A Jury of One's Peers - How Did Bradley Do Under Coach Les?

[Dallas Brave]

Gonzaga and Butler are commonly used as measuring sticks for Bradley’s basketball program. After which, debate ensues with some posters arguing that it is unfair to compare Bradley to what are arguably the two best mid-major programs out there … even though it doesn’t seem that long ago that Bradley was considered a close equal to Butler.

So let’s look at Bradley’s 9 year record (i.e., the years under Coach Les) against a larger cross-section of mid-majors that, in my opinion, are Bradley’s peers. By my definition, peer mid-majors are other non-BCS programs, mostly private schools, that are recognized as having respectable basketball teams more often than not. I included all MVC teams as well.

Decide for yourself if Bradley’s program has been successful. Quite frankly, Bradley fared far worse than I thought they would. One disappointing fact is that Bradley’s W/L is the 6th best in the MVC during this time and is significantly lower than the 5th place record of Missouri State. Also among MVC schools, the number of losing seasons (i.e., below .500 for all games in a season) by team over this nine year span are Creighton (0), SIU (2), No Iowa (1), WSU (1), MSU (1), BU (4), Ill St (5), Drake (6), Ind. St (7), and Evansville (7). There is a clear line of demarcation between the schools that performed well over this time (Creighton through Missouri State) and the teams that did poorly (Bradley through Evansville)

School , Total W-L %, Best Record, Worst Record, (Losing Seasons)

1 Gonzaga, 232-62 79%, 28-3, 23-11, (0)
2 Utah St, 226-70 76%, 30-4, 23-12, (0)
3 Butler, 218-78 74%, 33-5, 13-15, (1)
4 Xavier, 208-86 71%, 30-7, 17-12, (0)
5 VCU, 208-86 71%, 28-7, 19-13, (0)
6 St. Mary’s, 198-91 69%, 28-6, 14-14, (0)
7 Old Dominion, 202-94 68%, 28-6, 12-15, (1)
8 Creighton, 200-95 68%, 27-5, 18-16, (0)
9 Davidson, 193-92 68%, 29-5, 16-15, (0)
10 Western Ky, 196-95 67%, 29-7, 16-16, (0)
11 Belmont, 188-96 66%, 30-5, 14-16, (1)
12 Dayton, 195-100 66%, 27-8, 14-17, (1)
13 George Mason, 189-102 65%, 27-7, 17-15, (0)
14 So. Ill., 186-105 64%, 25-5, 13-19, (2)
15 No. Iowa, 184-105 64%, 30-5, 10-17, (1)
16 Wichita St, 183-111 62%, 26-8, 11-20, (1)
17 IUPUI, 177-109 62%, 26-7, 15-15, (0)
18 Missouri St, 177-116 61%, 26-8, 11-20, (1)
19 Temple, 176-115 60%, 29-6, 12-18, (1)
20 Wisc-Milwaukee, 169-114 60%, 26-6, 9-22, (2)
21 St. Joseph’s, 173-119 59%, 30-2, 11-22, (2)
22 Siena, 166-120 58%, 27-7, 6-24, (2)
23 Bucknell, 157-121 56%, 27-5, 7-23, (5)
24 Drexel, 154-120 56%, 23-9, 12-20, (2)
25 Richmond, 160-128 56%, 29-7, 8-22, (3)
26 Tulsa, 158-131 55%, 25-11, 9-20, (3)
27 Rider, 151-126 55%, 23-11, 8-20, (2)
28 St. Louis, 149-135 52%, 23-13, 9-21, (2)
29 Bradley, 154-140 52%, 22-11, 12-20, (4)
30 Illinois St, 142-138 51%, 25-10, 8-21, (5)
31 Ill-Chicago, 138-140 50%, 24-8, 7-24, (3)
32 Drake, 135-143 49%, 28-5, 9-19, (6)
33 Loyola-Chicago, 133-143 48%, 21-11, 9-20, (6)
34 Indiana St., 116-163 42%, 20-14, 7-24, (7)
35 Evansville, 105-162 39%, 17-14, 7-22, (7)
36 Northern Ill., 97-168 37%, 17-11, 6-22, (7)
37 Loyola-Marymount, 100-177 36%, 18-16, 3-28, (7)

[amckillip]

Please rank that same list by NCAA wins.

[lake Camelot]

Well it is interesting, but just W-L can't really compare these schools. There are different levels of schedule difficulty.

Honestly I couldn't believe ISU was by us they played nobody. I would think they would be much higher.

[Dallas Brave]

Please rank that same list by NCAA wins.

Those are NCAA wins over the last nine years

[amckillip]

Those are NCAA wins over the last nine years

NCAA Tourney wins, sorry.

[BradleyBrave]

We maintained the status quo since 1996. The status quo got the previous guy fired.

A couple of flukey wins in March of 2006 doesn't change 9 years of maintaining the status quo, specifically the past 5 when we were supposed to be reaping the significant benefits of those flukey wins.

If it was a grade, it would be a C. C is still passing. I don't want to just pass though.

[Da Coach]

Here is a serious analysis by Midmajority.com to rank the 263 non-power conference schools over the past 6 years. Bradley is ranked 11th out of 263-

http://www.midmajority.com/tmm100

and their analysis did not even consider all the injuries, especially the TB and SM ones that caused this season's poor finish.

And before the fire-JL people start twisting reality and saying silly things like some of us are content with mediocrity, or happy with 4th place or last place finishes, how is next season shaping up?
Some fans were able to foresee the exodus of key players and recruits, and the dismantling of a team that was capable of winning the MVC next year, and turning it into a national joke, and a certain long rebuilding project.

