A Jury of One's Peers - How Did Bradley Do Under Coach Les?

[Bravesfan]

The more and more you think about it, the more unfair it does seem that this was the year Les went given the injury issue, which was significant. But I suspect what happened was that he had the same ultimatum I had for my own expectations for him:

Going into this year, I said, "No more excuses. No more excuse is valid this year like they were in other years. This is the last stand. No matter what happens, no matter how good or bad, Les has to show results this year or go. This is the year we have to finally evaluate without thinking about luck"

Of course, we get screwed by the injury bug harder than probably every team in the entire country. But I committed to the idea of no excuses no matter what this year, and it seems like the admins stuck with it too.

It seems like they did. But like I said in the post above, no coach would have achieved greatness with this team with their top two all-conference players out.

[BradleyBrave]

He would still be the coach if we finished 6th.

Agreed. And while I was pro-change, I would have been on board with the rationale of retention had we mustered 6th, or probably even 7th.

[Buesch N Chips]

Agreed. And while I was pro-change, I would have been on board with the rationale of retention had we mustered 6th, or probably even 7th.

That's pretty easy to say, now.

[BradleyBrave]

That's pretty easy to say, now.

I said after the Duke game that I didn't think we were a play-in team.

And I didn't say I wouldn't have still been pro-change, I just said I would have been on board with the rationale. Had we retained him after this debacle I wouldn't have been on board.

Not sure what you're trying to stir up here.

[Buesch N Chips]

I said after the Duke game that I didn't think we were a play-in team.

And I didn't say I wouldn't have still been pro-change, I just said I would have been on board with the rationale. Had we retained him after this debacle I wouldn't have been on board.

Not sure what you're trying to stir up here.

Nothing. Nevermind. I'm sick of debating the same thing over and over. Hopefully the new hire will put us all on the same page.

[Buesch N Chips]

My biggest pet peeve on this site is when a new member starts their first post in the negative.

It might mean that someone is returning after being banned under another name.

[TheAsianSensation]

It seems like they did. But like I said in the post above, no coach would have achieved greatness with this team with their top two all-conference players out.

That's the thing - they decided the first 8 years were so marginal, that Les had to overachieve in '09. The argument being he lost the benefit of the doubt in the body of work in the first 8 years.

[Bravesfan]

My biggest pet peeve on this site is when a new member starts their first post in the negative.

I could spin it either way and most of us have. Using an analytical approach it seems they pulled the plug a bit early. If they gave the JL experiment one more year and it did not produce they would have had a much better reception. The dismissal was done on pure speculation and emotion. When dealing with humans I prefer analytics over emotion as the reasonable choice. I deal with huge egos on a daily basis and I have seen them make disastrous decisions based on emotions. Will this be a disaster? Time will tell but the first step to prevent a disaster is a great contingency plan and besides the search service it seems one was not in place.

All great points SFP!

[Bravesfan]

[QUOTE=BraveGrad;224042]

My biggest pet peeve on this site is when a new member starts their first post in the negative. QUOTE]

Feel free to block me

People won't block you if you make rational arguments on why you feel it was time for Les to go. But when you come on here with your first few posts mocking people who felt Les was fired a year too early, then you don't start off on the right foot.

If you have a concrete argument supporting why the Les firing was appropriate at this time, then feel free to post it. But don't tick off half the people here by making smug comments that have already been posted way too many times here!

[Bravesfan]

That's the thing - they decided the first 8 years were so marginal, that Les had to overachieve in '09. The argument being he lost the benefit of the doubt in the body of work in the first 8 years.

Then they should have fired him after last year. But you know, whatever. What's done is done. Now they HAVE to make the correct hire or else things will only get much worse around here before they get better. Hopefully we will hear something soon.

[tornado]

Every time someone does a ranking of mid-majors or something of the kind...
they always end up showing Bradley at the top of the heap....

-Midmajority.com did it and scored on an objective point scale and Bradlet was #1 out of 276 non-BCS schools

-examiner did it and Midstatehoops did -- always the same result --BU's one of the best

-likewise, NCAA keeps travk of wins, attendance, post-season appearances, etc....and BU ranks way ahead of most non-BCS..

-I think if you take any short stretch hampered by injuries, and by a coach being forced to work without being able to choose his own staff -- you might find slightly different results...
but from 2005 thru last year BU had won more Valley games and more tournamernt games than any MVC school except CU, UNI and they had won only a couple more league games.

http://bubravesblogger.blogspot.com/2010/02/winning-just-comparison-with-other.html

[AE Braves Fan]

Shhhh.... Les never finished higher than 4th!!! He's nothing without that NIT auto-bid!!!

[Da Coach]

It might mean that someone is returning after being banned under another name.

Bingo.

[KillerB]

We can stop trying to justify the firing, and we can also stop criticizing it.

Problem is, as more and more players ask for their release, the same emotions from both sides will bubble up. Anti-JL people will be frustrated so they will take it out on the players, pro-JL people will be frustrated so they will take it out on the admin. It's very predictable.

This is all that needs to be said about this thread.

[TheAsianSensation]

Every time someone does a ranking of mid-majors or something of the kind...
they always end up showing Bradley at the top of the heap....

-Midmajority.com did it and scored on an objective point scale and Bradlet was #1 out of 276 non-BCS schools

-examiner did it and Midstatehoops did -- always the same result --BU's one of the best

-likewise, NCAA keeps travk of wins, attendance, post-season appearances, etc....and BU ranks way ahead of most non-BCS..

-I think if you take any short stretch hampered by injuries, and by a coach being forced to work without being able to choose his own staff -- you might find slightly different results...
but from 2005 thru last year BU had won more Valley games and more tournamernt games than any MVC school except CU, UNI and they had won only a couple more league games.
http://bubravesblogger.blogspot.com/...ith-other.html

#11 on midmajority, not #1, assume that's a typo...

But on the other hand, if we won more Valley games than all but 2 schools, why don't we have a single top 3 finish in conference or a tournament title to show for it? If our underlying numbers are that good, shouldn't there be a single top 3? I'm not even asking about consistent top 3s, which is too much to ask, but just one. One.


As for this specific sentence...

-likewise, NCAA keeps travk of wins, attendance, post-season appearances, etc....and BU ranks way ahead of most non-BCS..

Attendance is always a hallmark of BU and I'd like to think it doesn't matter who the coach is, because this will always be solid. Even this year's numbers, while they dipped, were still solid, IMO.

Postseason appearances is a very deceiving number. The first year the CBI existed, when we missed the top 2 postseason tourneys, we got in to the CBI. The first year the CIT existed, when we missed the top 3 postseason tourneys, we got into the CIT. To me, you can't overvalue 2 of those 4 postseason appearances, because even just 5 years ago, neither one existed, and if those 2 particular season even happened 5 years ago, we would've have had those two postseasons and BU's overall accomplishments would've been a lot more pale.


I've always said this: everyone needs to be careful citing their own stats and numbers as to why the Les Era was good or bad. Single numbers, records, no single thing tells a complete story in itself.