How Good Is the BU Job?

[Missouri Brave]

It's a question worth asking, in my view, as we wait to see who our new head coach will be. Personally, I think it is an outstanding job - perhaps one of the top 50 in the country - with great fan support, tremendous tradition and membership in a pretty good conference.

That said, having grown up as a Braves fan, I'm incredibly biased.

Over on the Princeton board this week, I posted a question wondering about the likelihood of their coach, Sydney Johnson, coming to BU. Many of the folks seemed insulted that the folks at BU would expect Johnson to even consider leaving Princeton for Peoria.

Yesterday I was out with a buddy watching the games - a very smart basketball guy - and he firmly believes that the Princeton and Bradley jobs are quite comparable. He conceded that the MVC is way, way better than the Ivy but felt Princeton has had far more success than BU during the past 20 years. I agree with him on both counts. He added that there is not a single other Ivy program that he would consider to be on par with BU, only Princeton.

In a very longwinded fashion (sorry), this leads me to two questions:

1. Which of the MVC jobs are truly better than the head coaching position at Princeton? I feel very comfortable saying Bradley, Creighton and Wichita are. UNI, SIU and Illinois State can all be debated, as can Missouri State (though I'd lean "no" here). Definitely in the "No" category for me are Drake, Evansville and Indiana State.

2. Are we overrating BU? I don't think so, but I'm asking. If I were arguing that the BU job is overrated, I'd note the following:

a) Only five NCAA tournament appearances - and just three wins - since 1955. Think about that for a moment. Five trips to the Big Dance in 55 years. There's no way to color that as impressive.

b) While Bradley has been to the NIT 16 times since 1955, we've been just nine times since the 1957-65 glory run ended (and the NIT was still considered a top-tier tournament).

c) Let's start with 1980: Does 13 postseason trips in 31 years sound impressive? It doesn't sound terrible to me, but it certainly doesn't bowl me over either, especially when we've just been to the ultimate - the NCAA tournament - five times in that span. (And I think we'd all agree that we shouldn't count the CBI and CIT).

The truth is this, in my mind: Bradley is still a very good job but it's lost a lot of its luster since the mid-1960s and has fallen pretty hard since The Hawk and JL were wearing their short shorts on the hardwood.

I wholly believe that this program can turn into a Butler or Gonzaga. There's not a doubt in my mind. But we've got to get the right man for the job.

Molinari and Les did some real good things and both had stretches that brought great excitement to the program BUT we can't live with another decade-long run with just one NCAA appearance. It's happened with two coaches in a row and a third stretch like that could really set us back.

[Braves4Life]

I TOTALLY agree with you Mizzou....... And the answer to your question will be answered very soon when we find out who our next coach will be.

[Missouri Brave]

Thanks B4L. When you look back at it, both Molinari and JL had golden opportunities to build, to capitalize on NCAA tournament appearances though neither were able to get back to that point (in fairness to JL, Bradley probably makes at least one more NCAA trip if POB decides to stay in school).

[RaiderOfBradley]

MB, I would say you are letting your BU bias show. To call the Bradley program one of the Top 50 jobs in the country borders on delusional. ELEVEN teams from the Big East just made the NCAAs, all with much better fan support, at the minimum equal tradition (Notre Dame? UConn? these ring a bell?) and (oh yeah) membership in a "pretty good" conference.

That knocks your list down to 39, now. Even if you take the top four teams from the Big 10, the ACC, the SEC and the Big 12 (yes, not a traditional basketball power, but good support for Kansas and Texas, among others), your list is now down to 23 (and I am sure that you can go deeper in those conferences than the top four). Is Bradley one of the top 23 remaining? I would suggest not.

One of the problems that I constantly see here at BF is a tremendous disconnect with reality. This is 2011, not the 1950s or even the 1980s. We are five years removed from the last real success of a Bradley basketball squad, and some people even complain about that because the team only finished fourth in the conference and didn't win the MVC tournament.

In your other thread regarding "Princeton v. Bradley," I pointed out that, since 1990, Princeton has been to the NCAAs nine times versus Bradley's two. Another poster pointed out that, as far as conference rankings go, the MVC is twelfth in the nation versus the Ivy League's fifteenth. These aren't great on either side and certainly do not reach "pretty good" status (they are around the middle, in acuality).

Here's what Bradley is: an excellent academic institution in a solid conference that has not been successful in its high profile sport (basketball) in the last thirty years. Whoever the new coach will be will have a hard road to run because we aren't one of the Top 50 jobs in the country and, considering our recent lack of success, may not even be Top 100.