[Dallas Brave]

Here is a serious analysis by Midmajority.com to rank the 263 non-power conference schools over the past 6 years. Bradley is ranked 11th out of 263-

http://www.midmajority.com/tmm100

and their analysis did not even consider all the injuries, especially the TB and SM ones that caused this season's poor finish.

And before the fire-JL people start twisting reality and saying silly things like some of us are content with mediocrity, or happy with 4th place or last place finishes, how is next season shaping up?
Some fans were able to foresee the exodus of key players and recruits, and the dismantling of a team that was capable of winning the MVC next year, and turning it into a national joke, and a certain long rebuilding project.

Everyone can use whatever set of criteria they wish. Some people think making it to the S16 once in 9 years is the measuring stick. I simply posted the 9 year records for the mid-major schools that I consider our peers. Many of them had injuries, coaching changes, and one or more losing seasons.

[lake Camelot]

Some fans were able to foresee the exodus of key players and recruits, and the dismantling of a team that was capable of winning the MVC next year, and turning it into a national joke, and a certain long rebuilding project.

Yes, I saw the possibility of an exodus of recruits. I didn't know Sam could transfer without sitting out. I missed that. That is not a good enough reason not to make the move for me. It will always happen when there is change. I didn't think we had a MVC champ in waiting. You may have good reasons to not make a move if you think coach Les was doing a good job or deserved another year. But I don't think the fallout is a good reason not to make a move.

[Dallas Brave]

Here is a serious analysis by Midmajority.com to rank the 263 non-power conference schools over the past 6 years. Bradley is ranked 11th out of 263-

http://www.midmajority.com/tmm100

and their analysis did not even consider all the injuries, especially the TB and SM ones that caused this season's poor finish.

And before the fire-JL people start twisting reality and saying silly things like some of us are content with mediocrity, or happy with 4th place or last place finishes, how is next season shaping up?
Some fans were able to foresee the exodus of key players and recruits, and the dismantling of a team that was capable of winning the MVC next year, and turning it into a national joke, and a certain long rebuilding project.

Also, while I was of the opinion to give JL one more year, the decsion to let him go was justifiable based on his results ... especialy his results this last year regardless of injuries. In my opinion, the injuries keep the Baves from competing for the conference title. Coaching resulted in a last place finish.

[Da Coach]

Also, while I was of the opinion to give JL one more year, the decsion to let him go was justifiable based on his results ... especialy his results this last year regardless of injuries. In my opinion, the injuries keep the Baves from competing for the conference title. Coaching resulted in a last place finish.

If we are going to blame every result on the coaching, then we also have to acknowledge that Jim Les' coaching was good enough to get Bradley to the Sweet 16 in 2006, which coincidentally was the last season not affected by serious injuries to key players.

I keep getting accused of not moving on, what's done is done....
But then why are we re-hashing the evaluation of Jim Les again?
Let's move on. I just wanted to remind people that there were fans who could see this mess looming. It just did not make sense firing Jim Les when he was getting TB and SM back healthy, and with perhaps his best recruits coming in that he's had yet. But then some were so desperate to get rid of the coach that they are happy with the prospect of being the worst team in the league for years to come.

[Bravesfan]

Everyone can use whatever set of criteria they wish. Some people think making it to the S16 once in 9 years is the measuring stick. I simply posted the 9 year records for the mid-major schools that I consider our peers. Many of them had injuries, coaching changes, and one or more losing seasons.

Okay, that's fine. But again, as others have alluded to here, what about the fact that we definitely could have been a contending team in the Valley next season? Does that not count for something?

Who cares about the last 9 years. Next year had some very good if not great potential to be special!

[Bravesfan]

Yes, I saw the possibility of an exodus of recruits. I didn't know Sam could transfer without sitting out. I missed that. That is not a good enough reason not to make the move for me. It will always happen when there is change. I didn't think we had a MVC champ in waiting. You may have good reasons to not make a move if you think coach Les was doing a good job or deserved another year. But I don't think the fallout is a good reason not to make a move.

Yes, but would you be happy with two or three potentially bad years like Mark Phelps is going through at Drake, with no immediate sign of them getting better? Perhaps in two years, maybe towards the end of next year I can see Drake making a run as they have a good young core and solid recruiting class. But it's been nothing but misery there following their run in 2008! And the same thing could happen to us for the next few years. Maybe we'll get lucky and get a great coach that can get some good players in here quickly, but usually it doesn't work out like that, especially at this level to teams that don't have a big streak of NCAA Tournament appearances like a Xavier or Gonzaga.

[Dallas Brave]

Okay, that's fine. But again, as others have alluded to here, what about the fact that we definitely could have been a contending team in the Valley next season? Does that not count for something?

Who cares about the last 9 years. Next year had some very good if not great potential to be special!

I'm a huge Cubs too! But let's keep the discussion about the Braves!

[lake Camelot]

Yes, but would you be happy with two or three potentially bad years like Mark Phelps is going through at Drake, with no immediate sign of them getting better? Perhaps in two years, maybe towards the end of next year I can see Drake making a run as they have a good young core and solid recruiting class. But it's been nothing but misery there following their run in 2008! And the same thing could happen to us for the next few years. Maybe we'll get lucky and get a great coach that can get some good players in here quickly, but usually it doesn't work out like that, especially at this level to teams that don't have a big streak of NCAA Tournament appearances like a Xavier or Gonzaga.

I'd rather not, but if bunches of players leave then it may come to that. If we are getting some decent players and improving, I will get excited and look forward to the future. It could take a while depending on how much of our team has to be replaced. Or I suppose a new coach could still convince the players to stay and we still could have a good team.