BU Beats UW-Parkside 87-77

[tornado]

and Ben -- I didn't see the game as you did but I know you and know of your devotion to Bradley basketball and I fully view your words as a desire to be better ..and not really as a slam or attack...

[Braves4Life]

We disagree on some things, but I can not see a reason to put Walt as our point guard this year. Walt's contributions to the team are far greater at the 2 guard.

I agree with you here Beninator, but I applaud Geno for giving Walt a try at PG during the preseason. We don't want what happened last year (short handed at PG) to happen again. We saw what kind of season that led to.

Question: Where would Geno have to finish to justify his salary to you? Better than sixth? Or, is it black and white to you? Does he need to win the regular season and/or conference tournament first before he can justify that kind of jack? What if we finish in the top 3? We haven't done that in a decade plus.

[tornado]

I agree with you here Beninator, but I applaud Geno for giving Walt a try at PG during the preseason. ...

precisely -- now's the time to do it and watch him against outside competition -- same with using Nate and the other freshmen & mixing up rotations and combinations....and see how they do.
This is what the exhibitions are for.

[Beninator]

Question: Where would Geno have to finish to justify his salary to you? Better than sixth? Or, is it black and white to you? Does he need to win the regular season and/or conference tournament first before he can justify that kind of jack? What if we finish in the top 3? We haven't done that in a decade plus.

Good question and I will answer it this way. I don't blame Geno for his pay scale. I blame Bradley for that. So I think he is overpaid until he delivers for us. That being said here is what I would look for. I don't think I am being unreasonable here.

I give Geno a pass this year and all he has to do is prove to me that he can coach. (Jury is out with me on this for now.) I expect to see improvement next year with some of his recruits getting in the mix with some experience. I would like to see his system fully in place and a top half finish in the MVC. I would shoot for lets say fourth place here. Year three I expect big things given the contract he has signed. (MVC regular season or Conference tournament champion/NCAA appearance)

Seem fair???

[buschsquirrel2011]

precisely -- now's the time to do it and watch him against outside competition -- same with using Nate and the other freshmen & mixing up rotations and combinations....and see how they do.
This is what the exhibitions are for.

Geno also sees the team every day in practice and Walt every day in practice. I don't think he just randomly chose Walt to play if it wasnt based on something he's seen.

I don't worry about who plays what position. I want the best five players on the court for the majority of the minutes. IMO, Walt is one of the best five. DSE played the "point" much of last year and was fine. To me worrying about defining positions is counterproductive.

It's going to take more than one game to convince me of much of anything, good, bad or indifferent.

[tornado]

Ben -- here's a tough hypothetical....

Let's say TB has a monster year -- averaging 20 ppg and gets looks from the NBA..(just play along...)
Then also say DSE has a really good year (avoiding injury such as the foot injury that hampered DSE much of the first half of last year), and also gets on 1st or 2nd team All Conference...
..and a few other BU players have decent years...

Just how high in the standings would BU have to finish in this scenario for you to say Geno did a good job?
Wouldn't a 6-7th place finish with that kind of personnel reflect a bad job of coaching?
Conversely, if BU is in the top-3 would Geno get the credit or would someone finally blurt out the chilling phrase...
"gee JL actually had some pretty fine players there, too bad we never had the chance to see him coach them all when they were healthy."

[buschsquirrel2011]

I allow people to form their own opinions and I hope others allow me the same privilege.

Agreed 100%. I also don't get into labeling fans, trying to figure out where allegiances lie, or what TYPE of fan someone is.

If they say they are a fan, I believe it. I'm not in that person's head nor am I probably not in that person's inner circle of fans. I don't try to play amatuer psychiatrist with people's motives, etc.

All of us here are Bradley fans. To me that's pretty much all that matters.

[Chico]

Why do we have to have fan categories anyway. If you're a Bradley fan, you're a Bradley fan. Never went to a game and saw a Bradley fan cheering for the opponent. Stir, stir.

[tornado]

agree-- and I also labelled nobody at any time in this thread..but I do have eyes, ears, and a brain and don't believe everyone is the exact same degree of a fan just because they claim to be

[buschsquirrel2011]

Why do we have to have fan categories anyway. If you're a Bradley fan, you're a Bradley fan. Never went to a game and saw a Bradley fan cheering for the opponent. Stir, stir.

Well said.

[buschsquirrel2011]

agree-- and I also labelled nobody at any time in this thread..but I do have eyes, ears, and a brain and don't believe everyone is the exact same degree of a fan just because they claim to be

And as a human you also have emotion and bias which also plays a role in those things as well.