[amckillip]

MB, I would say you are letting your BU bias show. To call the Bradley program one of the Top 50 jobs in the country borders on delusional. ELEVEN teams from the Big East just made the NCAAs, all with much better fan support, at the minimum equal tradition (Notre Dame? UConn? these ring a bell?) and (oh yeah) membership in a "pretty good" conference.

That knocks your list down to 39, now. Even if you take the top four teams from the Big 10, the ACC, the SEC and the Big 12 (yes, not a traditional basketball power, but good support for Kansas and Texas, among others), your list is now down to 23 (and I am sure that you can go deeper in those conferences than the top four). Is Bradley one of the top 23 remaining? I would suggest not.

One of the problems that I constantly see here at BF is a tremendous disconnect with reality. This is 2011, not the 1950s or even the 1980s. We are five years removed from the last real success of a Bradley basketball squad, and some people even complain about that because the team only finished fourth in the conference and didn't win the MVC tournament.

In your other thread regarding "Princeton v. Bradley," I pointed out that, since 1990, Princeton has been to the NCAAs nine times versus Bradley's two. Another poster pointed out that, as far as conference rankings go, the MVC is twelfth in the nation versus the Ivy League's fifteenth. These aren't great on either side and certainly do not reach "pretty good" status (they are around the middle, in acuality).

Here's what Bradley is: an excellent academic institution in a solid conference that has not been successful in its high profile sport (basketball) in the last thirty years. Whoever the new coach will be will have a hard road to run because we aren't one of the Top 50 jobs in the country and, considering our recent lack of success, may not even be Top 100.

Great Post, I love BU but not even a chance we are a top 50 coaching job.

[Buesch N Chips]

One of the problems that I constantly see here at BF is a tremendous disconnect with reality. This is 2011, not the 1950s or even the 1980s. We are five years removed from the last real success of a Bradley basketball squad, and some people even complain about that because the team only finished fourth in the conference and didn't win the MVC tournament.

Level headed people realize what we are and what we are not. With the exception of Hersey Hawkins tenure on campus, we have not done any sort of consistent winning since the late 1960s. I hope it changes, but recent history is not on our side.

[Air Petey]

Everybody is forgetting this admin/board brings this job WAY down. 4-5 years ago it was a much better job. I hope a new coach does not do any research.

[Bravesfan]

Great Post, I love BU but not even a chance we are a top 50 coaching job.

Great points from you and others, but I think we could be a top 50 coaching job if we happen to get the right coach and get lucky keeping some of our current players to build around.

Remember, Gonzaga was not that big a name outside of John Stockton era, but they were built into an elite program that shows no real signs of decline. I think Bradley has the ingredients to become one of those programs, but they need the right coach to take advantage of player rich Illinois and the new facilities. And of course Bradley most of all needs some luck for things to fall into place.

I think Bradley is in the right conference for this to happen. Remember, as Bradley, Creighton, SIU and ISU red play, so goes the Valley. Bradley (and others) playing up to their potential would not only be good for Bradley, but also good for the Valley's chances of returning to the recent days of multiple bid prominance. Hopefully this will happen a lot sooner than later.

[real fan]

Thanks B4L. When you look back at it, both Molinari and JL had golden opportunities to build, to capitalize on NCAA tournament appearances though neither were able to get back to that point (in fairness to JL, Bradley probably makes at least one more NCAA trip if POB decides to stay in school).

Had Les been able to keep J.Tucker and Granger on board he could have won 2 Valley titles and more NCAA games in my opinion, once you have players of that caliber on your roster you need to figure out how to keep them happy as you cannot replace that kind of talent , maybe if he had kept one more of Mo"s asst. coaches then things could have worked out better for everyone, not saying it would have been easy to do but BU could have been a dominating team with those 2 players.

[Bravesfan]

Had Les been able to keep J.Tucker and Granger on board he could have won 2 Valley titles and more NCAA games in my opinion, once you have players of that caliber on your roster you need to figure out how to keep them happy as you cannot replace that kind of talent , maybe if he had kept one more of Mo"s asst. coaches then things could have worked out better for everyone, not saying it would have been easy to do but BU could have been a dominating team with those 2 players.

But again, this illustrates the argument against firing Les in the first place. They fired Coach Mo, and of course some of their better recruits bolted. The same thing is happening now with Remy Abel seriously looking somewhere else now. And SM has been lost too, even if he would have only been around one more year.

As I just posted on the "Federal government" thread, a new coaching hire better darn well turn the program into a major power in a hurry. If not, and the new coach has off the court issues and graduation issues with his players, then the administration will never live this down.

