Another candidate has emerged

[Da Coach]

So his time at UNLV doesn't count? He didn't do any recruiting while there? I did post earlier some midwest, even Illinois (central, southern, and Chicago), guys who made their way out to Vegas while he was on the staff there. But I suppose you skipped over that part.

Wow, if that is the best you could do, then you are really proving my point. First, the 3 players you claimed he recruited from the "midwest" in his 11 years at UNLV, we don't really know how involved he was in their recruiting, do we? And just because Rice was associated with Charlie Spoonhour for a few years, does not mean Spoonhour's midwest connections automaticaly rub off onto Rice.

But getting back to the 3 players you cited, only 2 of them were recruited from anywhere close to the midwest, and they were from Vincennes junior college over 15 years ago.-

Shawn Marion was from Clarksville, Tennessee, via Vincennes junior college in 1996. Vincennes is in southern Indiana, a long way from the Chicago area. But if you want to claim it as a midwest connection, so be it.

Though Keon Clark was originally from Danville, Illinois, he was not recruited there by Rice, since he was far from qualifying for D1. He was recruited from Dixie Junior College in Utah in 1996. (not anywhere close to the midwest).

And Tyrone Nesby was from Cairo, IL, but was also recruited to UNLV from Vincennes junior college in 1996.

So the last and only recruits you can name from the "midwest" are 2 guys (Nesby and Marion- since Clark doesn't count as he was recruited from a Utah juco) from 15 or more years ago, and came from Vincennes junior college.

So we can agree to disagree then. I would conside this to be proof for my point that he has no significant midwest connections.
And here is more proof, I just spoke to an Illinois high school basketball expert who is in the IHSA Hall of Fame and who is familiar with all the coaches and assistants nationally that recruit in Illinois, and he did not know who Dave Rice was.

It is also interesting that 2 of the 3 you named have gone on to lifetime of legal problems and stints in jail (Nesby and Clark). But I am not blaming Rice for that.

[JBinPeoria]

Don't understand all the obsession with Mid-Western ties. People are good at basketball all over the country. I want a coach that would be welcome into living rooms of the best recruits nationwide. When that is the case, I don't think the Mid Western parents and kids will care too much about whether or not he has "Mid-Western ties". I'd like a coach with national recognition and potential. Not some Joe Schmo who is well liked in the Midwest. I want to be a nationally recognized program. Not just a good program in Illinois. I don't even think you can be a good program in Illinois anymore without recruiting nationally and being respected nationally.

[Samd2]

I still like him, even though the midwest ties are weak, I think that weakness would be filled with an assistant that does have those ties and could fill the blanks. When I look back at the JL tenure, I think he had more success when he had strong assistants. CB and LF to be more specific. I think the assistant coaching staff is equally important as the head coach and I hope that cross takes that into any and all considerations. No GREAT coach does it alone.

[Da Coach]

Don't understand all the obsession with Mid-Western ties...

But you cannot deny the importance of being connected to AAU coaches and High School coaches in the area where you do most of your recruiting.

Note this tweet from Mike Mullins, head coach of the Illinois Wolves, the most successful AAU program in the Chicago/Illinois area. It was Sammy's AAU team and Bradley recruited lots of others from the Wolves. They have had dozens of other D1 players over the past decade, including some national Player of the Year candidates.
Mullins comments on why Ricardo Patton may not have had much success at Northern Illinois-

http://twitter.com/#!/wolves10/status/51629922388676608

Wish Coach Mark Montgomery NIU and asst Todd Townsend well at NIU-First day on job touched base-previous HC 4years never spoke with him -

26 Mar

[JBinPeoria]

Interesting tweet - I guess there is some importance. However, I don't think it is the be all end all. Sounds like contacting Mullins isn't so much of a "Mid West connections thing" as it is a "picking up the phone thing". I'm also sure that Mullins would gladly pick up the phone from any nationally recognized school/coach to provide more choices and opportunities for his talented kids.

[Interested Observer]

Wow, if that is the best you could do, then you are really proving my point. First, the 3 players you claimed he recruited from the "midwest" in his 11 years at UNLV, we don't really know how involved he was in their recruiting, do we? And just because Rice was associated with Charlie Spoonhour for a few years, does not mean Spoonhour's midwest connections automaticaly rub off onto Rice.

But getting back to the 3 players you cited, only 2 of them were recruited from anywhere close to the midwest, and they were from Vincennes junior college over 15 years ago.-

Shawn Marion was from Clarksville, Tennessee, via Vincennes junior college in 1996. Vincennes is in southern Indiana, a long way from the Chicago area. But if you want to claim it as a midwest connection, so be it.

Though Keon Clark was originally from Danville, Illinois, he was not recruited there by Rice, since he was far from qualifying for D1. He was recruited from Dixie Junior College in Utah in 1996. (not anywhere close to the midwest).

