Ugly game of the day

[tornado]

OK, but at Toledo, that "bottoming out" has lasted 3 seasons since the coaching change, and the end it nowhere in sight. They are not just bottoming out, but a real embarrassment. Not comparable to our situation where the team underperformed, mostly due to unprecedented injury issues.

Kowalczyk thinks he has a better group coming in -- but his four incoming recruits are all four extremely obscure and either unrated or ZERO-stars.

[AZ BU Fan]

On the other hand, is there any recent precedence of a Mid Major coach with 9+ years of experience with one program who hasn't finished in his Conference's top 3 yet, turning it around and winning his Conference/Post Season Tournament at the same program?

[BU RICK]

JMO

four guard offense
friend during ISU game..."he can't guard a 6-9 player"
they play out of position
rarely in position for a rebound
offensive scheme
willing to try something new
ever try playing 3 bigs at a time once this year
lose close games -
blow substantial leads -
I can see why people want change
I like JL
the players will stay
I hope the recruits come, they will help
I'll support whatever happens.

[cpacmel]

This part we agree on.
But we have posters citing cases where they say firing a coach lead to a great turnaround, and then they give us examples like Missouri State, which is still a work-in-progress at best.

Da Coach, how can you say that Missouri State is a work in progress at best?

The Bears are tied for the lead in the conference and can win it outright with a victory on Saturday in Springfield.

The worst they can finish is 2nd place. And this is only Martin's 3rd season.

Greg Lansing has finished 3rd in the MVC this year. It's his first season at Indiana State.

[squirrelgotdead]

Da Coach, how can you say that Missouri State is a work in progress at best?

The Bears are tied for the lead in the conference and can win it outright with a victory on Saturday in Springfield.

The worst they can finish is 2nd place. And this is only Martin's 3rd season.

Greg Lansing has finished 3rd in the MVC this year. It's his first season at Indiana State.

Trust us. We know a work in progress when we see one.

[canadian]

This part we agree on.
But we have posters citing cases where they say firing a coach lead to a great turnaround, and then they give us examples like Missouri State, which is still a work-in-progress at best. It is only fair to point out there are many cases that are not successful. That's all. Why are you and others right in this thread trying so hard to deny that this case is a relevant similarity to where we are now?

Because I don't see the Toledo situation and Bradley situation similar at all. To me, Missouri State is a far more relevant example.

I've stated why. Toledo has had three coaches in about three, four years. One coach was let go for "off the court" stuff, not results related stuff. Tod K. is in his first year.

At Bradley we are talking about one coach in place for nine years. Not at all similar to Toledo. As I said, MSU firing Barry Hinson to go with Cuonzo Martin is a far, far, far more similar case.

[canadian]

On the other hand, is there any recent precedence of a Mid Major coach with 9+ years of experience with one program who hasn't finished in his Conference's top 3 yet, turning it around and winning his Conference/Post Season Tournament at the same program?

Honestly, no. There are very few mid-majors with standards of winning where a coach is allowed to stay 9+ years without winning at least half his games in his own league.

[srw]

Why not look at past coaching changes at BU?

Stowell v. Versace - definite upgrade.
Versace v. Albeck - different circumstances, but definite downgrade.
Albeck v. Molinari - upgrade
Molinari v. Les - honestly about equal?

I can't really speak further back than Stowell.

Isn't the average coaching tenure somewhere in the 6-8 year range?

I love you for that range.

Sometimes change for change sake is good.

Its time for new blood.

This of course isnt all JL's fault. But I think we need change. I hope its coming.

Da Coach and others don't. Thats ok too...

[Da Coach]

Sometimes change for change sake is good.....

Da Coach and others don't. Thats ok too...

I am definitely not a fan of "change for change sake". I can't believe that you are really saying that you are.

It is only logical, and intelligent to look at every possible issue and circumstance before making a major move like a coaching change.

As I have asked elsewhere, where are all the examples of a coach in the MVC or similar situation being fiired and replaced, and making a major difference? Name one that made it to the NCAA inside of 4 or 5 years?

[tornado]

Name one that made it to the NCAA inside of 4 or 5 years?

none except JL has done that since Turgeon & Dana hired in the 90's and it still took them 4-5 years

[cpacmel]

I am definitely not a fan of "change for change sake". I can't believe that you are really saying that you are.

It is only logical, and intelligent to look at every possible issue and circumstance before making a major move like a coaching change.

As I have asked elsewhere, where are all the examples of a coach in the MVC or similar situation being fiired and replaced, and making a major difference? Name one that made it to the NCAA inside of 4 or 5 years?

none except JL has done that since Turgeon & Dana hired in the 90's and it still took them 4-5 years

How about McDermott at UNI? He was dancing in years 3, 4 and 5.

[Braves4Life]

But we have posters citing cases where they say firing a coach lead to a great turnaround, and then they give us examples like Missouri State, which is still a work-in-progress at best.

SAY WHAT?!

As I have asked elsewhere, where are all the examples of a coach in the MVC or similar situation being fiired and replaced, and making a major difference? Name one that made it to the NCAA inside of 4 or 5 years?

It's probably going to happen at WSU and/or MSU this year. Hasn't it happened with Chris Lowery? -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Lowery

Ben Jacobson? (year 3) -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Jacobson

Greg McDermott? (year3 at UNI and possibly year 2 at CU) -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_McDermott

There are probably more.... I'm too lazy to check.. I hope we'll be adding Bradley to this list soon.

Here's a question: How many coaches who failed to win a conference championship in their first 9 years ever went on to win one for the same team?

Hint: I don't know that answer.

[AZ BU Fan]

If this is open game....

Again as I have asked elsewhere,

"On the other hand, is there any recent precedence of a Mid Major coach with 9+ years of experience with one program who hasn't finished in his Conference's top 3 yet, turning it around winning his Conference/Post Season Tournament at the same program? "

[amckillip]

Here's a question: How many coaches who failed to win a conference championship in their first 9 years ever went on to win one for the same team?

Hint: I don't know that answer.

If this is open game....

Again as I have asked elsewhere,

"On the other hand, is there any recent precedence of a Mid Major coach with 9+ years of experience with one program who hasn't finished in his Conference's top 3 yet, turning it around winning his Conference/Post Season Tournament at the same program? "

Did you two plan this?

[squirrelgotdead]

As I have asked elsewhere, where are all the examples of a coach in the MVC or similar situation being fiired and replaced, and making a major difference? Name one that made it to the NCAA inside of 4 or 5 years?

Royce Waltman. Years 3 and 4.

Maybe that's not a good example. Or maybe it is.