Now, looking at Bradley's history as has already been posted above in this thread, maybe Bradley is destined to be a Morehead St/Indiana St type of program with one or two NCAA Tournament appearances every 10 to 15 years, with a few NIT/CBI/CIT appearances in between. In other words, a decent, competitive program that has few truly bad seasons, but not a consistently great program. Fine. I can live with that because I actually do have a life outside of sports and have other more important things to worry about. But if this is the case, then why was Les fired in the first place? He was able to accomplish at least that much, and with a high graduation rate in the first place! Who's to say the next guy will be able to sustain this! Nothing against the next coach because I would be judging someone without seeing their body of work, but if the goal is just to keep Bradley competitive, then they already had their guy, and they let him go. Go figure!

[thefish7]

I think it kind of depends on what you are looking to achieve as a coach. Princeton makes it to the ncaa because they're in a weak conference that doesn't have a tournament. Best record in the ivy league equals ncaa appearance. Also, this year notwithstanding, the valley is the seventh best conference in basketball by kenpom ratings. So if you're only interested in relative team and conference performance then bu is a top half team in the best non bcs conference. Incidentally our level of performance is often higher than bottom dwellers in the bcs conferences.

From there you can look at non performance factors, in that regard bradley I think is very competitive. That includes things like endowment, facilities, arena, budget, and fan base and traditions. I wouldn't say top 50, but I might say right around 50. These factors also put us well above a lot of bcs bottom feeders.

Performance wise we've been hovering around 75 or so, but I think that our non performance factors are probably much higher. I believe bradley CAN legitimately be to 50, but that needs some positive developments... First of which is this hire. The administration must make a good one.

[ph]

I think it kind of depends on what you are looking to achieve as a coach. Princeton makes it to the ncaa because they're in a weak conference that doesn't have a tournament. Best record in the ivy league equals ncaa appearance. Also, this year notwithstanding, the valley is the seventh best conference in basketball by kenpom ratings. So if you're only interested in relative team and conference performance then bu is a top half team in the best non bcs conference. Incidentally our level of performance is often higher than bottom dwellers in the bcs conferences.

From there you can look at non performance factors, in that regard bradley I think is very competitive. That includes things like endowment, facilities, arena, budget, and fan base and traditions. I wouldn't say top 50, but I might say right around 50. These factors also put us well above a lot of bcs bottom feeders.

Performance wise we've been hovering around 75 or so, but I think that our non performance factors are probably much higher. I believe bradley CAN legitimately be to 50, but that needs some positive developments... First of which is this hire. The administration must make a good one.

Good post. There are a lot of quantifiable things that give us a legitimate top 50 program consideration. (Which IMHO is completely different than our ranking the past 20 years, which is worse)

Our greatest negatives are media market and, to an extent, conference, but I do not think there is anything overwhelming that would prevent a coach from coming here and making us a top 50 performance/ranking/RPI school year after year.

[Buesch N Chips]

In other words, a decent, competitive program that has few truly bad seasons, but not a consistently great program. Fine. I can live with that because I actually do have a life outside of sports and have other more important things to worry about. But if this is the case, then why was Les fired in the first place?

Probably due to clashes with his superiors.

[SaintLouBrave22]

but if the goal is just to keep Bradley competitive, then they already had their guy, and they let him go. Go figure!

Thing is, they got rid of him in part because of not being competitive..,

And I believe their version of competitive is a bit stronger than yours...

1 NCAAT
1 NITT

All in 9 years with no finish above 4th in conference wasn't good enough for them and frankly isn't for many of us around here, especially when you consider the doormats that Wichita State and UNI were not more than 10 years ago!

I think we being one of the best fan bases in the conference deserve much much more!

[amckillip]

Thing is, they got rid of him in part because of not being competitive..,

And I believe their version of competitive is a bit stronger than yours...

1 NCAAT
1 NITT

All in 9 years with no finish above 4th in conference wasn't good enough for them and frankly isn't for many of us around here, especially when you consider the doormats that Wichita State and UNI were not more than 10 years ago!

I think we being one of the best fan bases in the conference deserve much much more!

But compared to the rest of BU history JL delivered twice as many NCAA wins as the last 45 years prior to him. I'm not saying JL was great by any means, but to pretend he was less than what BU is used to is simply false. I'd argue he was our best coach in 50 years. (I have a pretty huge hatred for cheating...)

My point is, everything needs to be kept in perspective, and I could easily list 20 more desirable mid major jobs, let alone BCS.