I just don't see how someone claims to know how "good" a fan is based on a few things. I guess if you personally know that person that would be one thing but I don't know.

No reason to analyze it. People are different. Humans are unique.

I don't know a single person who says they are a Bradley fan who is secretly not a Bradley fan and cheers or wishes for them to lose. I'm surprised you know these people.

[Chico]

agree-- and I also labelled nobody at any time in this thread..but I do have eyes, ears, and a brain and don't believe everyone is the exact same degree of a fan just because they claim to be

Didn't say you did. Why do we need degrees of fandom? We all want the Braves to be successful.

[tornado]

And as a human you also have emotion and bias which also plays a role in those things as well....

I assume you are saying we ALL have such bias...and that's what makes us different as fans...

and as for your statement that you see no difference between fans and all are somehow just as "fan" as everyone else...
I think that's fairly hard to defend when some "fans" are so incredibly negative

I need only cite the multiple so-called fans who stated to me personally that they hoped Bradley would lose and lose badly or quickly in the MVC Tournament last March - because they were afraid that if BU won the tourney they wouldn't get the firing of JL as they wanted...
..or cite the "fan" who chased me down at a BU game last season to ask me 'why was I so "pro-JL" -- did he owe me money or something...' - and that fan said he literally blamed ME because he believed if I didn't support our coach as I did then he might get his way on the firing of JL....
Sorry - but those people are not the same kind of fan that I am -- maybe you think so but I sure don't -- they clearly expressed that what they wanted was for Bradley to lose because it served their needs more (it stroked them the way they wanted) - -
If those fans want to call themselves "fans" then it's OK with me but they are a different "Type" of fan than I am

[buschsquirrel2011]

I assume you are saying we ALL have such bias...and that's what makes us different as fans...

and as for your statement that you see no difference between fans and all are somehow just as "fan" as everyone else...
I think that's fairly hard to defend when some "fans" are so incredibly negative

I need only cite the multiple so-called fans who stated to me personally that they hoped Bradley would lose and lose badly or quickly in the MVC Tournament last March - because they were afraid that if BU won the tourney they wouldn't get the firing of JL as they wanted...
..or cite the "fan" who chased me down at a BU game last season to ask me 'why was I so "pro-JL" -- did he owe me money or something...' - and that fan said he literally blamed ME because he believed if I didn't support our coach as I did then he might get his way on the firing of JL....
Sorry - but those people are not the same kind of fan that I am -- maybe you think so but I sure don't -- they clearly expressed that what they wanted was for Bradley to lose because it served their needs more (it stroked them the way they wanted) - -
If those fans want to call themselves "fans" then it's OK with me but they are a different "Type" of fan than I am

Yes. You are correct. We all have such biases. No doubt.

Wow, I am sorry you had those experiences. You have really bad luck when it comes to fans then. Or maybe you just need to have a lower profile at games

I've never had a Bradley fan or anyone I know say or do anything remotely like that to me. This is the first time I've heard of such encounters. That's really unfortunate.

I don't really understand why some people would spend their hard earned time, money, etc. if they have that type of reaction but to each their own I guess.

My condolences to you for those negative experiences. I'm thankful that hasn't happened to me.

[Beninator]

Ben -- here's a tough hypothetical....

Let's say TB has a monster year -- averaging 20 ppg and gets looks from the NBA..(just play along...)
Then also say DSE has a really good year (avoiding injury such as the foot injury that hampered DSE much of the first half of last year), and also gets on 1st or 2nd team All Conference...
..and a few other BU players have decent years...

Just how high in the standings would BU have to finish in this scenario for you to say Geno did a good job?
Wouldn't a 6-7th place finish with that kind of personnel reflect a bad job of coaching?
Conversely, if BU is in the top-3 would Geno get the credit or would someone finally blurt out the chilling phrase...
"gee JL actually had some pretty fine players there, too bad we never had the chance to see him coach them all when they were healthy."

Understand it is a tough hypothetical...

I set the bar very low for year 1 though. Player development is fairly easy to see on the floor. One of the things I liked about Coach Mo in his first year is that you could see the improvement with his players by January and February.

If Geno gets this team to a third place regular season finish in the MVC this year, I will fully admit that his pay was justified and that I was wrong.

There will always be divided opinion on the Bradley coach regardless of who the coach may be. I think that JL left this team with some fine players, but little depth. I know where you are going with this as far as what some people would say, but that type of statement (re: JL) would have to be proven over time when we see what Geno does with only his recruits.