Change

[Bravesfan]

I think you can pretty much count out being 11-7 in our conference and "on the bubble"
14-4 in the Valley this season won't even get you "on the bubble".

I'll take 11 wins if it's enough for the NIT at the very least. Of course I'm hoping for more, but 11 wins will seem like a great year compared to this season!

[amettrick]

wizard- if you or other posters have a comment or question you wish to direct to me personally, that is what the PM feature is for. We prefer for posts not to be used for directly questioning or challenging other posters you have an issue with.

However, I have made my stance quite clear. Change just for the sake of change is futile. There is no guarantee that change will prove more successful, and I have pointed out that such examples of change resulting in no improvement outnumber cases where such change was successful.

I have no problem with change, but to change without thoughtful consideration of all the factors is not wise. But I respect anyone else's right to their opinion.

Can you cite any examples of a coach who finished last in conference at least 9 years into his tenure and went on to turn it around at the same school?

[srw]

Can you cite any examples of a coach who finished last in conference at least 9 years into his tenure and went on to turn it around at the same school?

Real question is can you find a coach that was never over .500 for his league cumulative record that then finished dead last in year 9 and kept his job

[Braves4Life]

Real question is can you find a coach that was never over .500 for his league cumulative record that then finished dead last in year 9 and kept his job

No ,a better real question is can you find a coach that was never over .500 for his league cumulative record, was under 6 feet tall, had slicked back hair, and coached at his alma mater that then finished dead last in year 9 and kept his job.

[Da Coach]

We could really get ridiculous. Or we could also issue a challenge to find any coach in history who was fired after a season in which he lost perhaps his 2 best starters.

[Bravesfan]

We could really get ridiculous. Or we could also issue a challenge to find any coach in history who was fired after a season in which he lost perhaps his 2 best starters.

This thread already got ridiculous. I couldn't believe what I just read above your post!

[buballer82]

We could really get ridiculous. Or we could also issue a challenge to find any coach in history who was fired after a season in which he lost perhaps his 2 best starters.

I agree. I have not been a Les supporter, but I can't see firing a coach that was dealt such a blow as losing two starters within the first 5 games of season for the season. All in all, I am at least curious to see what he does next year with SM and TB coming back healthy and the new recruiting class, coupled with the vast improvement of DSE and JP.

[Bravesfan]

I agree. I have not been a Les supporter, but I can't see firing a coach that was dealt such a blow as losing two starters within the first 5 games of season for the season. All in all, I am at least curious to see what he does next year with SM and TB coming back healthy and the new recruiting class, coupled with the vast improvement of DSE and JP.

Yes, at the very least we should be much more competitive, at least finishing somewhat above .500 in the conference.

[FlyingSpaghettiMonster]

We could really get ridiculous. Or we could also issue a challenge to find any coach in history who was fired after a season in which he lost perhaps his 2 best starters.

Stan Albleck was fired when MJ was hurt.

Kings fired Theus when Kevin Martin was hurt.

Mike Dunleavy was fired with Blake Griffin out for the season and Eric Gordon out with a groin injury.

Bucks fired Terry Scotts who had to coach without Michael Redd, Villanueva, Bobby Simmons, and Mo Williams (all missed significant time due to injuries).

Nets fired Lawrence Franks after they traded Jason Kidd and Richard Jefferson and Devin Harris was injured.

The NBA has a rich history of firing coaches even when the best player (or 2) are injured. It may not be fair, but it happens. I'm sure it has happened in the NCAA, but I'm more familiar with the NBA and can find examples more readily.

Pasta be with you.

[AZ BU Fan]

I personally don't feel the need to lower the bar for JL's results at BU next year. Without injuries I keep hearing he will have the most talented/ experienced team he had since S16. If he can't find a way to translate that to victory next year, not just 10-11-12 wins but VICTORY, when will he ever?

What keeps bouncing around in my pea brain is his oft stated comments, my players aren't buying in, they aren't committing to defense, they make mistakes at critical times with turnovers, forced/bad shots, they practice well but can't translate that to the game, they aren't playing hard for 40 minutes, they aren't playing for the team but themselves.

Exactly what in JL is going to change next year, or whenever, in order for these critical problems to go away in the future with his teams? After 9 years should these continue to be chronic issues with his teams?

[amettrick]

My original question was not that ridiculous. It's about precedent.

We all want the same thing here in the end, which is a winning program, so the question becomes simple. Is there any precedent for a coach this deep into his time at a program finishing dead last and still turning the program into a winning one?

If the answer is yes, then fine. Les can stay and turn things around.

If the answer is no, then Les would be trying to do something that no coach, regardless of situation, has been able to accomplish. If that's the case then a change should be made.

The argument you've used in favor of keeping JL is that a new coach doesn't guarantee wins. Fair enough, but if history tells us that a coach in JL's position has never been able to reverse course and have success then history is, in all likelyhood, going to repeat itself.

[Da Coach]

The reason I disagree so strongly with this logic, is that Bradley's decline this year has a lot to do with the season-long injuries to key players, the lack of depth it resulted in, and the guys having to play out of position.
If the decline was solely due to poor performance or poor recruiting, then I think your point is valid. But to compare Jim Les' situation with other coaches who simply were not effective with their coaching or recruiting, or got old or or didn't care anymore is not a fair comparison.

[tornado]

Here's a thought -- in numerous other situaitons where a head coach was "embattled" and on the "hot seat"...such as at SIU, at Iowa State last year jjst ahead of McDermott being urged to go, and even here in the few months before Jim Molinari was fired, and like at Illinois a few years ago before Weber started landing the 5-Star kids like Richmond & Leonard....

in each case....in an effort to keep the press from hounding with questions every day, writing less than complimentary words, and hurting the recruiting...
that the administration -- even in those cases where the coach WAS eventually going to be fired.....
still came out with strong words of support and stood by their head coach...

Does not everyone recall the strong support Ron Guenther gave Bruce Weber even though it was pretty well known Bruce was only a hair away from being replaced??? And some might even recall (and even Coach Mo reminded me of this) that Broski spoke in support and said Mo would be given at least another year right up until just days before he was fired...

I would like to see our own administration give the same kind of commonly expected and proper support to our guys -- especially given that half the basketball coaching staff are THEIR people now......is it asking too much?

[thefish7]

If Les has a bad year next year, even with injuries he should be let go. If he's let go this season I'll understand, and if he is retained I'll understand. My own opinion is that I think he probably should be given a one more shot to do it with his guys next year. I hate losing but I think next year post graduation of sm and tb is a better time to make a change if appropriate.

[Braves4Life]

I would like to see our own administration give the same kind of commonly expected and proper support to our guys -- especially given that half the basketball coaching staff are THEIR people now......is it asking too much?

The fact that they have not speaks volumes.......