an official would acknowledge he made a bad call. I made many in my career but I Never made one up to make it even. I have been in his shoes and I can ensure that comment was meant just for the benefit of the people in earshot. Those three didn't get to that level by making make up calls. He might have made that comment to the people near him but I guarentee he didn't tell that to the other two or his boss.

Boogie time.... I saw the official talking to Bud Ruff down by the cheerleaders after the bad calls. If that was the area you were talking about, I saw that also (Maybe your were sitting next to Bud in Stan Collins seats?). It looked to me like those 3 officials had not worked much together. Wily - you are the expert - They were correcting each other more than a few times after a call. Usually a team that works together will let a call stand and not correct it (Maybe once or twice in a game, but I saw it happen more than usual). Did you get that impression? I know they were good refs........ Just not a team IMO.

[Beninator]

Boogie time.... I saw the official talking to Bud Ruff down by the cheerleaders after the bad calls. If that was the area you were talking about, I saw that also (Maybe your were sitting next to Bud in Stan Collins seats?). It looked to me like those 3 officials had not worked much together. Wily - you are the expert - They were correcting each other more than a few times after a call. Usually a team that works together will let a call stand and not correct it (Maybe once or twice in a game, but I saw it happen more than usual). Did you get that impression? I know they were good refs........ Just not a team IMO.

I agree. There are times when I have seen an officiating crew huddle up to discuss a call in which one of the refs may have a disagreement. It certainly seemed as if those officials had not worked together though.

[wily coyote]

Boogie time.... I saw the official talking to Bud Ruff down by the cheerleaders after the bad calls. If that was the area you were talking about, I saw that also (Maybe your were sitting next to Bud in Stan Collins seats?). It looked to me like those 3 officials had not worked much together. Wily - you are the expert - They were correcting each other more than a few times after a call. Usually a team that works together will let a call stand and not correct it (Maybe once or twice in a game, but I saw it happen more than usual). Did you get that impression? I know they were good refs........ Just not a team IMO.

AP, I think you are correct. Thats the first time I've seen them work together and sometimes changing a call happens when their not used to working together. Sometimes an official will make a call that he doesn't have a very good angle and his partner will overrule him if he is 100% POSITIVE it was wrong. That's the
only time a call should be changed. One of the officials on the game was one of the better ones in the country.We call him Baywatch but his name is John Higgens and he made the worst call of the night in my opinion. JP rebounded a shot on the baseline opposite the visitors bench and was knocked out of bounds and baywatch gave it to WC instead of calling the foul. I don't think Higgens got a good look at that sequence but that sometimes happens.

[Bravesfan]

Amazing how close BU is to being 9-2 going into the Michigan game tonight.

Would that have been more of a shock than BU being 5-6 right now

TO's, poor 3pt shooting and poor FT shooting are a symptom, not a cause, of BU defeats. They are a symptom of not having enough basketball skills.

Most of the PT this season is with players who have been on the team for more than this season, and, displayed these same tendencies in previous seasons. Won't say they can't improve, but, significant improvement may be a stretch.

BU has great kids, with great heart and even greater effort

BU needs more experienced players with more BB skills on the team than they have right now.

That will be what makes or breaks GF at BU..

PS Also amazing is BU getting to play Wisconsin and Michigan in the same year!

Those are same great points AZ. I have said many times in the recent past that recruiting is critical in how well our team plays. I have said several times the past couple of months that we need to recruit players with great basketball skills, particularly those who know how to shoot the ball well. I know that doesn't always guarantee good seasons, but if players are recruited that are great shooters and rebounders, that's more than half the battle right there.

I think the previous coach did a solid job of recruiting, but while some of his recruits were good shooters, some were recruited for their athletic skills. Not a knock against him as a lot of coaches recruit like this. And maybe most of the players he did recruit were good shooters in high school, but for whatever reason it did not translate to the next level, at least not yet. But having great athletes with poor shooting skills does not always translate to wins. And at this stage it's hard to teach players to become good shooters. I would rather see Ford recruit players that are all good shooters even if they are not quite as athletic as others since players can become more athletic through proper training once they are here. And better fundamental players makes the rebuilding process a lot easier in many cases.


Smart play is what has made Butler the power they have been in recent years. And although they are reloading/rebuilding this year, Butler did pull off a nice win at Purdue the other day meaning they are not out of the mix for the Horizon title just yet.

[Bravesfan]

If I remember right DSE was guarding the guy with ball before throwing to the guy in the corner and he didn't have any fouls in the first half....I told MCD we should foul here if possible.......BUT it's not something you see often fouling at the end of the first half......most teams are in the bonus by then

True. But we did have that rare luxury of a couple of fouls to give. It's like not using timeouts in the first half of an NFL game. You can't take those unused timeouts with you into the second half.