The Fallacy of Nance and Packer's arguements

[Evolvehawk]

people miss the biggest reason Packer is wrong


he's wrong because the Big 12 and ACC has teams like Duke, KU, and UNC.


NOW, had he taken the last 2 seeds of the ACC and Big 12 and compared them to the valley, I think the comparison would have been much closer.


I was scratching my head on that one


the MVC played a flaw in the RPI by playing a lot of bad teams non conference, just no really really bad teams. KU's rpi was stung by a few wins over really low (<250) rpi teams, which hurt more than not playing the game at all

MVC got 4, I could see arguing that they should have gotten Missou State in over Air Force, but 4 bids really isn't a disrespect

[KansasisWright]

Air Force should be sitting at home, what a disgrace to leave out Michigan, Florida State, Cinncinatti, all teams that would absoulutely torch Air Force out of the tournament over a joke of a team in Air Force. The MVC got what they deserved, 4 seeds, I dont see what you guys are complaining. Not when Cinncinatti, Michigan, and Florida State are sitting at home.

[Evolvehawk]

Michigan finished 3-7 in their last 10.

Florida State showed up for 1 game this season.....Duke


they're second best win is against Miami, not even a tournament team


Cincy also had their fate in their own hands

I think Missou State deserved to be in over Air Force, but I'd pick Cincy over either

[KansasisWright]

I will tell you this right now, Michigan, Florida State and Cinncinatti would all finish top 2 in the MVC. Cinncinatti got beat because of a last second 3 pointer by Gerry Mcnamara, how can you penalize them for not moving on a miracle shot? When you finish 8-8 in the Big East, you best be getting a bid, its laughable how Cinncinatti got jobbed.

[Eddie]

I will tell you this right now, Michigan, Florida State and Cinncinatti would all finish top 2 in the MVC. Cinncinatti got beat because of a last second 3 pointer by Gerry Mcnamara, how can you penalize them for not moving on a miracle shot? When you finish 8-8 in the Big East, you best be getting a bid, its laughable how Cinncinatti got jobbed.

I appreciate your opinion, and we've heard it before from Billy Packer, Jim Nance, and their ilk. It would be easy to prove if you are right, all these teams have to do is schedule and play the MVC occasionally. Like Indiana and Iowa did this year. By the way, they both lost.

[Evolvehawk]

Florida State sucks

one game does not a team make

[BU fan]

Here is an assessment of the way Jim Nance and Billy Pecker embarrassed themselves last night

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=forde_pat&id=2366077&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab1pos1

[Da Coach]

Here is what Craig Littlepage, the chairman of the selection committee, had to say about Jim Nance and Billy Packer and how they treated him last night. I may not agree with all the decisions of the committee, but Mr. Littlepage has more integrity and class in his little finger than Jim Nance and Billy Packer will amass in their lifetimes.

http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/5393548

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/ncaatourney06/news/story?id=2367339

[user1]

I will tell you this right now, Michigan, Florida State and Cinncinatti would all finish top 2 in the MVC.......

Possibly true, but very speculative.
Where would George Washington have finished?
They ended the season 26-2, beat Maryland and several other teams and still ends up with a seed worse than the MVC teams.

Your argument that "Michigan, Florida State and Cinncinatti would all finish top 2" is like saying that I think

the Cubs would have finished as the pennant winner if they had been in the American League.

or
"Mario Lemieux would have won a Gold Medal in speed skating if he had only tried out for the Olympics."

Of course it doesn't cheapen the accomplishment of the guy who did win the Gold Medal, it's just pure speculative BS.
By the way, there was once a year that Bradley would have finished in first place in any conference in the entire USA except for the MVC, and since they finished 2nd behind Cincinnati in 1962 they didn't even go to the NCAA Tourney as they only took one team from each conference.

I think the hypocrites that are now making the argument the MVC teams don't belong, don't realize most of them and their allies have ARGUED HEAVILY IN FAVOR OF THE RPI being used for years because that's what they were counting on to help get their 5th & 6th place teams into the NCAA ahead of the top teams in the Valley and smaller conferences.

You can't have it both ways, it is hypocritical.
If you want a system to show a team's strength, then don't discard the system just as soon as it shows the Valley teams are stronger!!

[Grassman]

I will tell you this right now, Michigan, Florida State and Cinncinatti would all finish top 2 in the MVC. Cinncinatti got beat because of a last second 3 pointer by Gerry Mcnamara, how can you penalize them for not moving on a miracle shot? When you finish 8-8 in the Big East, you best be getting a bid, its laughable how Cinncinatti got jobbed.

You are so full of Kansas Dung, nothing you post any longer is even remotely credible!
You have "0" basis for this huge assumption.

[Evolvehawk]

They probably would finish high in the MVC

but playing in a second rate conference would destroy what recruiting base they have for the most part

[BuBraves55]

who said we were complaining kansias wright? i defintley agree that air force sucks to the point where evansville could beat them....is air force really > than cincy & others?

[SFP]

who said we were complaining kansias wright? i defintley agree that air force sucks to the point where evansville could beat them....is air force really > than cincy & others?

Has anyone seen AF play? The comment about AF sound like the same comments made about the mid-majors making the tourney. Just something to think about.

[Evolvehawk]

my entire point is this


Yes, if you put FSU, Michigan, or Cincy in the MVC THIS SEASON they would finish in the top 2-3 and would have qualified for the tourney likely.

However, these arguements overlook something. FSU played no one in nonconference and made arguements only because they beat Duke. If they were in the MVC they wouldn't have played Duke, wouldn't have finished THAT great, and would likely have ended up as Creighton, penalized because they didn't play anyone.

These lower level BCS schools only are able to recruit some better players than the MVC only because they are IN the BCS conferences for the most part.

If Cincy was in a small 2nd tier conference do you think they would attract any recruits? What about a school like Colorado?

What players they do get half the time go there because they'll get to play in a big conference in front of scouts, and weren't good enough to make the upper tier team's recruiting lists.

[SFP]

If Cincy was in a small 2nd tier conference do you think they would attract any recruits? What about a school like Colorado?

What players they do get half the time go there because they'll get to play in a big conference in front of scouts, and weren't good enough to make the upper tier team's recruiting lists.

Cincy was just last year in a "2nd tier conference." They recruited some real good players regardless. Kenyon Martin ring a bell! It maybe harder to recruit the Mc Donald kids but there are some pretty good players that go under the radar for some reason or the other. Case in point is POB, our center. There is not a team in the NCAA that would not love to have him right now.