And Tyrone Nesby was from Cairo, IL, but was also recruited to UNLV from Vincennes junior college in 1996.

So the last and only recruits you can name from the "midwest" are 2 guys (Nesby and Marion- since Clark doesn't count as he was recruited from a Utah juco) from 15 or more years ago, and came from Vincennes junior college.

So we can agree to disagree then. I would conside this to be proof for my point that he has no significant midwest connections.
And here is more proof, I just spoke to an Illinois high school basketball expert who is in the IHSA Hall of Fame and who is familiar with all the coaches and assistants nationally that recruit in Illinois, and he did not know who Dave Rice was.

It is also interesting that 2 of the 3 you named have gone on to lifetime of legal problems and stints in jail (Nesby and Clark). But I am not blaming Rice for that.

First, I never claimed he recruited them alone. I clearly stated I didn't know who the lead recruiter was for them, but he was part of the staff that did. Also, if Charlie kept his recruiting contacts to himself he wasn't doing his job in the best interests of his program. I've never really heard Charlie conducting himself in an unethical manner, so I'll disagree with you there.

I guess I have to get one of those new maps you have. I always thought Indiana was part of the midwest, be it north, south, east or west Indiana.

So D1 coaches don't lead recruits they know won't be admitted to junior colleges they have relationships with? Remind me again how Sommerville got to his juco. And had Crawford even heard of the juco out in California before he was committed to Bradley?

D1 coaches only recruit junior college guys while they are in juco, not before when they were in high school? I did not know that. Thanks for enlightening me. And while they are recruiting juco transfers, they don't talk to the recruits' high school or AAU coaches. Got it.

Dixie Junior College may not be anywhere near the midwest, but it is fairly close to Vegas. How did Keon Clark know about Dixie while at Danville? I'm sure Dixie was sending him information daily while he was trying to make a decision.

Tisby and Marion went to the same juco? Color me shocked they both coincidentally ended up at UNLV. Sounds similar to the guys we got from the California juco.

You forgot to mention the last guy I talked about and he was the most recent. Unless your new map says otherwise Chicago is still in Chicago and Marquette is in Milwaukee. Are they still considered in the midwest? But I guess since D1 coaches don't talk to any of a recruits' prior coaches, only the current ones, this one doesn't count.

I'm glad you know an IHSA Hall of Famer. I know a few, too. A lot of people claim to be experts in their field, but don't know everything or everyone in their field. Since you clearly want to label Rice as one who can only recruit Mormons, if you knew anything about the LDS Church, they kind of like to keep their practices somewhat to themselves. Yes they go on missions to spread their faith, but the actual inner workings of the Church is very private. Why would the LDS Church recently build a rather nice sized place of worship in a small Illinois town that is predominately Lutheran and Catholic if not enough members lived nearby to support it? I never knew any Mormons while growing up there. I was rather surprised to see it when I was last in town. Maybe Rice has been in Illinois and your guy didn't know. Maybe there hasn't been any Mormons in Illinois worth recruiting to play at BYU.

So, if you're not blaming Rice for the indiscretions of Clark and Tisby, why mention them? We're not supposed to blame Les for the underage drinking and driving, domestic situations, or fighting are we?

[Buesch N Chips]

Looks like we have rustled up a few more experts. Always good to get different points of view. I enjoy it. Let's keep it civil so people will stay.

[AZ BU Fan]

FYI
After scanning threads from the past week, here is a list of potential coaching candidates supported by at least one BF.com poster:

Jerrance Howard
Matt Graves
Jim O'Brien
Rob Judson
Matt Graves
Barry Hinson
Robert Smith
Robert Jeter
Dave Rice
Brad Stevens' Twin Brother (if he has one!)
Billy Kennedy
Scott Sutton
Bill Montgomery
Dave Rice
Taveras Hardy
Bryce Drew
Dane Fife
Ray Giacolleti
Geno Ford
Paul Hewitt
Jay Sppoonhour
Tommy Amaker

I am sure I may have missed a couple here or there. Anyone else?

[shaunguth]

FYI
After scanning threads from the past week, here is a list of potential coaching candidates supported by at least one BF.com poster:

Jerrance Howard
Matt Graves
Jim O'Brien
Rob Judson
Matt Graves
Barry Hinson
Robert Smith
Robert Jeter
Dave Rice
Brad Stevens' Twin Brother (if he has one!)
Billy Kennedy
Scott Sutton
Bill Montgomery
Dave Rice
Taveras Hardy
Bryce Drew
Dane Fife
Ray Giacolleti
Geno Ford
Paul Hewitt
Jay Sppoonhour
Tommy Amaker

I am sure I may have missed a couple here or there. Anyone else?

Lusk?